Review: FIFA 14 United States player ratings

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by AutoPenalti, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

    Sep 10, 2007
    Chicago
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because you've watched Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Pirlo, Ozil, etc. play soccer?

    Love Bradley. Think a lot of people underrate him. But if he's arguably the best passer on the planet, it's a painfully bad argument.
     
  2. TheyCallMeBruce

    TheyCallMeBruce Member+

    Jul 22, 2013
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I don't understand what this means.
     
  3. The kicker

    The kicker Red Card

    Oct 7, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I think the rating are underated I think ld should be in 83 - 86 Bradley should be around 79 - 84 and I think aron should be a 74 and clint is fine with his ratings
     
  4. PremierUSA

    PremierUSA Member

    Sep 2, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Mmm. He makes all the same passes as those guys make. I mean you can argue that Pirlo is the better play maker still because he has better quickness and lateral movement to create space. But just within the scope of the passes themselves, Bradley passes just as well as anyone.
     
  5. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What pisses me off a little is that when you play as the United States, the commentators talk about one of two things: "Oh, it seems strange how America hasn't produced a truly world-class player" "You're right! You'd think with all their resources and population they'd have done it already, but they haven't..." OR "You know, when you think of American sports, you think of heroes. This US team is lacking that superstar player...". I mean, the first one I kinda get. It's hard for Europeans to grasp the idea of having multiple firmly entrenched sports that are way more popular than soccer, so it's somewhat easy to forgive them for just looking at numbers and asking why it doesn't seem to add up. However, I'd certainly argue that Landon Donovan is our team's "superstar" or "hero", and if not him, then Bradley more recently. Certainly LD has become one of if not the best American player ever produced, but since he plays for LA he doesn't get that world-class or superstar moniker? Ugh... It really frustrates me...
     
  6. PremierUSA

    PremierUSA Member

    Sep 2, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Landon Donovan is a superstar. Elitists and apathetic Americans don't want to admit it. But, the man is world class and has been.
     
  7. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course we'd have to define "world class", but under what I would consider "world class", LD certainly fits in there.
     
  8. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    #58 Suyuntuy, Oct 8, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
    Donovan is praised as "el gran Landon Donovan" by Spanish language media, like El Mundo (Spanish newspaper, excellent reputation) or El Hincha, a sports magazine from Chile (excellent reputation, too):

    http://www.elmundo.es/mundial/2010/2010/06/18/grupoc/1276877179.html

    http://www.elhincha.cl/noticias/los-10-2/los-10-paises-clasificados-al-mundial/

    In Spanish, "el gran..." ("the great...") is reserved for players considered of the highest level. And people in Spain and South America know a lot about soccer, so if they think LD is an excellent player...

    The Italians call him "fantasista" --which is the highest level of playmaker, the AM who can make the sort of passes that break the best defending.

    http://www.calciopro.com/mondiali-di-calcio/mondiale-2010-stati-uniti/

    While the French often apply to him the term "l'idol" --also restricted to the likes of Hagi, Stoichkov, Cantona, etc.

    Not to mention that the French press has dedicated several special articles to him in the past decade.

    http://www.therookies.fr/2013/10/07/landon-donovan-american-idol/

    I think around the world Landon is recognized as a world class player. The doubters are mainly Americans, or English guys who root against Everton (because LD calls himself an "Evertonian for life" --which means Liverpool fans, in particular, dislike him).

    PS: Keep in mind that FIFA was assigning ratings at the time LD wasn't playing, or had just returned from his sabbatical, and was not called to the NT. That has affected his rating there. With a game released in Sept., chances are all the numerical details were finished in the early summer, before the GC (that's why so many transfers are missing!). The last 3 months are usually beta testing (for playing balance) and graphics tweaking, from what I've read.
     
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  9. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe we need a "Universe class" to separate players like Messi and CR9 from the other world class players.
     
  10. TheyCallMeBruce

    TheyCallMeBruce Member+

    Jul 22, 2013
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Those guys are generational talents. I think most people can tell the difference between Messi and a guy like Iniesta.
     
  11. PremierUSA

    PremierUSA Member

    Sep 2, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nah. It's understood that there's Messi and everyone else. Some people like to throw Ronaldo into the mix. Not I, though.
     
