when i go out to dinner at a friend's house, i understand that the host will dictate the menu. that's fair. it's a free meal. if i go out to eat at any eatery, regardless of the quality, i prefer to choose the fare i consume. i pay. you cook. what a concept. imagine going to Mongo Burgers and having the folks at the counter say, "Today we are serving the Colossal Burger with sweet potato fries, a mango-pineapple smoothie and poached apples with a raspberry coulis: 11.50. How would you like your burger prepared?" sure, the chef can make excellent choices, but for some crazy reason, i like the autonomy.
Maybe you have trust issues. Or control issues. Or both. Luckily, there are more restaurants that offer choices than don't. Personally, I don't like vegan bakeries. I also don't go to them. I don't blame the bakery - I just go to a different one.
Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly sensitive to the whole aesthetic of dining out, which has significantly increased in New York in the last decade. Some people, for instance, were annoyed when Sam Sifton began focusing on atmosphere a decent amount when reviewing restaurants in the Times, though I completely understand it. That being said, restaurants are, at the end of the day, an industry that feeds people. Romera, which was run by a Spanish neurosurgeon and Adria disciple closed quickly in NYC (before I could go) because........very few people actually liked the food given the price. At that point it goes way, way too far. I agree, I do have the option of going elsewhere. But there are chefs that do huge tasting menus, like Cesar Ramirez at Brooklyn Fare (which is fantastic, and was an amazing bargain before they got their liquor license, but you wouldn't get reservations now so I didn't mention it). I told him I don't eat pork, and he said - not a problem, we'll leave off the pork on a couple of the dishes. He warned it wouldn't taste quite as good, but I'm willing to live with that. I don't demand I be catered to completely, but meeting me at least part of the way might be nice. Especially since I won't know what Ko would serve that particular night; it's basically an invitation for anyone who eats pork not to go. OK.......... Also, I will add, Chang's whole ethos is not about "food as art", he claims he wants to serve the kind of food that chefs themselves want to eat, but that is simple rather than overly complicated. Which doesn't comport well with "you eat what I serve you or don't come". Anyway, that's way too much time spent on Chang (whose Ma Peche I find pleasant but utterly forgettable) and my dislike of pure prix fix. I hope you enjoy Ko and you'll almost certainly enjoy Eleven Madison, which is an awesome meal. Do tell us afterwards if I'm missing the best meal of my life by not eating pork at Ko 1. There is no restaurant that does wine pairings for that many courses; it's just not feasible. Per Se does them for about 7 or so, as I recall, which is pushing it. I also don't trust wine pairings, because often it's a way for restaurants to grossly overcharge on wine, even moreso than they do already (I try to bring my own as much as possible). Sometimes "this is an interesting bottle we've discovered" really is that. Other times (and too often, from my experience), it's a way to get a bottle they buy for $7 onto a wine pairing that's going to cost $150. Like at Per Se, for instance. 2. I'm not asking the chef to change the order of the dishes or the content. I don't eat pork; surely the entire meal won't be ruined if the chef sends me one or two courses (at non-Chang restaurants, how many pork courses are there, really?) that are basic renditions of staples rather than his desired dishes? I get it, I'm ruining his exact preferred order, but it's MY choice. 3. There are a ton of restaurants that are amazing that don't have to succumb to this silliness, Eleven Madison among them. (If you tell them that you don't eat anything that casts a shadow, they'll smile and find a way to do it.) I've gotten substitutions on prix fix meals at some of the best places in NYC - Gramercy Tavern, Corton (which definitely has the "food as art" ethos, incidentally), Daniel, Bouley and del Posto. All those are great restaurants that seem to manage just fine when asked to accommodate a customer's tastes.
But that's not a great comparison (not that Stilton's comparison to Mondo Burgers was). I'm not walking into a vegan bakery and asking for them to make me a sandwich with cheese and pancetta. I'm asking a restaurant that serves plenty of things other than pork to serve me one or two courses slightly differently - use a different type of meat, or, frankly, send me another meat course twice. It's also not a great comparison because I won't know ahead of time what the restaurant is going to serve, whereas a vegan bakery is what it is. I might show up for the all duck dinner, or the all pork dinner.
They don't. They're hardly the only place, either. I just want to make it clear, I don't have any kind of vendetta against David Chang
When I was in the restaurant business, though they certainly weren't restaurants of the caliber Nice is talking about, I didn't mind substitution requests on nights that weren't balls out busy. If you asked me or the chef on a night that was, well...good luck.
i don't think mine was a comparison at all. i've had two prix fixe meals, on at La Toque in LA (which Ken Frank sold and moved to Napa ) and the other at Napa Rose next to Disneyland. i was ultimately disappointed in both. in each case, i went not planning to have a prix fixe meal. maybe that's the problem. hard to say.
I think this is a personal preference - great omakase can be great. You try things you wouldn't ordinarily try and it expands your food horizons. I like chefs who have a vision and try to make something work. I don't want it every night - but to make another bad analogy, I don't kibitz about how I like my theater when I go to a show - I may not like it ultimately but I think surrendering some control in dining can be great. But I'm also an omnivore.
