Pre-match: (EURO 2012 - Semi Final) Germany vs. Italy 06.28.2012 [R]

Good for you this time, I am sure if Italy had lost, one of the German fans who bet their money on Germany would be down on the other side of forums splashing about on team's arrogance.

There is no way this was a total no-brainer. But you got your money and good for you, have fun.

 

Kroos wasn't the problem. In theory it was a good idea to use him alongside the other guys in midfield but don't drop Müller and don't marginalize your most creative player. That was a mistake no matter how you slice it because it completely ruined our game. Schweinsteiger's poor form didnt help of course and Italy made it difficult because they're such a good organized side but Low handicapped the team from the beginning with those changes.

 

And I think people make a big mistake with this kind of thought.
Gomez can be deadly with the right service but that's something we lacked all tournament. Our whole attacking line didn't produce a single assist.
Özil got only an assist through a corner, Müller and Podolski are without one, same for Schürrle and Reus.
So why are people picking on Gomez when in reality other players didnt' do their job? Just because they are the "favourites" around here?
Why were Schweinsteiger, Khedira and Boateng the players who delivered the passes/crosses leading to our goals?
Look at Italy and how many chances they create for their strikers.
Balotelli didn't have to create anything on his own. He got a perfect cross from Cassano and a great long ball from Montolivo and just had to finish those chances.
Gomez already showed that he can do this and it's no coincidence that Klose was just as ineffective against Italy as Gomez. Both had only 13 touches in that game and THAT tells you the real story.
We lacked a plan going forward throughout the whole tournament now that teams don't give us as much room as England or Argentina did in 2010.
So instead of looking for the easy scapegoat (Gomez) we should question why players like Özil, Müller and so on didn't produce anything in this tournament. That's not what you expect from players who are praised so often on this board and get called "world class" players.
The same is true for Hummels and Lahm who make both crucial mistakes in such a game. Maybe we should question the mentality we have created within the NT. Maybe it's all too friendly and nice.

 

We just need a clear gameplan, not putting our players into the blender and wondering what colour the milk shake would be!

 

I think Sammer said it best "Success is impossible with just streamlined players. Leaders are necessary. A team is nothing without a structure and a hierarchy."

 

Your argument assumes that Loew is tactically aware.

He's not.

Playing Kroos in midfield made sense for the 4-3-3 we assumed but the problem was the front line was the worse decision.

Loew's reasoning for Gomez's inclusion was that he was motivated after the Greece game. Absolute rubbish reasoning and totally inconsiderate of the tactical sacrifice this would make. Aside from providing a physical presence, there was no need for his inclusion. If our midfield was going to be congested then the service to Gomez would be cut off even more. This was the biggest problem aside from our usual mental weakness.

And this is something Loew will simply not change. We can't go forward and presume that Gomez and Klose are easily changeable. They are not. The team isn't structured to support both and play to its potential. With Klose becoming a lesser option this is the major tactical crux going forward and I doubt Loew is capable of making the important decisions here.

I agree with your latter point. We need a clear gameplan. Before we need our leaders in place we need a viable cohesive tactical platform and ideology.

Our initial conservative matches got us 6 points in the group and while even I was slightly under the impression that we may have evolved it was a sign of false hope. We didn't click into full gear. Not because we didn't need to but because the circumstances weren't in place for that to happen. And we saw much of the same the rest of the tournament.

While we outplayed Greece and it was our most familiar showing of this side it still didn't feel like we clicked into full gear.

 

Changing the team against Greece was our biggest undoing. Even despite that greece was the weakest team in knockout missing their top players we still struggled. how could outplaying Greece be something to celebrate when every country outplayed Greece?

Like Leinad said until we learn to address the real issues with our players we would always falter, Why was it that Muller, ozil (our superstars could barely deliver any meaningful assist in 5 games)
Schurle, Poldi, Reus no assist.

our Defence stalwarts Lahm and Hummels making schoolboy errors

But we all chose to ignore all that and focus on the usual scapegoats Poldi(JUSTIFIABLY), Gomez and Boateng.