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  12. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure but think its in reference to the delusional guy calling Bradley the best passer in the world. Saying you'd have to augment his stats to make that true.
     
  13. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the scope of American absolutely. In the scope of the world I believe he could have been but can't give a fair assessment as he didn't play a good chunk of his career against the top talent the world has but I believe he could have.
    Your right we'd have to define world class. The only reason I wouldn't rank him there isn't because I don't believe he couldn't match up but because we didn't see him consistently match up with the best. At the top level donovan wouldn't have been as prolific of a scorer but I don't think he would have missed a beat as a great set up man.
     
  14. PremierUSA

    PremierUSA Member

    Sep 2, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Donovan performed very well in his stints on loan in the BPL and he has performed great in the MLS and at the international level. He's a star. Just because he didn't play year after year in the BPL doesn't cancel that reality. Again, it's the apologist who pretend he had to 'prove' himself in other leagues. I refer you to Suyuntuy's post. Even the other countries, who have their own stars get how good Donovan is. He was on pace to win the 2010 WC Golden Boot had the US not been eliminated and that was while playing from the wing midfielder position. The dude's top shelf. You know it, but the elitist in you can't bring you to say it.
     
  15. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Make your case without this garbage please.
     
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  16. PremierUSA

    PremierUSA Member

    Sep 2, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The greatest player in American soccer history, Landon Donovan is a star. It's a legitimate argument that many American fans have an inferiority complex and can't even admit that such a player is a top caliber player.
     
  17. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, "you don't agree with me because you have an inferiority complex" is an ad hominem attack and you've made it consistently enough that you are running afoul of even the looser moderating standards in this forum.
     
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  18. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He did play well in England. He failed in Germany. I'm not saying he isn't a star. I'm not an apologist or elitist as you suggest. All I'm saying is to be called world class in my book you need to play at a world class level against other world class talents day in day out. He has not done that. While I think he could have he hasn't. So I won't call him world class. He is still a star player he can't be put in the top ring of players cause he refused to do it himself.

    Also just to let you know you sound like a child when you call people apologists and elitists just because they disagree with you.

    Good day
     
  19. PremierUSA

    PremierUSA Member

    Sep 2, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument

    I did not make a personal attack instead of regarding the issue. I've stated how Donovan's resume and world-wide acceptance as a world class player speaks for itself and stated that many apathetic Americans have an inferiority complex. Anyone that plays in the weak MLS thusly surely can't be great to their minds. That's no more ad hominem than when someone calls MLS a weak league. It's a proper analysis.
     
  20. PremierUSA

    PremierUSA Member

    Sep 2, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Donovan was what, 17 when he was in Germany? How many 17-year-olds are ever break-out stars? And sure, it'd be nice for some fans if Donvan played day in and day out in a BPL. But that doesn't erase his dominance at the MLS and International levels. I think it's clear to me that players can get their reps at MLS and then get it done at the international level. I think that's been proven time and time again.
     
  21. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Donovan didn't play with their A team till 2004-2005 when he was 23 then went to Munich on loan 4 years later at the age 27 and failed again. I believe they had the option to buy at the end of the loan and declined. He played well during both stints at Everton but more as a set up guy than finisher. I agree he can play in the mls and still get it done internationally but that doesn't change the fact that if you wanna call him world class he has to have competed against the best of the best day in day out. That doesn't change what he has been to the USA or that he is uber talented and the best player we've ever had. And it doesn't just have to be the English league but any of the top 4 leagues on a champions league caliber team (doesn't have to be champions every year but consistently in the mix) as player that is a regular starter.
     
  22. PremierUSA

    PremierUSA Member

    Sep 2, 2013
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Donovan could have played in any league at any time. He valued being in the USA while making less money; at least salary wise and he killed it at MLS and international leve. Also, he was quite clearly a top ten player at the last world cup and I don't know how much more world class you can get than that.

    As for his stint at Munich; I would assert that they mismanaged him or failed to advance him. He statistically performed well on the second team and and very well for the national team during that time and his talent was too obvious to be ignored. That's their loss though. As for his second stint in Germany; it was a very brief loan and calling it a failure seems very superficial.

