Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Games' started by BerlinKopKid, Sep 25, 2007.
Indeed Fifa does look great. Always has. It's just terrible to play.
What? The master league is great. The replay value of PES is considerably higher than FIFA. Sorry you don't like next gen sports games, you're missing out.
I can't get into Master League. It's uninspiring and pretty dull, and certainly doesn't reflect reality much at all.
The problem for me with next gen is that they re-built all the game engines and they feel pretty alien and they generally are about as good as PS2 sports games were 6 years ago... which is to say not all that good. The graphics are nice, but I'm practically blind so graphics don't mean a whole lot to me. To me, visually, animations and such are more important. PES animations I've never liked, they've never been convincing to me at all. I feel like FIFA on the last generation has great animations and looks very convincing in that fashion even though the picture isn't very sharp and the colors are muddied, etc. But as I said, my vision is pretty bad so graphics have never been something I've invested in.
So why do you like Fifa then? Graphics are Visuals are all it's good for. The feel of the players is blocky and annoying. The players take so damn long to get the ball under control it's horrible. And as for the shooting...jeez it's a fluke if you score from outside the box.
In the other thread I posted that to my suprise, NBA Live 08 is the best basketball game I've ever played. I completely disagree with you on the next gen games issue. I think they are better now than ever. Just my opinion though.
As for the master league, I guess it's a matter of opinion but I play as Inter in the SerieA and you got the whole league (all licensed) and you have the Champions League (albeit named something else) if you're in the top 2 and you have the UEFA Cup (again, a generic named uefa clone) if you finish in spots #3 or #4 and then you have promotion and relegation. Not totally refelctive of the real life UEFA setup but close enough. I set up the SerieA, the La Liga, The Premiership (unlicensed) and then the other league I set up various big Euro clubs (Bayern Munich, Rangers, Celtic, etc)
I've said this before, I wish I liked FIFA better. I wish FIFA was as fun to me as PES is. That way I could have MLS clubs, I could play the real Champions league instead of just a competition with 4 leagues total. But sadly I just can't get into FIFA. PES feels like real football. I don't want an extended highlight game, I want all the highs and the lulls of a real football match, I want the struggles and boring patches too. This is why I liked NBA 2k over NBA live for all those years, in NBA 2k you had several normal layups that weren't terribly exciting but played like real basketball, and same with NHL 2k (up until this year where EA has really stepped up).
As I said, I like the animations, which is different than the raw graphical power which doesn't really interest me. I think the feel of the players in all of the soccer games is something less than natural because of the limited directions of control for most of the mechanisms of the game. There's no getting around that really.
And I find it ironic that you say that about long shot because most people - myself included - have found long shots a bit too easy (especially in 07) This year I think it's a bit closer to reality, but it's certainly not a fluke to score from outside of the box.
I enjoy the play of the game, I can control the players well, I can play enjoyable attacking soccer, things that should be easy are easy (which isn't the case in PES) and things that are more challenging present that type of learning curve.
The game comes with thousands of players and hundreds of teams, I can manage teams in many different leagues, sign players from many different leagues - there's actually an American presence in the game. My current Arsenal squad in 08 has more Americans than English, which I enjoy.
And a personal pet peeve... Whenever I play PES I have to turn the sound off. First off, the music is terrible, secondly the commentary is terrible. In my opinion, if you endeavor to accomplish the daunting task of liking Clive Tyldesley, the easiest method is to play a few games of PES then anything sounds better - even Clive and Andy Gray. This starts as a small gripe with the game, but I honestly cannot stand to play PES with the sound on, which is one quick way to ruin a gaming experience - which is why I say that there's more to making a video game than just gameplay.
Not that FIFA is perfect in that regard - I don't particularly enjoy Tyldesley, but he's passable. And in one game I had early in the season, I was playing Liverpool at the Emirates and had to listen to You'll Never Walk Alone all game... Literally all game. The track just kept repeating... Over and over, at the Emirates. That's annoying.
Honestly, I don't want the lulls. That's not why I'm there. I'm not there to have a Lehman-Gallas-Gilberto-Gallas-Lehman-Eboue-Gilberto sequence. I'm there to have a Lehman-Gilberto-Fabregas-Rosicky-Fabregas-RVP sequence.
