Everton v The Arsenal : Sunday April 6th MATCHDAY THREAD

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by goonermaui, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Jay Rodriguez? I'd take him over second-half-of-the-season Giroud. Think we could find space for Lallana as well.
     
  2. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or Schneiderlin for Flamini/Arteta
     
  3. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been a fan of Lallana for a few years now, but he is a bench player at Arsenal.

    Schneiderlin is really really overrated, his tackling success rate is atrocious. Good passer, though, and I concede that given Arteta's current exhaustion he would be a better option.

    Rodriguez I'd only take over the knackered Giroud that we've been suffering through lately, but since everybody seems to think we need more than just a rotation option (i.e. we need a better player than Giroud), he doesn't make the cut, either.

    The real point, though, quibbling about one or two players aside, is that the enthusiasm for everything Southampton is misguided in regards to a way forward for Arsenal.
     
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  4. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    Just because someone's better than Arteta/Flamini, Giroud/Podolski doesn't mean they're at the level required to actually, you know win anything.
     
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  5. Romfordray

    Romfordray Member+

    Oct 24, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Last year it was Swansea, this year it is Southampton, next season it will be someone else. We just cannot say sign this manager to replace Arsene based on one good season. For all I know, Arsene might not be leaving. I do not get why fans say he is tactically naive. He is not. Do you not think a manager like him would not have figured out how to mark a false nice off the park? Arteta tried and so did Flamini but in the end we no longer have the legs at this part of the season to see games through.

    I am all for blaming Arsene for not building a better team or buying players but this whole Arsene is tactically naive bs needs to stop.
     
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  6. MisplacedSpainard

    Apr 5, 2007
    Silver Spring, MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain

    Does it matter if he is naive or not? If he chooses to not change their plan tactically to counter other teams he is choosing a poor tactic which is the same result. Fergie and Mourinho play a certain way, but for big games especially made getting the most out of the game was first priority. Not necessarily standing by an idealistic viewpoint that may or may not fit into reality. We are a football club and winning is part of the sport.
     
  7. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He was on every national team staffing side that Guus managed minus Russia.

    He is also credited for helping Robben stay injury-free the past couple years...in other words, the only time in his career that this has been achieved.

    I acknowledge he's a nut but his points are sound for me. Change is needed.
     
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  8. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Wenger being tactically naive is nonsense? Hahaha
     
  9. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #409 NorthBank, Apr 9, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
    How do you figure that?? Spurs was his longest stint as a player, after Rovers. Even if he left Spurs after a spat with Hoddle, you really think he hated the CLUB? If so, why would he spend 5yrs back there as an assistant mgr.

    p.s. Disagree also with your nobody-loves-their-club-anymore premise. Gerrard came first to mind. Unfortunately there are also plenty of Anelka's out there. And plenty of kids who kiss the badge just because that's what they see on TV. But thankfully those are not 100% of the data set.
     
  10. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You mean the Gerrard who wanted to leave Liverpool for Chelsea or Man Utd?
     
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  11. GunneRy

    GunneRy Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Chicago
    This. The reason Pocchetino is so good is because of the pressing defense; his teams adopt the Barca/Bayern theory of "we going to keep the ball, but if we give it up, we're going to work our ass off to get it back."
     
  12. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #412 Tonerl, Apr 9, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2014
    There is a definite element of confirmation bias at play here. 'Wenger doesn't do tactics' and 'Wenger only sets his team up to play one way' have become such memes that they are accepted as fact, and it's been going on so long that changes he makes are completely ignored if not completely unnoticed.

    For example (just off the top of my head from a recent game), the setup in the away leg versus Bayern a few weeks ago was pretty radically different from anything we've seen lately if ever. Instead of the usual 4-2-3-1 in possession and 4-4-1-1 without the ball, we played a 4-1-4-1/4-3-2-1. In our usual setup, we press with Giroud and the 10 (usually Özil, obviously), but the change meant we were pressing with 3 (Giroud, Cazorla and Oxlade-Chamberlain). This was important in a general sense because it's more aggressive, which we naturally needed to be, and in a specific sense because Wenger wanted to prevent Schweinsteiger from running the game in comfort. We dropped into a quite expansive line of three behind the pressing trio, with Podolski left and Özil right, I think in an attempt to minimize the impact of Robben and Ribery in the wide areas. In attack, having 4 instead of 3 supporting the striker is obviously more aggressive, but it was also an attempt to give our most creative player a chance to influence the game.

    As a part of the system change, Wenger moved Özil to the right for the first time (regardless of what some people will say) for two reasons. One, the high press might benefit from the greater activity of Ox and Cazorla while Özil might be better suited to the shape requirements of the deeper wide position, and two, it may be a wrinkle that allowed Özil to get on the ball with a little more time and space when we did win it back in response to Bayern's declared focus of keeping him off of it. The injury to Özil obviously hamstrings any analysis of whether these changes would've helped or harmed.

