FIFA slams Corinthians' Itaquera stadium for the 2014 World Cup

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Century's Best, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. Century's Best Member

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Location:
    USA
    My rivalry with Corinthians as a SPFC fan aside, I never understood why a stadium like Morumbi, which was not too far from FIFA standards, was cast aside for a venue which does not even exist. Now comes word that a FIFA report said that the Corinthians venue in Itaquera has far more "restrictions" than others such as Maracanã itself (which is undergoing work for the 2014 World Cup).

    A news blurb from Folha de SP says the following:

    - Amongst the 109 related restrictions are the number of seats and even the stadium's structure, which is defined as of "low quality." To host the opening match, FIFA demands enough seating for a minimum of 60,000 fans. Currently, the Itaquera stadium only hosts 59,842 seats. This would disqualify the venue from even hosting a semifinal match.

    - The number of seats is "tight," considering seats that may be unusable for camera platforms and press studios.

    - The area reserved for the media is a problem in itself - the report states it is "unacceptable that the press corps area be right behind a goal line."

    - FIFA demands all venues to be ready by July 2013 the latest. Itaquera's stadium won't be ready by then.

    I really hope Brazil does a good job w/ its venues. Kyocera Arena in Curitiba, Mineirão in BH, Maracanã in RJ, and Beira-Rio in PA (as far as I know it's been worked on for quite some time now) are all undergoing renovations.

    Even Palmeiras with its Arena Palestra Itália, scheduled for completion in November 2012 (with plenty of time for it to host games in early-mid 2013 for Palmeiras and local competitions in preparation for the 2013 Confeds Cup) and Grêmio with its Arena Tricolor (scheduled for completion in March 2013, thus technically allowing Grêmio to host Campeonato Gaucho games and possibly 2013 Libertadores matches, if Grêmio is in the tournament as well as possibly 2013 Confeds Cup games) are going to offer solid and viable venues for the 2014 World Cup. Everybody wins - Palmeiras and Grêmio will have new, modern stadiums; much revenue will be generated; and, Brazil will be closer to being ready to host both the 2013 Confeds and the 2014 World Cup.

    But at the same time I can't help but be concerned w/ Itaquera. If the project was truly superior in every way to Morumbi, then for Brazil's sake I'd accept it. But it's not! And it's already February 2011. If the new stadiums Palmeiras and Grêmio are building were started in 2010 (the latter in September; I'm not sure when Palmeiras began work on its stadium), then when will Itaquera's stadium go from paper to at least actual work???
          
  2. leonidas Moderator

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2005
    Location:
    Cobble Hill / Brooklyn / NY
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    i think in the end, FIFA will make an exception to Morumbi and it will host the stadium.

    the other possibility will be the palmeiras new stadium, although i'm hoping for morumbi because of it's history and size.
  3. Denilson70 Member

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
    I have serious concerns Brazil will be playing catchup as the months elapse.
  4. celito Member+

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    I thought the problem with Morumbi was that Sao Paulo couldn't secure financing to do the necessary renovations.
  5. leonidas Moderator

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2005
    Location:
    Cobble Hill / Brooklyn / NY
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    i thought it was some crap about there not being enough luxury boxes, nearby parking, and adequate space in the surrounding stadium for media trailers.
  6. celito Member+

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    I think those were issues as well. Specially the parking. If I remember right (I've been there a hand full of times when I was young), Morumbi has no real parking lot. But who knows what kind of politics are being played behind the scenes.
  7. AcesHigh Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Novo Hamburgo
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Country:
    Brazil
    FIFA slammed Morumbi with reason. And now its slamming Itaquera with reason.

    FIFA never discarded Morumbi in favor of Itaquera. FIFA discarded Morumbi because Morumbi was inadequate in many aspects and São Paulo didnt show the financial garantees to change what was needed, plus there were many other problems in the project.

    Itaquera is following the same path.

