Rescind Rev 2.0: Dump Doyle Now!

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by SoccerMan94043, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. blurryblue

    blurryblue Member+

    May 25, 2013
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Why do we even need a separate GM? Clearly that was a problem with our previous coach. The Dynamo don't have one, splitting up the responsibility among several lower level staff. My understanding is that neither do LA, SKC or a number of other successful teams. We could have a VP in charge of scouting like those teams. So if Kinnear does come back to San Jose, I could see Doyle becoming President and leaving most of the technical stuff to his good buddy.

    I'd want to see how Cabrera does with Chivas this year before getting on his bandwagon. No point dumping Watson for some other shlock who has proven nothing at the MLS level. Indeed, I firmly believe that Watson should be given a few more months with specific emphasis on his ability to be flexible and try different things when the same old isn't working. That's something Yallop wasn't willing to do, or was simply too tired to try anymore, and I'm not sure there are a lot of coaches out there who could succeed under the circumstances. In the end it comes down to support from ownership, and if you aren't getting it, there isn't much you can do. Hopefully that changes with the new stadium.
     
  2. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I would prefer a separate GM and coach for the simple fact that if you lose one, you don't lose both. The GM should be the authority for personnel decisions, style of play and youth development. All of the soccer operations branches would hopefully have a unified goal in producing/finding players that work with an overall system that the GM thinks will work best to win as many games as possible. It's one of the reasons I'm a little more lenient on the front office than some because the Quakes simply haven't had everything in place yet. As more infrastructure gets put into place, the on field results will hopefully follow.

    The coaches role, in my mind, is to reinforce the overall team ideals on the field with the first team. They might have valuable input on player acquisition and selection, but there is a good reason to have them as two distinct positions, I think.
     
  3. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How should I know? Baseball sucks...
     
  5. fadedtoblack

    fadedtoblack Member+

    Nov 6, 2007
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personally, I'm not a huge fan of former players as GM's. Case in point, Michael Jordan, great player...Bobcats are brutal. Wayne Gretzky, great player, ran the Coyotes into the ground.

    I'd rather have a life long scout/talent evaluator (i.e. Niners' Trent Baalke) with an MBA that can analyze salary v. performance and play salary cap hard ball. I want a GM that views players as commodities not people. Ex-players, will always have a players mentality. The 'I need to make as much money as I can while I can, and theGM is trying to fleece me from it' mentality.

    Could Joe Cannon be ruthless, could he trade Wondo if the situation called for it, or would he rather be buddy-buddy, and give a player the benefit of the doubt?
     
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  6. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't need to watch baseball to know there are 162 games of boredom that determine the DIVISIONAL winner and then in October the A's are so bored that they shit the bed in crunch time.
     
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  7. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly...
     
  8. blurryblue

    blurryblue Member+

    May 25, 2013
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    what's with all the trolls lately?
     
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  9. DotMPP

    DotMPP 'Quakes fan in Stumptown

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 29, 2004
    SE Portland, OR
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope not you... You are funny... I think the red neck who does not like fat ugly dudes in blue and black to be shirtless behind the goal...
     
  10. IBleedTeal

    IBleedTeal Member+

    Jun 2, 2001
    Yves Fiat
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    #160 IBleedTeal, Apr 8, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
    What does your current organization share with that team that won a championship 25 years ago.

    Not a single ********ing thing outside of their team name and a few members of the fanbase.
    Throwing out "But we were champions in the 70's and 1989" is like using the 2001 and 2003 MLS Cups to say we're on the right track as an organization.

    Different owner, different GM, different players, different mentality.



    The AAA's had the highest payroll in baseball in the late 80's.
    Then Walter Haas died and your franchise has been a complete pile of shit for the last twenty years.

    I'd like to remind you that your patron saint Billy Beane's teams have done nothing but come up short in his entire existence leading front office. It took him 10 years to put together a team that could win a playoff series, and then they got swept in the next round. They've played in ONE semi-final and ZERO championships. He's notorious for putting together teams that cannot get it done. Probably the most overrated executive in all of sports.

    You guys are 1-7 in playoff series under your current leadership.
    But yeah, let's keep hearing about 1989.
     
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  11. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You guys almost have me, and then I remind myself of that great 2010 Colorado Rapid championship team.
     
  12. IBleedTeal

    IBleedTeal Member+

    Jun 2, 2001
    Yves Fiat
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Thanks for the LOL and enjoy the sewage.
     
  13. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exception, not the rule. I know it's hard.
     
  14. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was thinking Garth Lagerwey. You know, former player in our league, now GM of one of the most successful teams in the league.

    Peter Vermes of course was an MLS player, then KC GM, now KC GM and Head Coach.

    Frank of course, is head coach and GM at Chitcago, but we don't know if he's up to it or not yet. (I expect not, but I could be wrong.

    Dave Kasper at DCU is a former player, though only USL.

    Klopas is head coach and director of player personnel at L'Impact, it's his first year. He was somewhat successful in both roles at Chitcago for three seasons.

