Here is my proposal: 32 teams. Conmebol+Guyana+Surinam=12 teams(south america) NAFC+CCCF=10 teams(north and central america) Jamaica, T&T, Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Rep, PuertoRico=6 teams(caribbean big countries) And 4 more teams(previous competition) for the other caribbean INDEPENDENT countries. For example: Grenada, Antigua & Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados. So here we have our 32 teams. 8 groups of 4 teams. Using the actual FIFA ranking(as of after the 2010 world cup) for the hosts of each group. The groups are balanced according to the futbol level of each team. The colors mean the futbol level of each team. Red/Blue/Purple/Black This is how all the groups would look like. Brazil/El Salvador/Cuba/Surinam Argentina/Honduras/Canada/Belize Uruguay/Panama/Haiti/Grenada Chile/Costa Rica/Guyana/Antigua & Barbuda USA/Venezuela/Guatemala/Dominican Republic Paraguay/Peru/T&T/Barbados Mexico/Colombia/Nicaragua/Bahamas Ecuador/Bolivia/Jamaica/Puerto Rico Best 2 of each group go to the knockout round, then quarterfinal etc. I think this Copa America would be the best by far. And the money involved would be a lot. I think this Copa America has nothing to envy the EuroCopa.
Thats insane at least for now Brazil and Argentina would destroy everyone in their groups. First the gold cup should expand to 16 competitive teams which right it can't, before trying to combine with Copa America. I think CONCACAF only has 8 to 10 teams that could compete in Copa America and that is being generous. How can you consider Argentina and Belize a balanced group?
first off i see you haven´t watched the eurocopa in your life. how can you consider putting italy and Faroe Islands in the same group? or spain with liechtestein? or germany with san marino? or holland with luxembourg? so how can you consider this a balanced group?
I have watched the Euro's have you? The Faroe Islands and Liechtestein weren't even in Euro's. Perhaps you mean the Euro qualifiers? If you meant to create a bunch of "balanced" qualifying groups in which everyone participates as is the case when the Faroe Islands has to take on the stronger competitors in Europe and not at the actual European Championship tournament (which is different then qualifiers) you would need to include everyone in CONCACAF. Of course if everyone in CONCACAF is in the qualifiers at once like Europe we need bigger groups then just 4 per group. There were 35 countries in CONCACAF alone that tried to qualify for the WC this last cycle adding the 10 CONMEBOL members that makes a 45 or more country qualifier for a regional tournament (not including semi autonomous countries/colonies like Guadalupe that take part in regional competitions and not WC qualifiers). Good luck sceduling that against WC qualifying and getting countries to send their A teams in a region that puts little value in regional tournaments unlike Europe.
my bad, you are right. i didnt put that. the groups i put there were the qualifiers, then from each group the best 2 go to the copa america. but the thing is that there are a lot of islands that are not independent so they couldnt compete. there are only 4 more countries that are independent.
There are more Caribbean nations that participate in CONCACAF then you listed and like I said colonies like Guadalupe do participate in the gold cup so why not copa america if they merge? FIFA allows them to just not wc qualifiers regardless of their independence (Puerto Rico isn't fully independent). So why/how would they not be allowed but teams that are worse like Belize are allowed to qualify?
you are right again, but i really find it stupid to do a copa america with all that tiny islands to just get beated by any conmebol country by 15-0. so how would it be possible to exclude them from a continental cup?
Copa America actually is the best as it can be, and actually it doesn`t envy anything from Eurocopa. If it ever would have almost all the teams from CONCACAF, playing in it with 32 teams (10 from CONMEBOL + 22 from CONCACAF), than it would be the worse Copa America, since of the level of the teams, it would transform it into a minor tournament, and by any way not even comparable to Eurocopa.
I think the only realistic way of getting some CONCACAF countries into copa america beyond the current invite only method is if they take 6 concacaf nations not more. you could take 6 from the hex, gold cup position or some ideas that have been posted in this forum http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1475484 but CONMEBOL would never do it.