    And Donovan performed primarily as a setup guy in Everton because that's the role that they utilized him. But whether as a setup guy or finisher at USA, LA, Everton, etc, he has always been great.
     
  23. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe for a bottom feeder or mid tier team but to say he could play for a top team in a top league and be a lock starter is false as he failed at the one chance he had at Munich. As far as him being a top ten player, in your eyes, at the World Cup making him world class sorry but no. Diego forlan was considered possibly the best player and he while very talented is not world class and was never world class. He didn't do it consistently over his career and failed when given a chance at a top club. For donovan to be world class he would have had to compete against the best of the best and been consistently class. We never saw that thus he can be classified as world class.
    Munich was the loan team and bayer Leverkusen was the first German experience. Saying they mismanaged him is you taking all the blame off of him. Maybe they did make mistakes with him but if he was world class at that time he would have forced the matter. Clearly he was not world class at those stages of his career because he didn't get it done in either stint in Germany. Part of that is because I don't think he is a good fit stylistically in that league but that's not what were discussing.
    That's a fair point as them using him in that manner but part of that is because he can't play up top in England is had to be used wide. Not a knock on him. He has said before that he looks to make the final pass over taking the shot. Having said that you can't say he has always been great then reference usa, la and everton (your forget the quakes) and overlook his failures at Leverkusen and Munich. If he was always great he wouldn't have failed there.
     
  24. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I think the key to the expression "world class" is that it contains the word "world" in it.

    That is, a "world class" player is one that proves his worth on the world stage: the World Cup.

    I don't buy the idea prevalent among American and Canadian fans that Europe is the land of milk and honey, and the level there is so far above the rest of the world, it's the only ground where players can be really tested.

    I find that fallacious, and as someone who watches several different leagues regularly, I can tell you I often see more advanced tactics in a game between two Colombian teams, than in EPL or Serie A games.

    Thing is, we live in an age of globalization, where PR can turn any turd into a diamond, if its excellence is repeated enough. And that is the case with the magical "Top 5" leagues.

    Most of the games are boring, following a simple formula, and with few successful passing, lousy defending, bad organization in counters, and tons of wasted chances any mediocre player could score.

    Somehow, it seems people only watch the games like Arsenal-ManU or Barcelona-Real Madrid, but never watch a Sunderland-Crystal Palace or a Granada-Osasuna. Out of 2000+ games in the Top Leagues and Top Cups, I guarantee you about 80% are garbage.
     
  25. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope. "Inferiority complex" is kitchen table psychology, implying that an individual with such a complex is being irrational in their assessment of their own worth relative to others. When applied as you are doing it here it allows you to dismiss without addressing considered arguments about the relative quality of soccer leagues and the role such a factor might play in establishing a given player's stature. Your counter-argument does not address their point; instead you're trying to locate your problem with their argument in the person him/her -self. In addition to being a tactic for avoiding a key point in the others' argument, it's also a crappy argument. And in the process you're taking a cheap shot at the people you're talking to here: "American soccer fans have an inferiority complex. You are an American soccer fan. Ergo you have an inferiority complex. Ergo I win The Internet."

    And while we're on the subject of things you're doing wrong, it's hard to tell what you're arguing--to the extent that it's beginning to make me wonder why you're arguing. Are you arguing that he's "world class"? If so, meh. It's one of the more pointless arguments on this site because it involves playing "would-a, should-a, could-a" with unprovable hypotheticals (eg "Donovan could have played in any league at any time") until Hell freezes over while shooting at a target that's likely to be defined differently by anybody you're talking to. But as long as you prosecute your version of that argument without deliberately insulting and/or annoying people, you're welcome to it. If, however, you're arguing some variant of "people on this board are stupid because they disagree with me about X" or, even worse "people on this board are stupid so I'm going to ******** with them by persistently arguing X" then we will continue to have problems. Up to a point.

    And for the record: I think Donovan has the capacity to make our team better every time he steps on the pitch. I also think he's been doing so long enough and consistently enough that if somebody walks up to me and claims he's the best US player ever, I'm not going to argue. Moreover, at his best he plays a version of the game I love to watch.
     
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