What is the issue with Ozil and his weak shots, How many chances did he miss this tournament due to his feeble shooting?

This tournament the only German players who deserve full credit were Khedira, Reus and Neuer

 

I am not really that sad or angry - didn't really expect a group of kids to win the tournament. To be frank however, I knew it was not ok when I saw the starting lineup. I just don't believe Gomez is good enough for the kind of football we play, and neither is Podolski for that matter.

 

I'm more bummed about this being the Last competitive German match I will see while living in Germany. Until I get settled I'll be looking for streams.

 

Actually the truth is that the kind of football we play doesnt win tournaments. We lack the grit to win competitions thats why we are the new holland, pretty to watch but doesnt win.

Which german team which won tourney was as soft as this? I remember Euro 96 and how gritty our team was same with 1990.

Our obsession with playing beautiful is our downfall, Looking for the samba like, tikitaka, etc

The German I grew up knowing are those that blast the ball and the keeper is scared to touch it not these ones who pass 12times in the box before shooting feebly.

Zicos Brazil of 1982 and 1986 didnt win It was the relatively ugly ones of 1994 and 2002 that did

 

2002 relatively ugly? Didn´t think so for my part. We´ll have to find the right Mix. Personally, I don´t want to go back to our old "Rumpelfußball" which was scary to watch.

 

If Germany could have another go at the tournament in 2 months: Schweini would be fully fit/on form or maybe even Guendogan/Bender would be playing, Goetze and Klose would be fully fit/on form, Hummels and Bads would get another chance at making their relationship work (plenty of jokes work here), Reus would be in Podolski out, Goetze might have taken Muellers place but doubt it, Jogi would have realized Boateng is sh*t and found a solution - either giving Bender more practise at RB or calling up Tony Jantschke or something else. Shame.

Edit: No Comment on Mario Gomez. No actually wait...f*ck him.

 

This Boateng bashing is beyond me...

 

I would gladly take the "Rumpelfußball" and win trophies. "Cross the ball Bierhoff heads in", Sammer hustles his way thrpough who scores, Andy Moller blast the shot from long range and scores. Those are what I want not the Ozil, Muller, klose triangle which exchanges a million passes but cant score.

I think the fans and Loews obsession with playing pretty is what we are suffering for now. Even Spain thats winning has been dubbed as boring by many ppl while the exciting Dutch, and lately Germans are left empty time and again

 

I don't disagree with you at all. Gomez isn't the entire problem, and you can't really put the lack of finish completely on his shoulders. The problems with Gomez are due to his lack of movement and his rather one dimensional skill-set. If you give Mario the "right" role, and set-up the front four in a fashion that allows him to poach goals..... then he will be wildly successful (to a degree what bayern have done). But you have to build the team around his requirements, which limits other parts of the German game.

With the existing German set-up, he just isn't the right player. Mario isn't fluid enough to play with Ozil or Reus...... he lacks the touch and movement.

I'm not a huge fan of Spain's false 9 setup with Fabergas upfront, but if there is a team that "could" potentially pull it off it would be this squad. By replacing Gomez with someone like Reus, and having a front four of Mueller, Ozil, Schurrle, and Reus could potentially make that work. I still don't "like" it.... but it could work.

 

I honestly think we're looking too deep into it...
Winners need a lot of luck and we just didn't have it...

50% of that loss was loew tactics and lineup..
50% of that loss was the Italians had the right balls at the right time, nothing magical about it..

We had a billion chances and it wasn't meant to be..

If loew had the lineup from the previous game that score line would've been a lot closer..

Maybe 2-2 by 90mins and then who knows by ET...

But not the shambles that was the first half..

Next time he needs to stick with the best lineup possible and just keep at it throughout the whole tournament..

Only sub or start players needing play time or injuries or rest or cards as needed...

But not this "I am outsmarting everyone" crap loew pulled out of his ass.

 

Yes he has won something but that's more because his team his that much better than the opposition. My point is when the going gets tough, the German and Bayern players have no fight and will to win.

When do Bayern or Germany play bad and win vs decent opposition? The best teams can do that.