Now here is a proposal that can have an opportunity to succeed. But first CONCACAF must lobby it with CONMEBOL, otherwise its impossible. You got to realize, that Copa America is a traditional CONMEBOL tournament, that has long history within it, and by no way the teams within CONMEBOL are going to give it away. As a second issue, it is very likely that even if it has a big other confederation participation, it is unlikely ever going to be played outside of South America, and also under the terms established by CONMEBOL.
but as you said conmebol would never accept not letting bolivia or peru not participating. well but we could use the groups i made just for the qualification and the best 2 of each group advance to the copa america so it would have 16 teams. lets say 4 groups with 4 teams: Brazil/USA/El Salvador/Venezuela Argentina/Mexico/Colombia/Honduras Uruguay/Panama/Paraguay/Peru Chile/Costa Rica/Ecuador/Bolivia
Anzo89, my friend, you got to realize, CONMEBOL will never accept an America Cup with other teams diferent than CONMEBOL teams, if only one team from CONMEBOL is not in it. Besides you seem to not understand that all the teams within CONMEBOL are great teams, there is no minnows in it. The worst team in it, can beat the best team in it. FIFA rankings are not so reliable within CONMEBOL. In CONMEBOL you dont see the diference between Mexico v/s Belize or USA v/s Barbados. In there, there is only two levels, Top tier (Brazil & Argentina) and low tier (all the rest), everyone can finish third and anyone can finish last, but from time to time a low tier team beats one of the top tier ones. Its how things are in CONMEBOL, and that`s the reason why America Cup is so competitive. As an example of what I`m saying, is that during the qualifiers for this past WC, Argentina (Top tier), only achieved its classification to the WC in the very last match day. If Uruguay had defeated Argentina in that last game, and Ecuador would`ve defeated Chile, Uruguay would`ve classified direct, and Ecuador would have had to play Costa Rica. Even Venezuela had a very low possibility have had classified. Only Bolivia and Peru didn`t have a chance on match day 18. Argentina wouldn`t even have played this WC and would have been completely eliminated. That`s how tight are things in CONMEBOL. I don`t think you can say the same about CONCACAF.
you know,"my friend", you are so right. i havent noticed that, bueno primero que nada hablemos en español jaja. te decia q no habia notado eso q dijiste, q todos en la conmebol en teoria tienen chance de clasificar, eso en ninguna otra confederacion sucede. pero igual asi yo sigo comparandome con europa y ellos tienen a italia,francia,holanda,alemania,españa,portugal e inglaterra que esos vendrian a equivaler a argentina y brasil. entonces los otros como chile, uruguay y paraguay equivaldrian a los que son de segunda categoria en europa. eso es lo q MAS me molesta. y no le encuentro solucion a eso y me desahogo armando una copa america mas grande que quién sabe en qué cambiaría ésta situación?. vos compartís mi frustración?
Es altamente frustrante, y es lo que me da más rabia cuando escucho los comentarios que tienden a comparar los equipos de este lado del mundo con otros continentes. La mayoría de los países que no son Brasil, Argentina o Uruguay, tienen poca historia en los Mundiales, porque antiguamente para clasificar había que ganarles a uno de ellos, o sea, casi imposible. Cuando FIFA cambió a 32 equipos, solo nos asignó 1 o 2 puestos más, lo que significa que todos tenemos que sacarnos la "cresta" por esos puestos adicionales. Pero independiente del extraoridinario resultado que obtuvimos esta copa, parece que FIFA igual nos va a quitar otro puesto. ¿quién entiende a la FIFA?. En el fondo FIFA no quiere que hayan más de 5 equipos de CONMEBOL, sea como sea. Más encima crean un ranking en donde dependiendo de los resultados obtenidos uno saca puntos y el que tiene más queda por encima del que tiene menos. Es lógico, pero no se puede comparar un partido entre 2 paises de CONMEBOL, con otros de Africa, Asia, Oceanía, CONCACAF e incluso con la mayoría de los partidos de la UEFA. Para FIFA es lo mismo. Frustrante, que te voy a decir. En todo caso tener una mejor Copa América, no se trata de tener más equipos, se trata de que sea lo más competitiva posible y cuando tú tienes equipos más malos, los resultados de los que tienen que jugar contra ellos afectan o pueden afectar en forma notable el desarrollo del torneo. En el afán de FIFA de aumentar cupos en la Copa Mundial, de distintas regiones por sobre el nivel, hacen que hayan grupos muy difíciles y otros muy fáciles, por lo que si te toca una llave más fácil, puedes llegar a instancias mayores, mientras que si te toca una llave difícil, Chaíto temprano !! no más. Para todo esto y pasar nuestras frustraciones es que nos queda la Copa América y las eliminatorias locales, en donde todos los que jugamos en ellas sabemos muy bien contra quienes tenemos que jugar, en donde FIFA tiene poca injerencia y todos los equipos de la CONMEBOL, tienen la misma opción. Actualmente contra quien te toque es difícil, pero en todos los grupos pasa lo mismo. Nadie la tiene fácil. Esto es bueno para el nivel del torneo. Para que arruinarla metiendo equipos malos en ella. Si hay que crecer, que sea nivelando para mejor, no para peor.