    Mike Burns is the GM for the CounterRevs. We could argue that his owners are cheapskates, but he's in his third season as their GM. He's brought in some decent players and definitely cleaned house.

    Andy Roxburgh with the Red Cows is a former player, albeit in Europe.

    For the CheeseSteaks, Hackworth and Rob Vartughian seem to share the GM responsibilities as well as coaching the team. Both are former players in the A-League/USL.

    Gavin Wilkinson with the TreeKillers is a former player. Decent GM, lousy coach.

    Greg Vanney is assistant GM with the Hosers, and clearly, a former player.

    So, I think former players might make good GM's in our league. There are weird rules, and odd ways of signing players. Someone who's been through that might know a lot about it.

    Doesn't mean that TheJoe would make a good GM. He might, but then he might not.

    So you figure that once hired as GM, no former player would read Soccernomics?

    It's hard to say, and I'm not saying that we should take that chance. Just that I like to think he'd be good.

    But I'd talk to Johnny Moore first, or maybe see if I could snag Greg Vanney. I'd ask Tim Hanley too, and I might tap him to be my head coach.

    Whatever, I'd definitely make some changes, but then, I'd have done that years ago.

    go quakes!!
    Fire MW and JD!!

    - Mark
     
  15. fadedtoblack

    fadedtoblack Member+

    Nov 6, 2007
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would Antonio Ribeiro and Mike Zaher still be starting in your little world too? ;)
     
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  16. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    NO.

    Ribeiro was never good enough.
    Zaher we should have kept, but Morrow would have supplanted him at some point.

    Your question also presupposes that I'd have made the same mistakes as JD and Yallop (or made the same good moves). Clearly, I, you, Wee Man, or anyone else would have made different moves, made different mistakes, and have done some things much better. This has been a poorly run team since day one.

    I would undoubtedly have signed different players, and drafted different players. How many on this forum second guess our drafting? Corben Bone? Luis Da Silva? There are plenty of guys many of us would have drafted differently. I would have kept Ampai longer, and I'd have played him at a-mid. I might have loaned him to a lower division side too, given him some meaningful minutes before he was ready for first team duty.

    Also, I'd raid the rosters of Central American teams. See who does well in CCL matches against MLS competition, and then get a couple of those guys.

    I'd prowl Easter Europe for players too. If I had found Abu Tommy (or he had found us) I'd have kept him. He's another guy that would have needed work, but certainly had the raw material to work with.

    And if you had been GM or El Presidente, would you have kept Yallop beyond the '09 season?! We were abysmal that year, following a wooden spoon finish in '08. Sure, we did better in '10, but we sucked hard again in '11. Would you have kept Frank? and or JD? Remember the Zura fiasco? Or the three games where we had a man advantage and couldn't must a shot on goal? Of course, had Alioto or Kaval sacked one or both of JD and Frank, we'd have missed out on the glorious '12 season. Still, it would have been the prudent move.

    Oh, and I'd have worked out a partnership with a Central American side. A club we could buy players from and sell players to. A partnership with a Central American side would allow us to more easily scout Central American players. And how's that partnership with Tottenham working out? We got a couple of guys from them right? No wait, we didn't.

    It's impossible to say how thing would have turned out had we made different decisions years ago, but we've had six seasons and we've made the playoffs only twice. We could do better.

    go quakes!!
    Fire JD and MW!!

    - Mark
     
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  17. bigdumbgod

    bigdumbgod Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #167 bigdumbgod, Apr 9, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
    Never heard about The Joe being anything other than one who players respect and admire. Mixed reviews on JD in that department.

    Edit: I would err on the side of Joe having the balls as a GM to tell players anything he wants, without hesitation. Different deal being not on the team, and away from the organization for a little while, then coming back into it in a significantly different role.

    Joe and Johnny need to be a part of a SJE revival.
     
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  18. IBleedTeal

    IBleedTeal Member+

    Jun 2, 2001
    Yves Fiat
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Looks like Herm Edwards was at the facility today...
    [​IMG]

    Dear Kaval: That's not what we meant when we said we want to bring in a guy with "professional football" head coaching experience.
     
  19. Calnorth

    Calnorth New Member

    Jul 30, 2008
    By the end of the season this thread will be buried in the archives.
     
  20. blurryblue

    blurryblue Member+

    May 25, 2013
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Let's hope so.
     
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  21. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only if it's because we're bitching about the new coach.

    go quakes!!
    Fire JD and MW!!

    - Mark
     
  22. IBleedTeal

    IBleedTeal Member+

    Jun 2, 2001
    Yves Fiat
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Challenge accepted.
     
  23. ant0n

    ant0n Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Uhh why?
     
  24. blurryblue

    blurryblue Member+

    May 25, 2013
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    New salary figures are enlightening. For example, Gorlitz+Barklage is costing us about same as Beitashour. Nice work FO! :thumbsdown:
     
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  25. soccerbone

    soccerbone Member+

    Apr 12, 2002
    Los Altos, Ca
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    leocal11 repped this.

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