I don't need a direct highway to goal, but I'm playing the game to play what I enjoy about the sport. FIFA gives you the highs and the lows at an entertaining and bite-sized pace. I know from experience that it is possible to capture the full depth of the emotion of the game without giving the boring aspects of the game equal representation.
Next Gen FIFA 08 is way, WAY better gameplay wise than PES08 demo, I haven't played the full game, but FIFA 08 is one of the best footy games ever. I liked PES better last year, but with the trick system FIFA 08 dominates PES. Shooting on FIFA is good, hard, and there's no real money goals. PES is wayyyyyyyyy too fast this year too.
Did you come across your username by accident.
Anyone who knows anything about football prefers PES. It seems only Yanks *SHOCK* are the only people who like Fifa.
Yet oddly enough it has outsold PES in England two years in a row...
The funny thing is that most reviews say Pro Evo is better, even American reviewers and mention that "real" football fans prefer the gameplay of winning eleven.
I have to agree with what it says on wikipedia:
"FIFA Football has always been the main rival to the Pro Evo series, with the split between groups who support the Pro Evo series and the FIFA series becoming increasingly wider every year. Pro Evolution Soccer seems to be the preferred game critically, although worldwide sales of the rival series reveal FIFA to be the more commercially successful. Some Pro Evo fans believe, and strongly argue, that this fact is due to some Pro Evo fans buying FIFA Football as a stopgap until the newest Pro Evo in the series is released. It is acknowledged by many fans of the game for its advanced realism and editing advantages over FIFA Football. Although, FIFA Football is the preferred game when regarding licensing, however, Pro Evolution Soccer with each new release is slowly advancing in this respect. The general consensus is that the Pro Evo series has superior gameplay, borne through attention to detail, while FIFA Football is regarded as more of an arcade game, allowing a wider variety of gamers to enjoy its offerings."
That may be and it's a sensical argument, but I get annoyed when people make the "only Americans like FIFA" argument when the game is obviously marketed to the UK and is very successful in the UK.
This is by and large an American forum and I don't talk down to UK posters when they post here and I don't appreciate being talked down to by them when they post here.
EDIT - Just thinking here, I've actually bought the last two year's worth of PES games as a stopgap/refresher when it comes out here time-delayed. So I'm not sure it's a phenomenon exclusive to FIFA.
PES is easy to pick up and once you get used to the dynamics of it you can play reasonably well. However, there is also a ridiculous amount of added depth to PES that you try to learn. There are hundreds of different moves you can use, some unique to certain players and situations. It is this added depth that makes it more realistic and appeals to people who have actually played football before. Even the current FIFA is too simplistic in that regard.
In FIFA 08 you are forced to play the former because of how the game plays.
I am? Doesn't seem so to me...
As for the added depth, that's nice, but I've already detailed why I like and don't like both games and that answers no aspect of that.
PES could be the most perfect simulation of soccer possible and it wouldn't matter. All of it's other characteristics ruin the experience for me. Until they make a world-realistic game mode, capture some essence of the Manager titles that I so enjoy, get rid of their damn announcer, get better animations, and learn that emotion is more important in the game than any small nuance they can add... It's just never going to work for me. I buy it, I play it a couple weeks, then I lose interest because it's just an inately flawed game in those regards.
FIFA does very well in those categories and has a fun, smooth gameplay that features what I need to get out of it.
If I want ridiculously "real" football, I have a ball and a field with nets to play on. I play FIFA to play some enjoyable EPL matches with Arsenal.
FIFA is very slow in terms of build-up play.
I really don't get why you keep saying you don't want a 'real' football game when the only pro to Fifa is it's realism with the kits and licenses. I think the only real reason you bought Fifa is cos it has the MLS on it. End of.
And the defences are superhuman. I played a game on Legendary against Argentina last night with Germany and could only put crosses in cos as soon as I received the ball with Klose or Podolski with my back to goal the defence had pounced and gone straight thru me!
I'd dispute that somewhat, but it would be a pointless argument.
