F1 - 2010 Season

Discussion in 'Automotive' started by Juan Carlos II, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. qwidgibo

    qwidgibo New Member

    Nov 9, 2009
    Genève, Switzerland
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    I heard US F1 won't race during the first 4 races
     
  2. kronic160

    kronic160 Member

    Apr 21, 2005
    Mars
    This would be a good move for REDBULL... I personally think Webber is overrated and with Vettel beating him last year proved that. Bring Kimi back!:D

    *******

    Former world champion Kimi Raikkonen could turn his back on rallying and return to Formula 1 as a direct replacement for Mark Webber at Red Bull - if the Australian decides to quit the sport next season.
     
  3. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    That's what they asked for. I guess the FIA would like to gather as many guarantees as possible to allow that ; I don't see giving them the spot if it's clear that the team is not viable. OTOH, the F1 world would like to have an US F1 team, so if it helps them to have this delay and start properly, the FIA may accept.


    Underrated maybe in the sense that he's no WC material but Webber is still a good driver capable of winning races and a good asset for the team. Now, if he retires on his own and that Kimi takes the seat, that would be a smooth transition and good opportunity for both RBR and Räikkönen.
     
  4. EstebanLugo

    EstebanLugo Member

    Mar 18, 2007
    N of your DB
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  5. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Re: Respuesta: Re: F1 - 2010 Season

    These are some harsh words...but I agree...
     
  6. HardHatMike

    HardHatMike DOOOOOOOOM!

    Traktor Nebraska
    Aug 31, 2005
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just found out that my travel pass to go over to Bahrain for the GP was denied. :mad:
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Ok, so here the latest news about the USF1 vs Stefan GP battle.

    USF1 definitely won't be able to race in Bahrain, they admitted that much. They probably won't be able to join the grid for the first four races, and if their previous talk is anything to go by, then it's even more than that.
    Apparently, a FIA delegation is at their facility in order to find out whether all is lost.
    On top of that, there are still a lot of unresolved financial woes. So I'd be surprised to actually see USF1 compete this season

    In comes Stefan GP, who have taken over the Toyota F1 team and will present their car next week, as well as Jacques Villeneuve.
    USF1 has the entry, Stefan the car, so they met for talks about a merger, but in the end, these talks led to nothing.

    Stefan has apparently sent some equipment to Bahrain, hoping that USF1 will lose it's spot on the grid so that Stefan can move up. But an internal FIA paper appeared, telling the organizers that Stefan GP will not start at Bahrain.
    If that's true, then I also don't see them joining the grid later on. So right now, with Campos apparently saved, I'd guess that we'll only see 12 teams this season and neither USF1 nor Stefan GP will be there.
     
  8. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    With one more day of testing ahead of us, I think it's time to have a look at the different teams and their chances.

    With the new rules on refueling (or lack thereof) it's become more difficult to judge which team is where, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

    We can basically make out three groups so far:

    1) The title contenders
    Ferrari
    Mercedes
    Red Bull
    McLaren

    2) The challengers
    Sauber
    Williams
    Renault
    Toro Rosso
    Force India

    3) The newcomers
    Lotus
    Virgin
    Campos
    USF1/Stefan (?)

    Regarding group 1:
    Everybody pretty much agrees that Ferrari is the quickest so far. Behind that it's very difficult to judge, but I'd be surprised if there was much of a difference in pace between those four teams.
    McLaren have started out great at the first tests, but on Barcelona, they didn't look so great anymore and even Hamilton was unsure as to where they stand. McLaren is probably the biggest unknown here with their unique design, but there surely is a lot of potential there.
    Mercedes has been slightly off pace at first but seem to be close to Ferrari now and they're also the only team that has announced major changes ahead of Bahrain. Apparently the car we'll see at the first race will look very different. So again a big unknown here.
    Red Bull was late to unleash their latest design and they missed the first test. But since they had the best chassis by the end of the last season, I'd be surprised if they were off pace now. Adrian Newey has proven to be (one of) the best F1 car designers over the last two decades. The biggest weakness will probably be the Renault engine. It was neither as reliable, nor as powerful as the Mercedes engine last season.

    Regarding group 2:
    Very difficult to say anything. Sauber is doing really well so far, as is Force India. But every team in this group has the potential to surprise the big guys, at least at the beginning of the season. Over the course of a year, the big teams will definitely rule the field with their bigger budgets, but at the first races, everything is possible. And even in the long run, I don't think these teams will be too far off the pace.

