Can kids socialize without playing HS sports. Really? Don't come back with a dumb remark that the only speed is zero or 100. You and I know that is not the truth. Let's try this again. Here is what I remember from playing HS soccer. - Regional / state tournament - Playing in front of actual fans - Wearing my uniform at school - Recognition that I was on a team - Being a part of something special - Strong bond with my teammates - etc. Here is what I remember about playing Club Soccer (what would have been a DA team 20 years ago). - Winning lots of games - Good coaches - Cool uniforms Comparing both, club soccer had nothing on HS. As I am an old man now (in my thirties) I realize that giving everything away to play club soccer would be pretty silly since myself and everyone else I know ended up going to college and getting decent jobs. Chasing a dream of playing on a national team or pro is pretty silly in the US for soccer. There is no point except for maybe 30-40 kids a year (certainly not the 2000 that play DA).
I agree with this and can relate as well... I played through college but understood that it was never going to go beyond that. I had the same memories in HS and Club as you did. But I was not as gifted as many others who had the potential to go beyond college. And for those players, Club Soccer was and now is even more so, there to support them - that is the value of Club Soccer at the DA level IMO. Additionally - we all talk about the end result as being a "National Team" or going pro. What about becoming a coach? Coaching is an awesome job in of itself. There are plenty of solid - paid coaches who did not play pro or tour in Europe who are making a living today and doing a fine job developing good soccer players.
Is it really silly or are you just saying that because you disagree? They are not killing HS soccer. How can you say they are doing so? The DAs cannot and do not want to take all the HS soccer players! They just want a select group of them - those they like at DA tryouts and those who want more from soccer. You do not need the best athletes in soccer. Do the best athletes play soccer in other countries? I'm sure Spain has better athletes than Xavi, for example - Rafael Nadal who plays tennis. This is a very bad misconception in US that we need the best athletes to play soccer. Most coaches look for the athletes, thinking they can teach skills and intelligence to every athlete. I think it is about time those coaches find out that is not how it works. That is changing though, little by little. "Understanding" is not the right word to use, nevertheless. They seldom play any sport in the neighborhoods anymore! Everything is in organized form. That is why rec sports programs exist - rec soccer, rec baseball, rec basketball, etc. I agree with that. Parents are afraid of their kids specializing too early because they listen or read to bogus articles and people selling their own agendas. BTW, "no focus on the game until the kids are too old" could also mean no focus until kids are playing HS soccer......right? No argument here. Yes, that is true. And the structure of youth development is one of them. That structure includes HS soccer having talented players, which are wasted. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against HS soccer nor is USSF against HS soccer. It is a good option for those who do not plan to play beyond that level or do not want to reach the highest level or do not have the talent and ability to play at a higher level. All I'm saying is that HS soccer (and college soccer for that matter, but that is a different discussion) is not going to help develop our most promising players to compete internationally with other players from other countries, who at that age are getting top professional coaching in professional environment. All USSF is trying to do is create an alternative path for those players who have bigger dreams, ambitions, talents, abilities, etc. That is not all HS aged players, it is only a select few. The rest can still and probably will play HS soccer or other HS sports. Little by little the idea and program of DA will expand and improve, hopefully leading to something better. Let's wait and see..... Exactly. So all USSF is trying to do is create a path for players where they do not go to play HS soccer, but instead practice and play in more professional environment, created to develop better players. So what are you saying? The only way kids can socialize and have a good time in HS is if they play HS sports? Really?! How do kids in other countries do without playing HS sports, hmmmm? Club and DA soccer offers those too......at a higher competitive level than HS. Those fans are not there because of soccer though.....they are fans of the school. Plus there are fans at DA games too. And that makes you better....? Being part of a DA team is also special and in many cases even more so. How strong? Did you share chicks? Strong bonds can be formed on DA or club teams also. "Good coaches"....hmmm, interesting....you do not remember "good coaches" from HS.....??? So I guess no one should dream about playing professionally, huh? What a non-sense! How many kids dream of playing in the NBA or NFL and how many of them make it? Does it stop anyone from having a program to teach these players how to fulfill their dreams? Dreams and reaching perfection are things that often seem far from our reach, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to achieve them no matter how impossible they may seem. Living life in US is about dreams and goals, and the pursuit of them. Yep! Pretty pathetic IMO.