While I understand that point of view, the places I usually ask for substitutions are the sort of places that charge enough to accommodate such requests. I do remember once being shocked at an LA restaurant where they absolutely refused to change an entree to remove pork even though it was in one of the sides; they actually told me they wouldn't be willing to bring the course without the side. Never had that one before. Not enjoying two prix fix meals is more likely an indication of the quality of the restaurant, not prix fix itself. I'm a fan of omakase as well (Gari does a great one, in my opinion), but usually when I tell them I don't like mushrooms they just don't add mushrooms to it. Not really a big deal.
True - although it might not be as easy to adjust on the fly at some of these high end restaurants as it would be with omakase. I get why chef's wouldn't want to substitute - they would rather piss off a few people than put out something they don't think will be as good, assuming it's even an option if they've been preparing all day and may or may not have subsitutes on hand. Have you been to Masa? I've heard it has slipped recently but I still wish I had the disposable income to try it when it was at it's peak.
Good point; Stilton, I presume you mean tasting menus? Have never been and am not willing to pay to go. Those prices are just crazy.
On reflection, I don't think we accommodated any substitutions at all when I was working at one of Gary Rhodes' restaurants. In general though, I didn't have issues if a person wanted something different than what was on the menu. The issue was if a person wanted a dish prepared differently. That is often more of a production issue than it is some artistic issue. Gary Rhodes' was the exception to that, but it was a shithole in every way.
Preparing things differently is going too far, I agree. That's just pure personal taste - no one is allergic to braising, as far as I know. I've certainly gotten tasting menus knowing that one of the items wasn't ideally how I'd like it, but hey, life's tough sometimes, right?
to begin with, you are surrendering control when you go out to eat. you get to choose what to eat; you have limited control after that. you can be an old lady and tell the waitperson (!) that you want the pine nut encrusted tofu medium rare, but once your order is on the spindle ( or wutever they call that thing ), it's out of your hands. my prix fixe meals ( and it is prix fixe ) were well-chosen by the chef and the food was cooked to a fine turn. i simply didn't enjoy the featured ingredients as much as i thought i might. and as to the quality of the restaurants. Ken Frank's La Toque was top rated in Gault Millau LA, and Napa Rose pulled 28/30 points in Zagat 2010, if that means anything.
As has been said - prix fixe is different than what we are talking about it, but you're just making a semantic argument which is different than what I'm talking about. Omakase is giving someone else control over everything you eat. Momofuku Ko - I assume going in you don't know the menu.
If you didn't enjoy the food, that speaks more to the quality of the restaurant in putting the tasting menu together, not the concept of tasting menus. As for the ratings of the restaurants...........shrug. As I've said, I've turned down free meals at Le Bernadin and it has 3 Michelin stars. Tastes are inherently subjective.
Next year I'm probably going well north of there and have been joking about hitting French Laundry, although I don't actually know if it's just famous or if it's worth the time.
i'm afraid you just don't get it. at La Toque the food didn't appeal to ME. i went with a friend and she was thrilled. i was pleased for her. i did my best to cover up my disappointment. at Napa Rose, i was with my wife. neither of us loved the meal. i don't think there was anything inherently wrong with it. sometimes a featured ingredient sounds good but it doesn't play as well as you hoped. that doesn't mean that most other people wouldn't love it. i'm not recommending against prix fixe dining. i just wouldn't do it again, even if it was a bacon fest. well, maybe that.
I think I can dig up a good taco cart recommendation if you want. You make it sound like you go to restaurants to order burgers with only mayo and bun. I'm not sure what the big difference between prix fixe and ordering anything else on the menu. You see what it is and either order it or not. I agree to a point, but isn't quality sort of quantifiable to a degree? I went to Marlowe & Sons recently and their famous brick chicken was so salty that it burned your mouth. I assume it was a slip by the kitchen, but it probably tends to be salty anyway, but this strikes me as something most can agree on. I like food really salty and this was over the top, and I realize that a lot of midscale places like to be generous with the sodium. If I'm spending $200 per person on a meal, I want the quality to blow my mind, even if I don't love every dish. Can we distinguish between what we like and what we know is good? It seems we should be able to but maybe not.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/rudys-taco-shop-solana-beach Okay, I'm not a "fancy" guy. But Rudy's is an insanely good taco shop. I believe it is the original home of fish tacos and they are awesome. There are a whole bunch of good Italian restaurants in the Gaslamp District. I believe this is the one I ate at, and if it is, it was quite good. http://lastradasandiego.com/
at La Toque, since we are now down to specifics, the meal was centered around truffles. i had heard that truffles are the best thing imaginable, but i didn't find them to be the equivalent of nectar and ambrosia. call me crazy. dessert was truffle ice cream. you would think that would be delightful. fungus ice cream! what could be better? for me, not le nec plus ultra des douces. the meal at La Toque was $65 a person in about 1992. Ken Frank is considered a genius among foodies. if i'm going to spend that much ( $200 ) on a meal, and i don't love every dish, it's my partly my fault. i can own that. i've spent a few bucks on meals that were "just OK". we don't eat out a lot, so when we do, my preference is to go to really top notch places. La Toque was ( it was sold in 1993 or so ) and Napa Rose is.