    In the end, the most probably thing is that São Paulo wont have the opening of the World Cup, and the stadium in São Paulo will be the Palestra Italia, which is being reformed and will qualify under FIFA´s requirements (but not for an opening)
  8. urubudagavea New Member

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2009
    Location:
    setor verde
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
    In my opinion this whole thing was all a political game between Ricardo Teixeira, Andrés Sanchez and Juvenal. I think that Morumbi is the most viable option instead of some fantasy cúrinthians stadium that will never ever be built. Mark my word, the stadium in Itaquera will just pass as a fantasy just like the other millions of corinthians stadium projects that came before it.

    If FIFA doesn't want to go back to the logical solution which would be Morumbi then they should really consider the new palestra italia or even remodeling Pacaembu Stadium which has an excellent location in the city. That is a great place to watch a game. Even the subway is close to the stadium.

    I think in the end São Paulo will lose the opening cerimonies to Maracanã. This political yin yang has eaten up too much time.
  9. Century's Best Member

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Location:
    USA
    Agreed, Urubu. The World Cup is 3 1/2 years away; the Confeds is 2 1/2 years away. WHAT progress does this Itaquera stadium have to show so far?

    And I found the actual list FIFA prepared of the 109 deficiencies:

    1- The drawings presented do not represent FIFA color codes and enough details to be checked

    2- Better define on Site Plan: CDA, STC, AC, Youth Program, and Volunteer Center. Define Outer and Inner Perimeter, Mag and Bag and Remote Search park

    3- Take into account the existing topography of the site and immediate surroundings. They are not leveled. So, take this into consideration for hospitality areas location, pedestrian bridges, etc.

    4- Net capacity, as the numbers are described, does not fit with the 60.000 minimum as per Hosting and Stadium Agreements for Opening/Semi and Final matches (Net is currently 59.842, based on the table sent)

    5- Capacity number is tight considering number of possible seat kills due to camera platforms, Pres. Studios, Visibility, etc

    6- Most of the GA public will be located on lower tier north and south (if hospitality seats are to be allocated on east side) and on upper tier, where most of them will be seated on demountable temporary stands. We need a complete detail of this type of temporary solution. Temporary stands are located on upper stand North and South. A strange geometry of the upper tier make it non complete on the West stand, where the gap could be filled with additional temporary or legacy seats

    7- The proposed roof is too short for the west part of the stand as probably VIP seats will be located closer to the pitch than it is demonstrated in their plan. CAT 1 will be unroofed if allocated in lower part of the lower tier, closer to the pitch. Also, 40% of the public will be located with no roof over (considering a perpendicular line). Seats uncovered: Lower level 12.890 seats (North 2.040 seats, South 2040, West 4022, East 3516, Corners 1272) Upper level 14.388 seats (North 4843, North Corner 2.171, South 4.843, Corner south 4.843, East 360)

    8- The site plan design sent is only a preliminary and unofficial one. It shows two main public transport access through two subway stations and a new road system to be implemented (road enlargements, new bridges, level passageways, etc)

    9- There should be probably one or two pedestrian bridges to connect the stadium access and podium to the subway station

    10- There are some available free areas and also some proposal of using internal building areas for some of the hospitality needs. Parking can be an issue, although some parking lots exist around

    11- Need to study the different constituent groups access and logistic + security compounds needs

    12- The unique possibility for public access is from West side. This requires a delicate and well detailed flow (traffic and people) study, considering the temporary structures and areas for the event and legacy mode uses

    (clique em continua para ler a lista completa)

    13- We have studied and tested the sightlines and noted that the current “C value” (7cm) is not aligned with the minimum recommendation that is 9cm. 12cm is the ideal value. We are suggesting a new profile, taking the opportunity for correcting the “C value” and also creating a new skyboxes area located at the end of the lower tier, as we do need new hospitality seats

    14- The drawings showed to be in a very preliminary phase of development. A more detailed set of drawings is needed combining all comments from the Technical Team (FIFA/LOC). Many rooms are not represented and the flows are confusing due to an apparent club oriented design instead of a FIFA event design. This can be noted with the total concentration o west stand for the skyboxes and a simple and cheap design/construction and architecture for the north, south and east stands. An issue, under our point of view, is the level of finishes and material+ design that will be used. Some areas need to be in a high standard and based on what we have discussed with the Club architects and contractors involved; their idea is to minimize costs in all areas. This can compromise the level of experience and atmosphere of the event, specially for some specific constituent groups

    15- 370 car places available. Net area of 16.275sqm. The SMC (Stadium Media Center), proposed area has 7.192m².