    Regarding group 3:
    These teams will probably be quite far off the pace (~3 sec). But it will still be interesting to watch, especially the duel between Lotus and Virgin, with both teams going rather different routes. Lotus has delivered a very conservative design, while Virgin has dared to be experimental. I think a lot will come down to reliability. If the Virgin is as reliable as the Lotus car, then I see Virgin ahead, but chances are that they'll run into more technical problems with their car which has been designed on the computer to 100%.
    Campos hasn't shown us anything so far, so I can't see them doing anything. Same with USF1, should they be able to join the grid later on, they'll surely come in last every time.
    Should Stefan GP get a chance, then they might actually top group three. The 2009 Toyota actually had a pretty good design, so there is potential. It still won't be good enough for group 2 though, since they won't have any pre season tests and we don't know how much development went into the 2010 Toyota before they decided to drop out. Also, the Toyota engine was by far the least powerful one last year, and Timo Glock said that even the new Cosworth engine is much stronger. Since Stefan would be driving with Toyota engines, topping group 3 is probably the best they could hope for.
     
  9. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    BTW, Ferrari now has the ugly fin behind the air intake as well:
    [​IMG]

    I hate these things. They are sooo ugly...only the McLaren can wear it without looking stupid. FIA should make it illegal, same as with the ugly side wings in the past:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
  11. kronic160

    kronic160 Member

    Apr 21, 2005
    Mars
    The FIA is going alll about this the wrong way. They change the rules as often as they change underwear. How the hell are teams suppose to safe money if they add KERS remove KERS for one

    Another is no refueling. Alright this looks straight forward except, that now teams have to design bigger tanks and then they have to do more aero and testing to figure out design and how to shift the weight around.

    Everytime the FIA changes something it's costing millions no matter what the change is. Diffuser cost teams millions to play catchup when Brawn was miles ahead. I'm surprised that teams are allowed to run extra components attached to the sidepods those things will be outlawed sooner or later.
     
  12. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    More news:

    1) Following the acquisition of Campos by Jose Ramon Carabante, the team will change its name and race as "Hispania Racing F1" (Hispania being the name of Carabante's company).
    The drivers will be Bruno Senna and Karun Chandhok, while Jose Maria Lopez is believed to sign as test driver.

    2) USF1 is done for. The FIA has apparently denied them the opportunity to skip this year and instead join the grid next year.
    USF1 is still hoping to secure a spot on the 2011 grid, but they have to start anew and with their debacle this year, I don't think it looks so good...
    For the time being, USF1 has halted any work on the racing car and effectively shut down the company.
     
  13. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    I agree to an extend...especially the KERS thing was very weird...right at a time when everybody was talking about saving costs, the FIA introduced a completely new technology.

    At least for Williams, this might start to pay off now, as their technology is in a new Porsche and will be tested at the 34 hours of the Nürbugring with at least an outside chance of volume production. But generally, it was a foolish idea by the FIA to begin with.

    I'm not sure what my position on the refueling issue is. At first, I was completely against banning refueling, as I enjoyed the tactical aspects of F1 which came via the stops.
    My position on this has changed though and now I'm in a neutral state and willing to give it a chance - the hope is that it'll lead to more passing maneuvers...we'll see, but I'm somewhat skeptical about it. It will safe some costs in the mid term, although there would have been other options while keeping the refueling, like in the DTM:
    [​IMG]
     
  14. kronic160

    kronic160 Member

    Apr 21, 2005
    Mars
    Okay I have to put in my 2 cents here. How does this save cost? The car still have to go the distance with the same amount of fuel. Just this way they fill up the car beforehand. They still need the rigs for qualifying, practice and to fill the cars up before the race.

    Now to save costs that means sharing rigs which means that each team might have to share gas companies and we know that Ferrari and Shell would not like that.:D
     
  15. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    The equipment needed in order to refill a car during the race is however very expensive, both acquiring it as well as transporting and operating it.

    It won't be a lot of money that is saved compared to the generally rather high total costs, but it will safe money.
    But as I said, Im not sure it'll be worth it...if it turns out to encourage more passing, then I'll be all for it...we'll have to wait and see...
     