si pero es q la comparacion con los equipos de europa es inevitable. o nunca escuchaste el dicho(por parte de los europeos) que la euro copa es el mundial sin brasil y argentina? dios q calentura me da eso! y los otros equipos qué? yo creo que por mi pais solo me queda ponerme contento sobre el 4to puesto logrado por 30 o 40 años más hasta que hagamos algo interesante de nuevo. es q ellos a la copa america ni le dan importancia. no viste tambien que la champions league es LA locura y la libertadores en comparacion es una bosta. creo que quizás por eso quise unir a todo america en algo asi al menos tenemos mas relevancia y mas plata, poder, notoriedad etc. además brasil ultimamente para la copa america lleva la seleccion b para jugar. y argentina a veces si a veces no. y ahora mex trae la sub 23, sinceramente me parece una verguenza y demuestra lo caida que está la copa america en popularidad. pareciera como si ya nadie quisiera jugarla o ganarla. el poder y la plata están en mex y eeuu, bueno unamonos con ellos y de seguro la copa reviviria.
$$$$$$ rules. Lamentablemente, somos paises pobres y allá hay mejor situación económica. Pero a pesar de esto, comparativamente hablando, aunque les duela, tenemos el mejor Futbol del Mundo, no por resultados si no que por calidad de juego, y hagan lo que hagan, para poder darles atractivo a sus propios campeonatos, necesariamente aunque no lo quieran reconocer, tienen que darse una vueltita por estos lados para venir a buscar a los jugadores que realzan sus torneos. La Eurocopa moverá más dinero, pero también comparativamente hablando es mucho más aburrida, porque los equipos de allá carecen de la "chispa" que solo tenemos nosotros en el mundo. En todo caso, este mundial los dejamos con la boca bien apretadita y cerrada. De 5 equipos, todos clasificaron para segunda ronda, esto nunca lo ha conseguido Confederación alguna en el último tiempo. Ni siquiera la UEFA. Dales agüita a los Norte americanos y nos quitan la Copa América, allá también tienen más recursos $$$$$. Con el tiempo, nosotros tendríamos que pedirles permiso para jugar la Copa América a ellos. ¿Te imaginas?, no señor, yo prefiero seguir como hasta ahora, esta Copa es nuestra. Que sean ellos los que pidan permiso para jugar en ella. Creo que la movida de traer a Japón, quien también tiene harto $$$$$, les duele y por ello para la próxima edición, de seguro intentarán hacer algo para evitar perder con respecto a los asiáticos (imagínate este mercadito Japón, Corea del Sur, China), después llorarían por ser partícipes.
si, es cierto, se corre el riesgo de que despues eeuu quiera ser el organizador de la copa america siempre en su pais como lo hace ahora con la gold cup. pd: ya q sos de chile te digo q uno de mis jugadores favoritos es bonsejour, fa q jugadorazo, le hayo mucho parecido con el uruguayo el cebolla rodriguez. los 2 meten una garra impresionante.
No hay que ser gran adivino para saber quien ganará la Gold Cup casi siempre. Fuera de México, nadie más que los locales. Aunque solo sea por joderlos, mejor que la gane CUBA,
Should CONCACAF merge with CONMEBOL? (Part 2) I have read some debates that was locked. I have an idea that I thought it has not been mentioned here in locked thread. So I wanted to bring it up and tell you my idea: I have looked at the map and saw that there is 10 nations right on the North America continental, that includes Central America nations. I counted up to 10 nations on the North America map. Caribbeans nations will be discussed right after I explain everything below. North America nations: Canada, USA, Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaraguan, Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, and Belize merge with CONMEBOL. I propose that CONCACAF excluding Caribbean nations should merge with the CONMEBOL nations to count to 20 nations with a catch: CONMEBOL nations can keep their own WCQ process and the North America can create a WCQ with the league system similar that CONMEBOL has to try to qualify for the WC. FIFA should give merged federations with 9 spots. At the end of the league system, the 5th place teams from North America and South America face each other for a two-legged playoff for the final spot for the WC. As for the Copa America competition, just have all nations participate in it with a catch: those teams who finished 9th and 10th place in their WCQ are eliminated from the Copa America competition and we would have 16 nations, 8 nations each from North America and South America. Each pool should consists of 2 N.A. and 2 S.A. teams. The Copa America should be held at the same time the EURO, that way, it would draw a massive global event every two years (Copa America, EURO, etc & World Cup). Now, for Caribbeans nations, I understand that it would deprive them from having a real competition and money they enjoy being part of CONCACAF. I propose that all Caribbeans nations should merge with Oceania (O.F.C.). I realize that it would make traveling a real bad so here is what I propose, create two divisions within OFC. Western Hemisphere division and Eastern Hemisphere division. With this merge, the FIFA ought to give OFC a guaranteed spot for the World Cup no matter what. It would give the smaller nations a chance to participate in the World Cup finals without having them to face