    16- 540 car places available. Net area of 12.895sqm.

    17- How is the access control to main stands on north and south areas? This is not presented on plans

    18- Detail Changing Room levels. The plan does not show internal lay out

    19- Areas are not designated by official names and it is difficult to conclude for something

    20- Competition area does not seem very large and also there are a few parking spaces in this level (they are located in the two lower levels)

    21- Logistic areas for this level seems too big and this will have to be redesigned

    22- Access to the mixed zone from the Media Area need to be improved not to conflict with players flow (corridor and bus parking)

    23- Some more parking spaces will be needed in this area There should be access to and from SMC (located one level below) and TV Compound. This can be achieved by using two stairs and elevators (west and south areas of this floor

    24- VIP: Ok for lower Tier location. Number of seats should be calculated as at least 10% more than the last requirements number = 1350 x 1,10 = 1.485 seats. So, need revision on that allocation of seats. CAT 1 seats will be placed probably adjacent to VIP on lower level. Hospitality seats on this lower tier to be considered in the calculation

    25- VIP drop of is suggested to be on Service Level B2. In this case, the stair and elevator will be shared with VVIPs. If this is not allowed, we have to create another way of accessing the VIP lounge, probably from the ground level, where we should propose a drop off and direct access from the main stair outside.

    26- VIP seats: They have to be on lower stand, west, but number to be increased in the figure to 1500 people. Calculate the roof limit as VIPs cannot be unroofed

    27- VIP lounge also has to be redesigned and integrated with elevator/stair access. WCs and balcony areas to be created for catering

    28- VVIP: Suggestion of location on the Lower suites level and not on upper suites level. OK for number of seats, in principle. But need revision in the design if allocated on Lower suites

    29- VVIP drop off is suggested to be located at the competitions level, centralized

    30- VVIP access in being done by elevators via drop off on the same level as players drop off (service level B3). Ok for this drop of but a return for cars should be provided or a direct ramp connection to the lower level for VVIP parking and fast connection.

    31- VVIP seats: Suggestion to move VVIP seats from upper suites level to the lower suites level. This will keep VVIP closer to VIP and also closer to their drop off point. VVIP lounge is also easier to dispose in the lower level than in upper level where we have only skyboxes. VVIP lounge also has to be redesigned and integrated with elevator/stair access. WCs and balcony areas to be created for catering and special rooms for FIFA president and LOC president. The central open area in the slab at this level that appear in the design has to be covered for the event operation (check security and load in this areas).

    32- Total number of seats seems ok (8% of 65.359 is 5.229 seats and they are proposing 5.771). The total number proposed inside skyboxes is also above the 30% recommended. The problem is that all hospitality seats suggested in their drawings are located on the lower tier, where is not possible to have skyboxes as per their table capacity. So this need to be corrected and will certainly demand more sky boxes to accommodate, at least, around 350 additional people. We strongly recommend that there should be provided more skyboxes. Suggested location could be at the end of lower tier on the east sector (similar to
    Durban Stadium solution) and also expand through corner direction the number of boxes on west upper suites level. Hospitality seats outside skyboxes should have at least 3660 seats. This will demand not only an adaption of west lower tier sector but also an allocation of hospitality sector on east side of this tier.

    33- Stadium west area can be accessed directly from the tent through the and Lounge Access west lower tier and up to the suites level. East area also can be accessed directly from the hospitality tents, passing through the stadium podium

    34- Lower suites level and Upper suites level should be dedicated for inside boxes hospitality, with exception of central part of lower suites (dedicated to VVIP). This will count approximately 1094 seats. To cover the 30% of skyboxes seats, there should be 1.570 seats. The missing ones should be located on east stand.

