Hello all Today I had a U-12 cup game with a referee who I didn't know. He said he used to ref a while ago but came back this year. Not that I'm very judgmental or very good and experienced myself, as I've only been reffing for 2.5 years, but this kind of a piece of information makes me more alert to possible mistakes etc.. Anyhow, there was a penalty award in the 2nd minute of the game. I was far side. The referee takes up a position in the arc (weird, which made me really think). The ball hits the post, GK dived but I don't think she touched it, comes back off the post and the shooter scores. So he gives a goal, I look at the situation and I raise my flag to chat with him. I ask him if she touched it, he looks puzzled, I tell him that if she didn't touch him it shouldn't be a goal.. he looks puzzled and says "it came off the keeper's hand and then the post I think. good thought there." So we go on, the coach of the team that just got scored on is asking me why is it a goal as he says he didn't think his GK touched it, I tell him what the referee saw and we go on, he asks his GK if she touched it, the GK yells out that no, she did not. At half time, we discuss this over and the referee says that he thought he heard the glove and thought he saw the touch, but wasn't 100% sure, the AR on that side wasn't sure either... of course there was nothing to be done then but anyway. I am about 90% confident the keeper didn't touch it and I think even more so that if the referee took up his proper PK position, this wouldn't be an issue as he'd seen it better. But who knows. What happened happened and that's it. That's not what I wanted to ask though. So my question is - was my behavior ok? Does it look like undermining the referee a bit too much? I was far side AR, furthest away from everybody, but nobody seemed to blink about this. Was I getting too involved in the play or was that something I should have done since I saw it? I probably would not do it with a referee who has been doing it longer or is a grade 7/6/5 but in this case the fact that this happened AND that he is coming back and the overall impression he gave (only one shirt, wasn't sure on the rules of competition, said this was his first year back etc.) made me just make sure to talk over everything if I had any doubts.
I think the Arc is the giveaway. Somehow, let the assignor know. A quiet word, a phone call. If you feel it's needed.
I'd say you did exactly what you should here. You inquired, but did not insist. Since this was the first couple minutes of the match and match critical and the game was already stopped, having a quick word to make sure he saw a touch shouldn't be a problem, especially with the way the gentlemen presented himself.
...but given that you were seventy yards away, it might have been preferable to have found a way to accomplish that without raising your flag.
Maybe some would consider that a bit of a faux pas, but your job is to assist the referee and that's what you did. On most plays, that far away, you often have to chalk up what you saw to the fog of war and let it go. But on a game critical thing like that, where it seems the referee has made a big mistake, and you think there's a good chance he forgot the rule, you did the right thing.
Sounds like you did the right thing, but I see referees often do something here that I find objectionable. Once another official tells us something, it is fact. So, if coach asks why it was a goal, the answer is: "Keeper touched the ball." NOT "he said keeper touched the ball" The latter implies you disagree. Looks like you did the right thing. I'm just using it to show where some officials unintentionally sandbag fellow officials.
Well, maybe not with someone who stands in the arc for a PK. Another thing I like about the dual ... you can run over and have a chat with your partner when he suffers a brain cramp, instead of standing there on the touch line hoping he notices your discomfort on his behalf. (And vice versa ... )
Thanks a lot for the responses. It's all much more clear and reassuring to know that what I did was right. And Sport Billy, that's a great point, I didn't think of an effect such minor wording difference could make. Yeah... I'm not sure he'd really notice those kinds of mechanics. Who knows...
I tell my ARs that if I am about to restart after a goal that should not have been awarded, get my attention any way they can - catch my eye, call my name, jog out onto the field and tap me on the shoulder - whatever it takes. The play is dead and we won't be restarting for a few moments, so even coming out onto the field is better than incorrectly awarding a goal. For all the players/coaches/spectators know we are discussing the angle of the sun or the beer following the game. Just get the decision right.
It's tough for the trail AR. The lead can stand still, but the R may not pay much attention to the trail AR until he's ready to restart. This is one of those scenarios that lacks a truly good course of action. I think the flag here is OK - beats not having any communication till the KO is set up. (Of course, much easier with headsets..)
Agreed with the above - on these critical situations if you have information, you have to assist, even as the trail AR. It's rare, but it does happen.* You handled it well, and once the CR tells you he saw no touch, that's basically the end of it as you are there to assist. One would hope the CR can see better than you from where he is, and you've gotta go with is and back him all the way with the coach. *My only somewhat similar situation: Y-League match, trail AR, and watching a strong attacking play in the PA. Just as three people step between the CR and the play, the attacker gets wiped out from behind with a reckless tackle. I check the lead AR, and her view is blocked too. CR - seeing nothing - does not call a foul, but stops play moments later for the attacker's injury. I get the CR's attention, inform him of what happened, and (strongly) recommended that he caution the defender and award a PK, which the CR then did. If the play hadn't stopped for the injury though, no idea how I would have managed/sold it.
So the CR was standing in the arc behind the player taking the PK? Aside from not being in the right position to begin with, would he not be perfectly positioned to see if the keeper touched the ball or not?
Couple thoughts. First off, I never award a goal without checking on BOTH my ARs. Second, the AR on the goal line should ideally have the best view and if your not sure, it did not happen. Third, and biggest clue is the CR watching the keeper instead of player encroachment. Since your a relatively new ref you did the correct thing by not throwing the guy under the bus and not insisting. That said, I have allowed a GREAT DEAL of assisting when I get a National etc on my line. As in, when they begin assisting on a point I go directly to "what would you be doing," and then leaning a lot in that direction.