That is fair. They are not killing HS soccer. They are killing the opportunity for kids to play HS soccer. You do not agree with what you just said or your being difficult on purpose. If the top athletes played soccer then more of the top athletes would be technically proficient at soccer and you would ultimately have more better players to choose from. I agree with that. But you are applying a solution that is applicable to 50 kids to 2000 kids. You will take from those 2000 DA players the opportunity to play HS ball. You have created a solution for the top 1% and taken from the rest. Same clubs. Same coaches other than a few months a year. I don't see it. As I stated earlier, it is not 0 MPH or 100 MPH. HS soccer in most competitive areas is a cool, fun, unique, experience. IF YOU DISAGREE WHY DID THEY HAVE TO BAN IT! Because the kids didn't want to do it! Fair. No one at a HS cares about DA. Why would they? To who? Doesn't compare to HS Actually, yeah. They don't stop kids from playing HS ball. Have your dream, but let kids be kids.
After yesterday no child should be able to play HS soccer. The sport should be banned from America for at least 20 years. Then we will bring it back under a European model and start new. lol Then maybe we would be able to make at least the Olympics.
Not for all kids! And some kids don't want to play HS anyway. They didn't in the past..... You do not get it! You do not need the top athletes to play soccer. This sport is not like basketball and football. Your logic is flawed. Just in case more top athletes would play soccer it doesn't mean the chances of more of them to be developed with better skills is higher. Other countries develop better soccer players than US, without having the best athletes playing soccer. I gave you examples with Spain. I can do the same with other countries. Have you seen what players Switzerland has currently? Do some more research, educate your self on what and how other countries develop players and then come back to argue with me, please..... How do you know it is going to be a solution for 50 out of 2000 kids? No one can tell. How many players in other countries turn professionals? Does it stop them from investing in large pool of players, most of which wont turn out to be pros? No it doesn't. And for those 2000 DA kids the opportunity to play HS soccer is still there, but maybe it is not what is their best interest. The choice is theirs to make. Nothing and no one has taking anything from the rest. It is time to create a path for that top 1%. That is where the players we need to raise the level of soccer in this country will come from. The rest still have their options and opportunities and can choose accordingly. HS soccer will continue to exist, college soccer will continue to exist, DA soccer will continue to evolve and club soccer will continue to exist. Maybe even more programs will be created. It becomes apparent to me that you "don't see it". Most people do not share your enthusiasm for HS soccer though. And no one is banning it. Some people are just making the DA program more exclusive, geared towards a specific group of players, that's all. If you do not like the DA program so much, why would you want your kid to play both HS and DA. huh? And no one at the DAs cares about HS soccer. Why should they? To enough people Others have a different opinion. Yeah, what? You do remember good coaches from HS? If now you say you do, then why wouldn't you put that down in the first place? Since you went that way, other countries do not rely on HS soccer to develop professional soccer players either. It seems to me that the only people who are against DAs decision to place this mandate against HS soccer, are people who are too stubborn to see that changes need to happen and this one of them. HS soccer may be a good option for some kids, but for others it is not and DA is a better option, a better environment. Nothing wrong with that. The US is not going to produce better players by continuously allowing its most talented players to play HS soccer (and/or college soccer). Does that mean all players should not play HS soccer? NO!
The players certainly looked like HS players playing HS soccer. Also, do not forget the "high" quality coaching by the "elite" college coach, Caleb Porter!
The coach is a college coach. I loved the way he has Akron play,but that does not mean he can translate that to the players in the under 23. Ignorant is what US soccer is. So lets put it this way Caleb coachs 6 months of the year. What does he do the remaining 6 months to make himself better? The issue is that we had a team playing on there home soil and playing for a dream that all players playing in America would love to play and he did not have them ready. Enough said
So who? Akron aside, who? Thomas Rongen again? Sigi Schmid? Or any of a number a retreads? Get another German? Maybe Argentinian? It's all so easy to say ______ isn't the answer. But then no one ever offers an alternative. This is the lot of American soccer right now. Porter has great upside as a coach and he's pretty darn good now. He's got better ideas about the game than any young coach in the past 20 years. You can't watch what he's done, not the wins, but how his teams play and not see that it's the most refreshing thing in college soccer in years. People can be so myopic.