  16. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Here's the official entry list for the 2010 season:


    McLaren Mercedes (GBR)
    1 Jenson Button (GBR)
    2 Lewis Hamilton (GBR)

    Mercedes Benz GP (DEU)
    3 Michael Schumacher (DEU)
    4 Nico Rosberg (DEU)

    Red Bull Racing Renault (AUT)
    5 Sebastian Vettel (DEU)
    6 Mark Webber (AUS)

    Ferrari (ITA)
    7 Felipe Massa (BRA)
    8 Fernando Alonso (ESP)

    Williams Cosworth (GBR)
    9 Rubens Barrichello (BRA)
    10 Nico Hulkenberg (DEU)

    Renault (FRA)
    11 Robert Kubica (POL)
    12 Vitaly Petrov (RUS)

    Force India Mercedes (IND)
    14 Adrian Sutil (DEU)
    15 Vitantonio Liuzzi (ITA)

    STR Ferrari (ITA)
    16 Sebastien Buemi (CHE)
    17 Jaime Alguersuari (ESP)

    Lotus Cosworth (MAL)
    18 Jarno Trulli (ITA)
    19 Heikki Kovalainen (FIN)

    HRT Cosworth (ESP)
    20 TBA
    21 Bruno Senna (BRA)

    BMW Sauber Ferrari (CHE)
    22 Pedro de la Rosa (ESP)
    23 Kamui Kobayashi (JPN)

    Virgin Cosworth (GBR)
    24 Timo Glock (DEU)
    25 Lucas di Grassi (BRA)



    Then there's this:

    Why the fcuk is it not possible for a replacement team to enter the F1? Especially when this team essentially has everything needed to compete? Stefan's status is more advanced than that of Hispania (former Campos).
    I have a sneaky suspicion that there's something going on behind the scenes. Stefanovic must have pissed in Jean Todt's cereal or something...

    Either the FIA wants 13 teams or not. I don't get it...also, Stefan has been ready for a while now. Only the FIA is to blame for the fact that it has taken so long. Why should Stefan (and all the viewers who prefer a bigger field) suffer for the incompetence over at the FIA - incompetence with both, the selection process as well as how they dealt with the recent problems over at Campos and USF1. I don't understand how teams like Stefan or Prodrive were left out...

    I mean I can see the appeal of an American F1 team in order to raise interest for the pinnacle of motor sports across the pond, but once it has became clear that USF1 was dead in the water, the FIA should have acted!
     
  17. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    So I just read a couple of quotes from Ecclestone regarding the USF1/Stefan debacle.

    I don't know whether these quotes were from before or after the FIA published their statement saying that no new teams will be allowed, but it makes me slightly more hopeful (still not very much though), even if they're from before.

    Ecclestone said the following (I'm paraphrasing):

    • Only the FIA decides whether a new team can join or not, not the teams [which could have been problematic for Stefan].
    • A bidding process so close to the start of the season doesn't make sense.
    • Stefan claims to be ready for Bahrain.
    • With the negative experiences made with the USF1 team, the FIA won't just accept Stefan because they say that they're ready.
    • The FIA will examine Stefan GP, should they come to a positive conclusion, Stefan GP can race in Bahrain

    We'll know really soon...
     
  18. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I read the addition of Stefan GP would need an unanimous approval from current teams. Ferrari made it clear they''ll be against that...

    Well, the selecting process for teams was strange but it was Mosley's fault basically ; Todt has to deal with the hot potato. Prodrive was denied because they wouldn't use the Cosworth and now the FIA find themselves in a situation where they would approve a new team using a Toyota. Sounds like a contradiction. And Ecclestone can say what he wants but I think Todt will make a point to prove that he actually has the authority on such matters.

    As far as I'm concerned, the selection process should be reset but for next year. After all, that is unfair to other bidders to accept StefanGP just like that. But if they race so be it.

    Looks like with the return of F1 to the early nineties era, we also have to bear the less glorious aspects with teams coming and leaving swiftly and a certain chaos on the grid. Well, to some extent, there's always a bit of chaos coming with more freedom. Let's just hope the FIA can somewhat clean this mess in the future...
     
  19. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    The KERS may be back in 2012 or beyond but under another form. It's said to be compulsory and in a philosophy that would make the F1 cars being effectively hybrid ; the engines may be smaller 1.5 L turbo charged as well. The KERS system would be a single spec one like the current compulsory FIA electronic central unit.