a bigger and stronger federation for a playoff they used to face in the past. This would make it feel like the real World Cup regardless of minnow status it might be. With those division set-up, they can hold a WCQ within their own time zone and have them to meet for a two legged play-off between a nation that comes out of Western Hemisphere division and Eastern Hemisphere division for a spot to the World Cup finals. With this OFC merge, it gives OFC Nations Cup competition bigger and better than ever before. With those 16 nations set-up, the West and the East can meet once every 4 years with equal number of nations from Caribbeans and the Oceania island nations compete. This OFC Nations Cup can be held during the same time as EURO and Copa America. That leads us to create a new international date, permanently. Since CAF and AFC held those competition at different years and different time. Why not have those competition held at the same time around the world. All champion of this regional competition can come and meet for the Confederation Cup competition that can be held 2 weeks after EURO, Copa America, OFC Nations Cup, African Nations Cup and Asia Nations Cup along with the host and the WC champions. This would count up to 7 teams so we would need one more. Since Copa America has two division so just send them the top teams that are not a Copa America champion. For example: Uruguay is the champion so send Mexico as their top team if they were eliminated in the semi-finals or something like that. There is no need for a group stage in the Confederation Cup, just start the competition with the knockout bracket due to too many games being played. So the Confederation Cup champion would have played 9 total games in one month (3 group stage of their own regional competition, 3 knockout games and 3 Confederation Cup knockout games). As for first round of Confederation Cup, World Cup Champion who failed to win their regional competition must face off with the host team for two-legged first round playoff game with the World Cup champion being the home team first before going to the host country for the second leg. The purpose of this is to give both teams a stiffer penalty for not winning their regional competition with travel and more games as a result. Rest of the teams' first round is only one-off game in the host country of Confederation Cup. That's all.
Re: Should CONCACAF merge with CONMEBOL? (Part 2) Everything you say can be done with out the merger, just split the 10 continental countries from the Islands, but I have a feeling FIFA would not give 3 spots to the new federation, they would leave 1 or 1/2 with the CFU and reallocate 1 to a different confederation. Also right now Conmebol gets 4.5 and Concacaf gets 3.5, The Caribbean would at least keep the .5 (like Oceania) so the merger would only receive 7.5 spots So the way it would have to be would be top 3 North American and Top 4 Conmebol go straight into the World cup Then 4th North America vs. 5th Conmebol for the .5
Re: Should CONCACAF merge with CONMEBOL? (Part 2) Top 3 for North America and top 4 for CONMEBOL ? Man, North America is just Mexico and Usa, which by the way are mediocre teams.. Conmebol has Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay... A merger would simply just not work
Re: Should CONCACAF merge with CONMEBOL? (Part 2) No. No. A thousand times no. It's fine the way it is.
Re: Should CONCACAF merge with CONMEBOL? (Part 2) Absolutely terrible idea. If you are merging the confederations then all the spots need to be in play. You can do qualifyers by having groups. If there are 7.5 spots then you have 5 groups of 4. Home and Away games would be played. Also you seed by Fifa rankings the first 2 teams per group. The best 2 move through, and then you have 2 groups of 5. Top 3 from each group make it directly to the world cup and 4th place finishers play each other. The issue would be travel, but because you are reducing the number of games that may be played, to a maximum of 16 games and minimum of 6, then it wouldn't be as complicated. Right now in the top pot of seedings you would have Brazil, Urguay, Argentina, Chile, Mexico. The second Pot would be Peru, Paraguay, US, Colombia, Venezuela. Under these conditions, I would still expect all the top pot teams to make it through but it would be interesting what would happen to the second pot teams, particulary the US, which always had its qualifications as a given.
Re: Should CONCACAF merge with CONMEBOL? (Part 2) First of all, We will not break them up into 4 or 5 groups. That's incredibly unfair to the smaller football nations. Down here in the Conmebol, We got rid of having two groups for that reason. Everyone needs a fair shot and there is a huge $$$$$$ Potential. The conmebol has 10 nations playing 18 rounds. The concacaf can add 10 nations and we can split them right in half having two Groups of 10 playing 18 rounds..With the Addition of all the Countries into one America. We can push to get 8 direct Spots which would give each groups 4 spots.. Group A : Argentina, Uruguay, Peru, Bolivia, Colombia, Mexico, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Jamaica, Panama Group B: Brasil, Paraguay, Chile, Ecuador, Venezuela, USA, Honduras, Guatemala, Canada Granada/T&T/Guadalupe HAHAHHA. 4 top from each group...