    35- In order to comply with the 8% over gross capacity, there should be seats 5.230 hospitality seats total. Discounting the 30% inside boxes, we have 3.660 seats missing. This can be allocated on west lower tier, on east lower tier or on both locations. In this case, number of hospitality seats can be increased. A lounge can easily be done on east side and we recommend, even for legacy mode, where they can have a different ticketing price for this sector.

    36- Lounge for Hospitality west seems ok, since some adaptations to be and circulation flow done after locating VIP and VVIP lounges. Suggestion of having a hospitality sector in east side (lower tier) plus additional sky boxes

    37- Main proposed areas on West (aprox 30.000sqm) and East. East divided Hospitality Villages into two areas. One located around and in front of to be constructed building (area round 30.000sqm), and other proposed to be the interior of a new exhibition/convention center, in two levels of 15.000sqm each evel.

    38- Youth Program could be located in the competition level and probably ceremonies areas also. We need to find a place for that. The other levels on the west stand are being used for parking and the atmosphere will not be good for the kids.

    39- CDA are being suggested on stadium podium, around north and east sectors. Other areas can be located around the podium , between outer and inner perimeter.

    40- Small tents can be mounted inside inner perimeter, depending on the marketing approach, but we will have probably space for that option, if necessary

    41- Signage Rooms and Storage can be accommodated on the competitions level and two levels below, where we have a parking lot (underground) with 504 car places available or 12.895sqm . Also some areas close to the stadium podium need to be allocated as storage (specially containers)

    42- F&B Concessions need a complete restructure. The need of hospitality lounge on east can lead to a remodeling of this area for F&B Concessions. North and South F&B that serve the lower stand are located one level below but the drawings do not show the F&B concessions for the future temporary stands (upper stands North and South). Concourse space for F&B on upper stand East seems to be tight and queuing might be a problem, together with sanitary queuing.

    43- Food and Beverage for temporary stands to be located on upper concourse. This is not shown on plans

    44- Some options of locating the STC and AC were designated. Need FIFA inputs

    45- Not identified, suggestion to be located in the lower parking level or in some temporary structure outside, on east side

    46- Better define turnstiles location in order to study possible CDA location around the stadium podium outside

    47- STA and PTA need to comply with the requirements and also need to be present in the next revision. As the stadium seems to be a very simple and cheap structure on the East, North and South sides, even with no basements, the redundancy purposes and net/cabling distribution from external data feed need to be carefully studied

    48- Also not identified in plans, need better clarification on next design review

    49- There should be access to and from SMC (located one level below) and TV Compound. This can be achieved by using two stairs and elevators (west and south areas of this floor)

    50- Media Tribune Location is 100% on upper tier west. As upper tier is not so high (only 25 steps) on West Side, this will lead the media area away
    from the corners. Please advise if this is ok. Media Tribune Capacity are in accordance with last requirements demand

    51- SMC is being suggested to be located on parking space, Service Level B2. This is an existing floor, designated to parking for legacy mode. An adaption for people working place and office space should be done, with air conditioning and local authority’s safety and comfort requirements. The access should be done through stairs, located in the south part to the Media parking and West to the TV Compound. The South stair can be used most by photographers (pitch access) and by those who access from outside (Media Parking). The West stair can lead up to the Media Tribune, Mixed Zone, PCR and TV Studios

    52- Need lay out details, location seem to be ok for access and circulation

    53- Confirm usable area, minimum 600 sqm, seems small

    54- Proposed on a free area outside (open air) with direct access via a stair/elevator to the SMC, MZ, PCR and TV Studios

    55- Located on upper part of the tribune with limited access. It is suggested to create a dedicated access to this level

    56- Need to be located and arranged around media seats. A better tribune detail seat location is demanded

    57- Locate TV Studios and PCR, so that the players flow does not match with media and TV.