    That said, I agree with you that it was a foolish idea to introduce it as it's been done last season.

    Oh, there will be a lot of tactical expects due to tire degradation believe me ! Especially from backmarkers or second tiers making gambles...

    Keeping refuelling stops but only with gravity refuelling -like on this picture- was maybe a cheaper way to change the rules...But by banning those, the FIA will also be able to impose the amount of fuel used during a race by decreasing the maximum tank capacity and therefore promote more sober racing.
     
  20. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Well, I have no problems with KERS as such, it was just very odd that Mosley was hammering the FOTA for not bowing down to some of his stupid cost cutting ideas (single spec engine for example) while at the same time introducing a new technology and making the teams develop their own KERS system within such a short period of time.
    Although I don't think that KERS should be single spec. I enjoy the competitive nature of F1 and this should include as many aspects as possible.

    Generally, I'm all for smaller, turbo charged engines though. I think this would also benefit the action. Naturally aspirated engines can't really take advantage of the slipstream of the car in front, as the amount of air that gets sucked into the air intake is reduced when driving in the "dirty air", effectively reducing the power output.
    With turbo charged engines, there's no such problem (but the negative effects of dirty air on the cars' handling remain of course).


    Maybe so. But I remember the days before the re-introduction of refueling, so I can compare it and there simply isn't as much tactical depth as with the refueling. The best case for refueling is probably the 1998 Hungary race where Brawn and Schumacher switched strategy (from two to three stops) in mid race and Schumacher had to gain 20 seconds on Häkkinen in 18 laps...which he did.

    What the new rules will do however is putting the focus on how a car handles its tires. We will mostly see 1-stop races, but the nicer the car treats the tires, the more flexibility we'll see regarding when to take the stop, depending on the race situation.


    I think this might very well be the real reason behind all this...but I don't think that anyone who cares about auto racing really cares about how much fuel the cars need. Plus, even with refueling, they could have limited the maximum amount of gas for a race, but then the savings wouldn't be as obvious to the casual "green" spectator.
     
  21. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    I've read this before as well, but Ecclestone negated this.

    Agreed, but now Todt's in charge and he can at least try to make some things right...

    He does, but Bernie is still Bernie...I'd be surprised if he just talked out of his ass...

    It might not be fair, but it would be the pragmatic thing to do. Stefan GP has a car after all...and I'd like to see as many teams as possible, preferably those that won't embarrass themselves. Stefan GP has a good chance of being such a team. USF1 certainly didn't have that and I don't see HRT having that either.

    As it stands, we will see HRT trailing the field (if they even make it to Bahrain) and Lotus and Virgin will battle it out for the #10 constructors spot. With the remnants of the Toyota team, Stefan could make at least those two teams run for their money and maybe even more than that.

    Plus, at first Lola was considered as stand-by team in case one of the others wouldn't make it until Lola withdrew its application. So why not consider Stefan GP the stand-by team now, given that they actually have a car (which at the very least is more than HRT has). The FIA wanted 13 teams, now they have 12 and a 13th which is begging to participate. It should be given the chance to do so.

    Well, I have no problem with that actually. I can remember a time when qualifying actually meant that you had to qualify for the race, because there were more cars than could be fit on the starting grid.

    While I can't see those times coming back, I rather have 13 teams and a little bit of chaos at the end, than only 8 or 9 teams...the alternative would have been to demand (or at least allow) 3 cars by every team, but with Mosley bullying Honda, BMW, Toyota and Renault (at least in part) out of F1, this is no longer a realistic option.
     
  22. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    A glimpse of the HRT car designed by Dallara on Bruno Senna's twitter account.

    http://twitpic.com/16kt1s

    Of course, no sponsors yet but WTF is that colour scheme ? It reminds me of some very ugly wallpapers of the 70's ! :eek:
     
  23. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    I actually kinda like it...kinda Pop Artsy...:D
    Only the way the two stripes have been implemented is a little bit awkward.


    I think it's actually more like the 1960s though...reminds me of something like this:
    [​IMG]


    From the look of it, it's a solid design though...I know that looks are deceiving here, but it looks faster than the Lotus...
     
  24. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Here's another picture of the HRT car:

    [​IMG]
     
  25. kronic160

    kronic160 Member

    Apr 21, 2005
    Mars
    6 seconds off pole? 5:1 odds any takers?:D
     

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