To go then and say it is as you say, speed doesn't necessarily dictate the method and procedure there. FIFA's speed certainly doesn't force me to backpass all day.
In my experience with ProEvo it did play fast in that you could get the ball to any big club winger and he could sprint down the field and get into the box rather fast.
That said, as always I'm talking about last gen... I have heard that FIFA 08 for 360 and PS3 is slow, clunky, the players have bad control, and that the game bogs down in the midfield. Considering my playful hatred for next gen sports game, I'll believe it... But the versions I'm playing don't have that problem.
You need to have a little bit of nuance to your definitions here.
Absolute realism in terms of gameplay is what I was writing about, realism in terms of the world of pro soccer is far more important to me. They are two different things and I believe I'm justified in applying them different weight.
As for MLS, while I do one day plan on playing the MLS, I haven't actually played a game with an MLS team yet since I got the game, so I have a hard time believing your little quip there at the end.
The defenses are vastly improved, but I think it's something that you get comfortable with as you play the game more. In my experience, if you use a good first touch and first step you'll be alright a decent amount of the time.
The problem I have with Fifa is you have to work hard to like and enjoy the game. It shouldn't be like that. The game should be enjoyable from the start. I really want to like Fifa but just can't because it's not fun to play, it's so frustrating when your players don't go to the ball etc. I used to be a Fifa guy too. Back in the days from Fifa 97 -01, I then realised Pro was much more fun to play. It's always been a step ahead. Like when the first Pro came out it had a gauge for the shooting whereas Fifa never did. I'd even be as radical to say that Fifa08 isn't even as good as Pro 5 or 6, let alone 2008.
That's fine, you're welcome to think that and enjoy the games as you wish. They're not hurting for sales, so I doubt they'll stop making FIFA anytime soon, meaning I'll have the game I enjoy to play.
Amazingly, I don't have to work hard to enjoy the game, quite the opposite, I work hard to try to give PES a chance. Yet, every year it dissapoints me.
Which is all perfectly fine... People come to games for different things. It's important to remember that.
Its all a matter of prefrence. I can see why people love to play Fifa..and i can also see why people love to play Pro ev (which has always been my game of choice), but the fact is...more people play and prefer pro ev over fifa, we'll,the people i kno anyways.
"Prefer" is nebulous. Critical reviews favor PES obviously, but I think it's somewhat skewed. Basically the same reviewers review the games every year and come to the game with a notion of what they're going to find. If you take reviews of each of the series over a 3 year span you'd get the same review almost every year: "Winning Eleven doing the same thing as last year, it's still good, dissapointing lack of improvement." "FIFA steadily improving, taking from PES, getting closer and closer, is this the year? Gameplay enhancements closing the gap..." and then inevitably the scores stay the same distance apart. So the reviews for three years talk each year about "this is the best FIFA yet" and "winning eleven resting on its laurels." So they spend three pages writing about the closing gap in the review, then give it the same score they gave it last year. So then you compile scores and the difference remains pronounced. While I definately believe PES is the critical favorite, in reading the body of the reviews I've gotten a sense that the critical advantage has gotten smaller, yet the numbers (as often is the case) don't reflect that.
In terms of sales, I'm not sure more people "prefer" it. At least in the US and the UK, FIFA sells more.
I'm not sure what the global numbers are, I've heard PES' global numbers are better. Perhaps they have a huge advantage in the asian market considering their publisher... I'm not sure.
But in the UK and US samples, FIFA is "preferred" in the sense that more people spend their money on it.
Can't speak for anyone else, but as a soccer and video game fanatic, I always buy both games.
In the long run, I play Pro Evo more, but that's less due to any set feature of the base game, or even how I perceive which game plays better than the other.
It's more because of the editablilty and vast range of community mods available for Pro Evo, which gives me leagues, kits and other enhancements not possible in the base game of either FIFA or Pro Evo.
As much as the US delay of Pro Evo annoys me, by the time I get the game, there's tons of mods available created by the European mod community.
Hopefully Konami has included this level of editing (previously available in the PS2 version) in this year's PS3 game, unlike last year - since that would be a dealbreaker for me.