Review: FIFA 14 United States player ratings

Though it's the wrong forum, it amazes me when I watch Messi play, how easy the game looks for him. He is literally a level above even the best players on the planet, maybe more than a level. You wonder how he continues to have the hunger he does when it seems so easy for him. It's also tough b/c I'm sure he wants all the trophies but understands that while he is "the great leo Messi" he also has to depend on the other 10 players on the team to achieve those trophies. My recommendation is, like when Michael Jordan was playing, take every opportunity you can to watch these games with your sons or daughters and/or see him in person whenever you can, as we won't see another of his like while we are alive.

 

How many world class players does Everton have?
I mean if the best team a player ever played against was Everton, was that player really world class.

If Donovan is the best player we ever had, and he is not world class, does that mean the USA has never had a world class player?



@PremierUSA @truefan420 What is a World class player?

 

I'd baines world class left back but that's it.

Yes we've never had a world class player.

Aw now this is where it gets interesting. Its a tough one and I don't have the time for a complete answer but the player needs to be a top league (France and Portugal count). At a champions league side (maybe not every year but one that challenges for it every year) As a regular starter. And produces consistently over a time long period. There are exceptions to the rule, baines and de Rossi (no champions), but for the most part that's my expectation.

 

I think that, when evaluating a player, you need to do your best to strip anything outside of that player's performance from it. I don't think team quality, or even league quality, should, in and of themselves, be determining factors. A player is world class if he's one of the best players in the world. We should try to determine that independent of team and league quality. It's more difficult to do it that way, but it can be done.

 

I completely disagree. League is extremely important. You have to play with and against the best and consistently play the best if you wanna be called world class.

 

My opinion of a player isn't a reward. If a player is X good, that's how good he is, regardless of where he's showing it. This stuff doesn't exist in a vacuum, but if Leo Messi decide to play in the Danish Superliga, that wouldn't make him a worse player. He's still the same player. You have to make some assumptions about how performance translates from one league to another, but completely ruling guys out for not playing in specific leagues definitely isn't going to paint an accurate picture.

 

I'd contend that if you're playing in a team full of strong players, it's easier to pass as a great player even if you're barely above mediocre, just because the other guys will cover for your faults.

It's a much bigger challenge to take a team not full of stars to glory. That's what characterized the truly great players in the past, like Pele or Maradona.

The "Globetrotting" of football is a recent phenomenon, and one that has truncated the development of many players who, otherwise, could have been great.

 

Basically the same arguments you can read about some dude that plays in Iran when compared to Messi.

see here

https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/khalatbari-vs-messi.1743105/

 

It does matter though because you'd have to make assumptions about how it translates instead of being able to see it. I'm not completely ruling out a player but it does matter a lot.

 

Isn't that a straw-man argument?

No one here is saying Dempsey and Donovan are like Messi, but that they may be legitimate World Class players by certain standards/definitions.

 

I'm not saying the have to play for barca or real but if they were a reg at say Napoli that would be cool. Hell hamsik is doing just that and has been for a while. Dude is def world class.

 

Given the subjective nature of it, this is the nature of the beast.

You absolutely are. By saying that a player must be playing in a top league to be considered world class, you're ignoring every player who doesn't. For example, was Neymar not a WC player until now?

 

I'm not even arguing about whether those guys are world class players. I'm just saying that playing in a lower-tier league doesn't define your quality.

 

But Napoli has been in the Champions League only once, and a couple of times in the Champion Clubs' Cup.

They definitely don't meet the criteria of "a champions league side (maybe not every year but one that challenges for it every year)" since in the last decade they've been mostly a mid-table team (they made the Europa/UEFA cup only three times since 1995!).

 

I had my doubts. I figured he'd be fine but wasn't quite ready to call him the world class till I saw him stacked up against the best week in week out. His competition level to make the national team and teams they play are much tougher than ours. And to be fair he wasn't being discussed as world class but as once in a generation like messi and Ronaldo.

 

Even more so. Neymar showed that he was one of the very best players in the world, a guy who would likely make a lasting impression on the sport, despite not playing in a top-4 league. This, of course, doesn't make Donovan world-class, but my point is that you can be world class and not be playing against world class competition.

 

They've made it 2 of last 3 and they missed and slipped down because they had no depth and couldn't compete for both. That's changed and I believe they will compete more regularly now.

 

Brazilian league has far far more skillful players in it than the mls and is known as a league/country that has produced some of the all time greats. Neymar had world class talent but would never be viewed as a world class player unless he went to Europe or won the World Cup with an epic performance.

 

He would have been wrongly underrated because of the quality of play. I don't believe that Neymar became a world class player over the last few weeks. He already was one in Brazil.

And that Brazil is better than MLS is irrelevant. It's not a top league, which was the criteria you set earlier.

 

I called him world class talent but he still isnt world class to me until he does it consistently. He is but isn't. Part of the criteria I have is consistency at the level but the talent is real and from what he's shown he will have it.

Your right brazil isn't a top league but it has a history of producing world class talent.

 

We can agree to disagree. I give you credit for using the term, kitchen table pscychology. That's a new one for me.

As for the Donovan being World Class argument; I don't think it's could've, should've, would've at all. I don't argue well he'd do this on Man U or Bayern Munich or for that matter if he'd even get the minutes on those teams. I think Donovan's record speaks for itself. He has broken the record for assists/goals at MLS; no small feat even if the league is not the EPL. And he has been amazing at the international level. Some people have the predetermination that if you don't succeed in La Liga, Serie A, EPL, bundesliga then you can't possibly be world class. That's there deal, I reckon. I say you don't be among the best players at a WC by not being world class.

And again, the international media sees Donovan as an elite player; hence my case that there is significant apathy among a big segment of our fan base. Thus, it's not put down to say so. It's just acknowledging the fact.

 

If you have a top five to ten performance at the WC, you are a world class player; if only for that time. If you have a performance like Forlan had at the WC, you are definitely world class. You don't do what he did unless you are anything but world class. Frankly, probably the best WC performance I've ever seen for that matter; it was that world class. And your assertion that Forlan didn't have a solid club career is patently false. He got it done everywhere until Inter Milan. It likely didn't work out there because his style of play did not fit into their system and perhaps because he was getting a little older to be a star, game in and game out at that level over a long season.

 

Hahaha you must be too young to remember him at Man U were he failed big time. He went to Villarreal after that had one fantastic year than declined the next two went to athletico had a great year then declined again. Both Villarreal and athletico are not top class teams.

As far as the World Cup it was a world class performance but just that performance. He never maintained that level of success against the best year in year out. Another area where disagree on definition. I believe you need to do it consistently over time to receive the honor of being called world class. Seems like for you you just need one or two performances and that makes you world class. Don't get it twist he is class and played at world class level that tournament but he isn't a world class player because he couldn't consistently maintain that level.