    These changes were extensive, brave and quite shocking in a way, yet went completely ignored by seemingly everybody. Wenger may not be on the bleeding edge of tactics anymore, but I think the term naïve is incredibly harsh.
     
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  13. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he's not naive, then what's your term for getting our asses whipped by Chelsea and Everton? Their setup was designed to make us weak.
     
  14. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can't legislate for players just flat giving the ball up in horrible positions for no reason and the rest of them being in no position to do anything about it. There are reasons for these things which include players being completely knackered (Arteta) or just not ready to have the burden put on them in such a critical area of the pitch (Ox) or just plain lack of ultimate quality, and some of this is Wenger's fault, too. But it isn't down to tactics.
     
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  15. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree. Arsenal consistently gives up goals when the last midfielder turns over the ball. We have both fullbacks pushed forward and the ball gets given away around the center circle, leaving only the CBs to stop the counter. The frequency with which this occurs leads me to believe that no instructions are given to shore up the defense in case of this happening. Arsene has faith that it will be fixed by having confidence in the players.
     
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  16. The Foo Fighter

    The Foo Fighter Member+

    Mar 15, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What you just described is a case of our mids losing the ball in a dangerous area, being sloppy with possession. Arsene doesn't have to tell them to work the ball out of danger, so when they are dancing on the ball like an idiot and loose it the counter is their fault. The fullbacks are supposed to be pushed up, that's how football works now. It's just a case of our mids being to fing stupid sometimes to realize that they are in trouble.
     
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  17. Romfordray

    Romfordray Member+

    Oct 24, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What about the possibility that at least one of those teams had a vastly superior talent pool to draw from? As for the Everton game, we were bare bones. Did you see the bench?
     
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  18. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I agree it's alarming when it happens and even more so that it has happened more than once or twice. However, this occurring in three games cannot be said to happen 'consistently' when we've played 49 this season.
     
  19. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never got the sense that he wanted to leave. Did he ever say anything like that? I thought i heard to the contrary. I assume his agent was just shopping him around as is customary when you're coming up on a renewal no?
     
  20. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Google it. He was all but gone to Chelsea on two occasions and had contact with United on another two occasions.
     
  21. darcgun

    darcgun Member+

    Jan 11, 2008
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I know it's almost a week done, but these are my thoughts nonetheless:

    - Everton played well, but looked good because we had no balls. had we had the balls, we'd have got a draw no problem.

    - I think anybody who says Arsene has no tactical ideas or doesn't believe in a "one best way" to play is delusional or blinding themselves from seeing what they don't want to see. We need to change our shape and take risks, life is about taking risks, no matter sport.

    - I'm confident we can get top four, as I can't see Everton winning all of their remaining games.

    - Even though had we not ********ed up some recent results (,i.e. Stoke, Swansea, City and Everton) be still in contention for the league, at least we've shown we can challenge and can be seen as a major force again. it's something to build on, and something to get a Falcao in the summer and really challenge next season.

    - I'm also confident we can win the FA Cup, as this will be the boost the club needs. Win this, and we can begin a new era of success.
     
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  22. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok I just read his Wikipedia page and you're right he was close to leaving, but didn't in each case for one reason or another. I still feel like he loves his club and isn't a mercenary. He stuck by Liverpool through both some highs and some pretty barren years as well.

    I still think he's a decent example against the earlier poster's statement that all players just see it as a job, a paycheck, and have no love for their club. I'm sure there are even better examples of current players who love their club.

    Shoot, even TH14 who left on a flyer for Barca when things were looking a bit bleak with us, seems to have some regrets and has publicly declared his love for Arsenal & Wenger. Seems genuine as far as I can tell. In his case, it'll be interesting to see if his position changes any when Wenger moves on. I digress.
     
  23. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Henry has been pissing me off lately. He just makes these cryptic comments about how Arsenal fans should be careful what we wish for, like he knows something that changes the entire situation. Well say something specific then. Plus, even if he regrets it, he left for more money and to win the CL. We want that not to happen and it seems that Arsene relishes letting the best player leave (happened 4 times in 9 years).
     
  24. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Just got around to reading this. Very interesting read indeed. I know when I did my knee i was very tired and just stepped awkwardly. No expert, but I agree with Martinez on the muscle injury thing for the most part. The simple truth is that we are and have been for some time too thin to either prevent injuries by resting players or provide cover for them when hey are injured. I think I (and many others) have said this at the end of every transfer window for the last 5+ years!
     
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  25. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    All that is indicative of is that his PR agent did a good job.
     

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