    58- Commentary Control Room to be located, below Media Tribune

    59- Locate VOC (Venue Operation Center), as a suggestion, on room number 7.10 or 7.50

    60- Guarantee emergency access to the pitch through emergency doors in each gangway;

    61- Provide final crowd flow report in a standard format with technical responsibility assigned by the Company/Professional that have issued it. Certify that design will follow the crowd flow report recommendation regarding building evacuation and others. The final report should consider turnstiles location, M&Bs and queue design

    62- Check São Paulo Fire Brigade Norm IT-12 compliance. The design presents some flow distances above norm limits.

    63- Issue main equipments basic specifications in order to assure quality alignments with demands for the event (Parameters issued by LOC). The current specs did not include and specify LED giant screens, pitch lighting, pitch construction and seats;

    64- The proposed location for the IT Compound meets the requirement; the total usable space and layout will need to be reviewed.

    65- The possible locations of the Turnstiles and the Ticketing clearing points (TCP) are not represented. Turnstiles location needed to be defined in order to study possible CDA location around the stadium podium outside. TCP need better clarification for the next design review

    66- The document shows a possible usage of the Technical school as FIFA/LOC Offices and Volunteers support area. The design of the network to reach this facility will depend on the option chosen for the location of the STC/AC centers and other facilities that will require IT
    services.

    67- The logistic compound is not represented in the diagram

    68- The IT technical areas are not represented (PTAs, STAs, etc). The locations of these rooms depends on legacy IT infrastructure as well as the areas where IT services are needed. We will have to also take into account the access issue during the match days. Cable trays and pathways will be needed to connect the technical areas in the stadium as well as the facilities outside of the arena. As the stadium seems to be a very simple structure on the East, North and South sides (no basements) the redundancy requirements and network cabling distribution from external data feed need to be carefully evaluated.

    69- Stadium Ticketing Centre (STC) and Accreditation Centre (AC): Some options of locating the STC and AC were designated. Input will be needed to determine best option.

    70- Volunteer Centre: Suggestion is provided that this is to be located in the lower parking level or in some temporary structure outside, on east side. Location will need to be reviewed by LOC and FIFA.

    71- Stadium and precinct Drawing are not covering requirement in detail and many the level of quality is very basic

    72- Ticketing and hospitality capacities are not fitting with the targeted Opening and Semi Final Matches

    73- We agree on all comments and most of the change requests are in line with the requirement

    74- Considering the Stadium being all new the changes requested in term of the Seating design have to amend the plans to avoid any restricted view seats.

    75- Considering the high level of quality requested to welcome the Opening Match we need to get granted the highest level of quality for the large quantity of Modular seats.

    76- The 8 % indoor capacity does not exist and the outdoor space is not allocated in the precinct.

    77- The chart is showing a delivery date 2 month before the Opening Match and if we do not have a detailed granted construction schedule respecting the July 2013 deadline we are not able to agree on that solution.

    78- Team dressing room areas should also be green

    79- A considerably large area…may need to discuss with their stadium whether these offices could re-located (or designed to be) elsewhere for the competition

    80- It seems like there is only one way in and out of the West Stand. Future drawings should show more detail

    81- Is too small…should anyway be located elsewhere with a separate access for performers to the pitch (not through the Competitions area)

    82- Need to show more detail including location of doors, size of space, closets, WCs, etc.

    83- FIFA can assign spaces in future drawing versions once details of the spaces are known

    84- It would be preferred to find a location for the Youth Programme exterior to the stadium. Could we have a summary of the situation of buildings which are within proximity of the stadium?

    85- 84What is the relationship of the different perimeters? It’s difficult to see from the plans if they have placed 2 or 3 different perimeters.

    86- We’re not able to see on this plan the location for the Commercial Display Area.

    87- The room indicated for ceremonies is too small (for an opening match) and is in a poor location. This room should be indicated for other purposes (offices, mascot, etc.)