 

Since you are bringing up history from 40 years ago. I would have to say that actually losing to Italy is a good omen for the future, we bounced back and won world cups and euros, while you disappeared you know like losing to Slovakia and drawing with New Zealand

 

The problem isn't about the line up changes per se. If you have a group of 18 or 20 players at roughly the same level, each with individual, multi-faceted skillsets, it is wise to make use of that luxury instead of just wasting it and fielding the same 11 and the same 3 subs every single time, regardless of the opponent, situation and circumstances.

The critical factor is how this is done. No matter who gets replaced and who gets the opportunity to play, it has to always suit the team's system (or one of the systems if the team has perfected more than just one). The replacements have to be reasonable and play to the team's own strengths. They have to add facets to what the team has successfully played in other games and refine them in certain areas, depending on the respective game/opposition.

Against Italy, Jogi chose to abandon the system, both in terms of tactical formation as well as philosophy/approach. Instead of adding to his team's strengths, he chose to try and cut off Italy's strengths first and foremost. Instead of tweaking his team to act in the best possible way against this particular opponent, he chose to react by crippling his own team and some its best abilities. Instead of fielding the best Germany for this game, he chose to desperately try and field the best Anti-Italy, which happened to be a second rate Germany.

During the tournament, Jogi had used two successful approaches which suited his squad and its interchangable players - a more conservative one that was fine to overcome the difficult opposition in the group stages and a more daring one that was suited to unlock a defensive team like Greece. Against Italy, he unfortunately scrapped these successful systems and employed a 3rd one. Unlike the other two, this one was more about the strengths of the opposition than about Germany's strengths. Plus, it was majorly flawed and awefully executed for the most part.

Outsmarting the opposition is welcome or even necessary. But in this semi-final, Jogi unfortunately outsmarted himself by paying too much respect to Italy as well as to his own tactical abilities.

 

To say that before this match that the team wasn't playing well and up to their potential is wrong. We were playing the best football out of any team in Europe and were the only team to win all matches in the group of death. The title was ours for the taking. Italy struggled against Croatia and barely squeeked by England. Loew was correct to start Kroos but not at RM. He should've replaced Schwein at the DM pos and not sacrificed Mueller or Reus or even Shuerrle. Schweini was dreadful. And does the team practice CKs? Kroos is horrible at taking them. Gomez was far too isolated. Would have liked to see him paired with Klose but it was not to be.

 

He didn't start Kroos at RM. Kroos was supposed to play centrally but the gameplan wasn't executed well. He drifted out right at the beginning then back into the middle. Ozil eventually went wide then back into the middle. Space was left on the right, it was all scrambled and misinterpreted and poorly executed. They either confused themselves or were confused by Low and on top of that flustered by Italy. It was just a big tactical mess. The most immature Germany performance I've seen in a long time.

 

It almost felt like the Ukraine friendly in November, with the major difference obviously being that the Ukraine game was an experimental/test game whereas this one was supposed to be the most important match since the World Cup.

Against the Ukraine, Jogi surprised his players by informing them of the formation and the unusual tactics half an hour before the game to test their ability to adapt to a spontaneous situation of emergency. Against Italy, it almost seemed like he did the same, with the entire team acting completely surprised and confused.

It was said that - to avoid the "mole" from leaking information - Jogi held back his formation as long as possible. It was then only published less than an hour before the kick off. When watching the game, I almost got the impression as if Jogi had kept the formation a secret from his players until shortly before the game as well. Most of them just didn't know exactly what to do on the pitch.

 

That's not true...Gomez got a perfect assist from Ozil and failed to control the ball

 

If this was the case then it is even more ridiculous from Loew. To find "the mole" he would sacrifice all the hard work in a SEMI FINAL OF A MAJOR TOURNAMENT, and switch it up for no reason.?!

Man Loew does some great things but man does he need a whack from someone in the DFB.

 

Correct me if this is wrong, but....is it true no German club or Men's National side has won anything in Europe or Internationally since Bayern's CL win in 01????? Is this right???? No, I don't count Bayern's momentous Audi Cup win of a few years ago