From Soccer America All that said, writes Ives Galarcep, Porter is also young and inexperienced. Having a tournament as important as the Olympic qualifying tournament be his first major international event, might have been a step too far. As much as he did to teach a new approach and a new system, his lineup decisions and in-game management were fraught with question marks and cringe-worthy mistakes. He will be a good coach. I agree it takes time
That is why they had to ban it? The fact that they are banning it should be clear enough you are wrong. This is still the one point out of all of them that shows you are close minded, stubborn, and can't carry on a reasonable discussion. You are saying it is better to have 10 kids player soccer than 100. Everything else is equal? That having less kids to choose from is better. That makes perfect sense! How do I know. Really? How many spots are open in the MLS each year for the 2000 kids? How many MNT spots are open this year? 50 is being generous. Nope, they took that away. If some kids thought that the additional training with their DA club gave them a better chance they could have stuck around and skipped HS. But of course, no one (or very few) would do that. Your right, I see a bunch of A class coaches sitting around a room talking strategy on how to take over the world in soccer. I don't see anyone focused on the kids. This is just dumb. They are not banning it? They are letting DA kids play HS soccer. My apologies I thought they said you couldn't do that *sarcasm* Next point, most people do share my enthusiasm for HS soccer which is why they are banning it. Because they don't have to. Unfortunately you are going to sucker these kids into paying 5k a year for nothing. So you can one day hope to have a US team be competitive. I don't remember. You asked a question and I answered. Other countries live soccer, other countries watch soccer for fun on the weekend, wear jerseys, have brothers and dads that played soccer, kick the ball in the yard. HS soccer has and never was the problem. The problem is pre U14 and our culture. Generally it is the folks that love soccer but care more about our kids than the WC. Okay if there was one section you you answer answer this. If your statement above is true why were kids not choosing to stay with the DA club year round? Why did they not opt for this better coaching environment? If club is so cool as you state, why weren't they flocking their on their own accord?
You tell me.... To both of you: Whomever the coach is isn't the answer or the solution. The solution is the overall development system and selection process. How long ago was Porter hired to do the job? How long did he have to prepare the players to achieve qualification? It would be silly to higher anyone with very little time and opportunity to properly prepare and gel this selection of players to accomplish what they were picked for. Regardless of what quality the coach is, there is a difference between coaching at college level and coaching an olympic team for qualification and/or the actual Olympics. Perhaps Porter isn't ready yet. Will he be kept at his position and given time for the next cycle? I do not know. Should he be given that opportunity? That's for others to decide, I guess.
First of all, they didn't ban it. They are simply erasing the option to play both and making it "either DA or HS". And one of the reasons they did it is because there were already kids who didn't want to play or expressed no desire to play HS soccer. Same thing has been happening on the girls side as well, before and after the creation of ECNL. No, that is not what I'm saying at all. We are talking about the most athletic kids playing soccer. I'm telling you that we do not need the more athletic kids playing soccer, there are enough athletic kids as it and our coaches can't even make them into better professional or collegiate players. Do we need more kids playing the sport in general, athletic or not? Yes, it would be better, as that would increase the player pool. But we already have more youth players playing soccer than many other countries and yet we can't manage to produce better players than them. There are some countries smaller than many of our States with less number of youth players, yet they produce better players. These countries do not even work with the most athletic kids in their land. If more better players are produced, more spots can become available due to the MLS teams not needing to occupy those roster spots with 3rd rate foreigners. Moreover, for the salary price of one of those overrated foreigners, the teams can field 2-3 academy products if they are good enough and who would play better. BTW, how many spots are open in clubs from other countries and how many youth players are competing for them? The competition is fiercer than in US. Also what is their standards for accepting youth products into their professional first teams? Much higher than in US. Therefore, the chances of youth players in other countries in turning into professionals are not any higher, but that doesn't stop clubs in those other countries from investing into youth soccer, which doesn't include HS soccer, btw. No, they didn't take that opportunity away. They just can't play both anymore. And if kids (is it really the kids or their parents, btw?) didn't think the DA was worth it, they wouldn't be there in the first place. What? No one would skip HS? Yeah, right...that's way kids were already skipping it...... They are focused on the kids, at least a select group of them, because they need them. They need them so they can developed them and then "take over the world in soccer". They can't do that without the kids, so they do not have any choice but to care about the kids Again, your blindness and lack of understanding are showing. They are not banning HS soccer. They