    88- Storage rooms look like optimal locations. Can we understand that the elevators are cargo elevators and not also for public / hospitality guests? Also, since these storage areas are large it would be good to plan to have them divided since they will need to sever several purposes. An area for the groundskeeper equipment will need to be foreseen to be separate with simple pitch access.

    89- What is the first level of public concourse? It seems that on the first level of concourse there are not food & beverage concessions on the
    West and East sides of the stadium.

    90- On the north and south stands there are quite a lot of food and beverage stands but nothing on the West and East. Where do these spectators get served (also seem to be no toilets there)? What is the infrastructure that will be placed in these Food & Beverage stands?

    91- What exactly are the spaces 3.00 and 3.03? What is the circulation to the rest of the stadium

    92- On the east stand what are numbers 4.04, 4.05, 4.06 to be used for. Are these storage locations (and on west stand 4.01, 4.02).

    93- On the east stand is there enough space in the concourse between the toilets and food and beverage stands. Are the architects sure that this will not create a circulation problem?

    94- What is 4.10, 4.15 and 4.14? It’s all indicated as F&B but it looks that these are not at all food and beverage stands.

    95- What is 5.02, 5.03, 5.04? Are these storages. Again as on the Main Concourse level is there enough circulation space between toilets and
    concessions?

    96- As the west stand is completely indicated as Press no food & beverage kiosks will be required on this level for the FWC. If they will be there for legacy purposes that’s fine but otherwise they will not be needed for FIFA.

    97- North side seems to be best for CD area. We need to understand what type of ground this would be and understand the quantity of spectators which would enter via this area. Also, it’s important to understand the perimeters first.

    98- 1.40 should be named Press Conference Room

    99- Those Media Vertical Accesses (NW) seem to be located on the wrong sides. They should be at least on SW side (related to Media Parking,
    AMC, Pitch Access, PCR). On higher concourses could be split on both sides for a better final access to the Media Tribune

    100- For Opening/Final we face a big problem with the Media Tribune being behind the goal line. It is unacceptable like that for the moment. We need to check with different capacities (Group Match, Quarter and Semi) to observe the acceptable limits.

    101- Must be located on the same side as the SMC and Media entrance

    102- Please give detailed dimensions

    103- The drawings don’t seem to indicate east/west, also on slide 6 the view turns some 90 degrees, which is a bit confusing (not sure whether the circle with three thin bars and one thicker bar are meant to indicate directions)

    104- Please clarify (and ensure) that Media Tribune is not in the East Stand (Media and TV would otherwise face evening sun)

    105- We agree on the remarks re capacity made in general; no seat kills for temporary infrastructure such as camera platforms have been taken into account

    106- Size and location of TV-Compound seem to be ok, but some 40% are underneath the stadium structure or on podium level?

    107- There seems to be only a single staircase from the ground floor/media area to Compound, SMC, Media Tribune; this looks rather small to us

    108- Media areas in ground floor, separation of competition and media is difficult, as only single entry? In general, we agree with Competitions remark, the areas are not clearly designated

    109- Presentation Studios Presentation Studios behind the Media Tribune do not seem to very deep, rather long & small. There is no indication of size, but they should be at least 5m deep. Any change (temporary structures or not, we can’t see) will have an impact on the Media Tribune layout.
  10. Century's Best Member

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Location:
    USA
    The closest restaurant to where the stadium is supposed to be built:

    [IMG]

    And the closest hotel:

    [IMG]

    Corinthians management, thanks for nothing. You will embarrass our country in front of the world.
  11. urubudagavea New Member

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2009
    Location:
    setor verde
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
    I also think that this idea of not having enough parking is a load of crap too. I am an urban planning student and we are taught that parking is not esential in a very dense urban area like the Morumbi,Pacaembu or Palestra Italia. These areas don't need a sea of parking because public transit is so efficient and convienient in São Paulo around these stadiums. It is time for people to get out of their cars and get off the fuel addiction. But anyways, the FIFA delegates can always fly a helicopter to Morumbi. That is what the rich people of São Paulo do anyways right?

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