are setting the criteria based on which kids can play DA. The kids can play whatever they want, it is their choice. But if they want and choose to play DA, they cannot play anything else, including HS soccer. It is no different than a coach selecting players for his team based on commitment specifically and exclusively to soccer - if you want to play for my team and I select you (based on your talent), you can't anything else or for anyone else. That is my criteria, it is up to the player (or his parents) to choose what and where he plays. But with me in my team and/or with the DAs, you can't do both or multiple things....exclusivity, which mean focusing on specific group of players based on set criteria and standards. That is how high level soccer players are made and the game is progressed to the highest levels - at some point, at some age level, that is what has to happen eventually and it is happening at every country the US is competing with! Don't say "most people". Some share it, others do not. Those who do not, they will play in the DAs. The rest can play anything and everything else, but DA. Do all kids pay 5k a year? Do your research on the DAs. Some may pay that, others do not and perhaps even pay close to nothing. And the DAs are not suckering anyone into anything. They are very upfront about their program and everything. They inform their customers (players and parents) so their customers can make their own choices based on what they think is in their best interest. And then I asked why didn't you write that you remember good coaches from your HS experience in the first place? I suspect because it wasn't all that good or at least not as good of a coaching as at club level, otherwise you would write it down in the beginning. It wouldn't make sense not to when you are arguing with someone about DA/club vs HS and you are trying to support your side of the argument. But then....most things you write do not make sense, so therefore I shouldn't be surprised by that...... So if that isn't happening in the US or it isn't happening to the same level as in those other countries, then we should be trying to create new programs or improve existing programs to develop better players, who in turn could spark more interest and passion in the sport similar to other countries? The problem is everywhere and at every age level. But one is more likely to see younger teams playing better soccer than older ages, which HS soccer is part of. Yeah, right *sarcasm*.....because they care about the kids more than about the WC that is why those people work and/or support a limited program like HS soccer. People who care about the WC, care about the kids, because they would need to develop the kids in order to win the WC. Because they had the option to play both and many of them did, but some didn't. People will take (and choose from) whatever option (or options) is put in front of them. To use an analogy, if you are given the option (read: have enough money) to buy multiple cars and drive them all, you would do it. But if you are given the option to pick one of many cars, you would have to select one or the other, not all or multiple cars. So now that players will be given the option to play DA or HS, but not both, we will see what and how many players will choose one or the other.
It's been widely noted that our top u14 players can go to europe and compete with their academy teams. The top footballing nations just pull away at u16. My take is that at that time, their kids are entering truly professional environments and training is really ramping up. Whereas the USA kids are playing varsity in a developmentally awful three months where the games to training ratio is way out of whack. Training players has to be systematic. You can't just train 7 months then go 3 months into a completely new environment where the emphasis is win now and there are poor recovery times—no one can be playing at an optimal level with that load. Further, the training cycle is disrupted. Good HS coaches will try to peak at the end of the three months, so we just hope that the end of the HS cycle coincides with a recovery cycle for club? Plus it's asking an organization whose primary goal isn't to develop the best soccer player possible to do so. HS specializes in education. DAs specialize in soccer.
My son says he can't imagine life without being on a soccer team. I think he's being offered enough! Of course he doesn't play for a DA (if that's what this is all about), so he can play for the high school team, too.
Saw an interesting post in a state specific forum where two kids were discussing the whole DA vs HS soccer issue. At the end the kid that decided to play HS soccer told the DA player, go for it you will be "missing not missed. Hope you enjoy that tournament t-shirt and playing club soccer in college."
Let see if I have this correct, the HS players believes that he/she will be the one playing college soccer and not the DA player? Is there some advantage the HS is recieving that the DA isn't recieving? And did the HS player specifically indicated what that factor was?
He was saying that neither would be playing college soccer. I have no idea how good either kid is. The insinuation was the other was wasting his time. Of course that is not true for all kids.
Some of these DA's have 30 kids on a roster and some will travel and spend 4 days in hotels for regional tournaments like the one just held in Dallas, and some teams will still not play the reserves. I can't imagine how it must feel for a kid to commit to this level of work and time an money and travel to not even get in a game. Just don't see where those players are benefiting from that process. I hear of more and more kids, including some of the best players, who are burning out at U-16 and going back to playing on a lower level team. What a meat grinder.