The Old Man and the Sea: Eugene Starikov at Chornomorets

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dave Marino-Nachison, Oct 12, 2008.

  1. avechkin8

    avechkin8 Member

    May 9, 2009
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Consider that you can make 7 substitutes in youth championship and there is age and foreign limit and it doesn't look good. He was loaned too late. Not even reserve team coach going to play him without preseason.

    The whole football system in Russia is ********ed up. Young players often so spoiled they rather sit on they ass in reserves forever than go to "scary" 2nd, 3rd division, where you actually need to compete with men for your time.
    But 2nd division teams too rather collect garbage from all over the world and sign vets because coaches here lucky if he can stay 1 season with a team.

    A guy like Starikov should sign/go on loan with some mid table second division team.
     
  2. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Quick update: Eugene played about 30 minutes for the reserve team vs Spartak Nal'chik on May 14th but still no luck on the first team.

    Looks like the RPL has a huge break until July now.
     
  3. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tom played a midseason friendly vs a semipro club from Kessel, Germany. Eugene played the first half and apparently beat two defenders to win a corner that led to their first goal, then scored the 5th goal off a rebound in the 45th minute. The final score was 9-0.
     
  4. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More not great news, further supporting avechkin8's view.

    Eugene played 62 minutes in a reserve/youth team match on Friday, and thus didn't even make the bench for the Tom'-Amkar game on Saturday (Tom' lost 2-0).

    Sadly, looks like he is not close to getting a spot in the first team at all.
     
  5. pirozhok

    pirozhok Member+

    United States
    Jul 20, 2007
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He started in reserve team game against Makhachkala on 07/17 and scored winning goal (31st minute), played all 90 minutes.
    Started against Alania reserves on 07/23, has been subbed after first half. Tom' lost 0:2.
     
  6. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Made the bench today but DNP.
     
  7. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was about to post this. He only played 30 mins for the reserve team yesterday so I was hoping he would make the bench today. Which he did, but didn't play. Still an improvement, I hope.
     
  8. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One possible reason Eugene made the bench this weekend is because Aleksandr Prudnikov, a 21 year old striker who was on loan at Tom' from Spartak, has been returned to his parent club. Prudnikov played 6 games as a substitute, but didn't score any goals.

    http://ru.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=1510150.html (Sorry it's in Russian, SFS, I know you'll like this)
     
  9. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    This guys ought to make Starikov look old.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that your new mancrush Zhano?

    I actually was in Moscow a few weeks ago and saw Spartak-Sibir. Zhano scored two goals. I had no idea he was 17.
     
  11. Testudo

    Testudo Member+

    Jan 29, 1999
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    6 min (+ added time)
     
  13. pirozhok

    pirozhok Member+

    United States
    Jul 20, 2007
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Excellent news. The Russian Premier League is no small league, ranked right behind France and Portugal and ahead of Greece.
     
  15. Testudo

    Testudo Member+

    Jan 29, 1999
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oops, good catch. Don't know how I missed that.
     
  16. Testudo

    Testudo Member+

    Jan 29, 1999
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He wasn't involved in the reserve game yesterday, so I was expecting him to make the bench and play. Well, at least one of those happened.

    Tomsk drew 1-1.
     
  18. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  19. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Potentially big news for Eugene: Tom's leading scorer, Sergey Kornilenko, who was on loan from Zenit, has been recalled and loaned out to Rubin Kazan for their Champions League campaign. A huge opening has opened up in the striker rotation.
     
  20. CubanLover

    CubanLover Member

    Feb 2, 2010
    Sin City, Nevada
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Horrible news for Tom's... The guy had basically scored half the team goals this season and was 3rd in the league.

    GREAT news for Starikov, there are just 3 forwards listed on the team. He should get some playing time now (hopefully).
     
  21. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Came in in the 89th minute today as Tom' held on to a 1-0win courtesy of an Artem Dzuba penalty.
     
  22. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Dzyuba is a Russian U-23/U-21 striker.

    People here underrate a little the significance of making the bench in the RPL.
     
  23. Zenit

    Zenit Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 3, 2000
    Above the Tear Line
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be fair, there really is a huge difference between making the bench for the top 7-8 teams (all the unwashed Muscovite teams, plus Rubin and Zenit) versus making the bench for the lower half.

    Tomsk is one of those well-run, plucky teams in the RPL (Zenit has had horrible luck in Tomsk the last couple of years) that will always kind of be between the bottom 2-3 relegation candidates and the top half. They are punching above their weight this year partly due to being a well coached team and partly due to some absolutely abysmal seasons (so far) by a couple of heavyweights (3 Moscow teams, Loko, Dinamo and Spartak) and a former fringe team that is going broke and flying apart (no pun intended) at the seams (Krilya Sovetov Samara.) Tom' will always be willing to run out cheaper, younger talent they can take out on loan from some of the bigger clubs, because that's one of the reasons they have managed to stay competitive and stay up, instead of throwing money at every 3rd rate Brasilian or Portuguese hack or has-been (ahem, err, Dinamo!) that comes down the turnpike. They are not broke, due to an effective battle plan, but they just cannot compete on a regular basis with the Moscow monied teams, Zenit (which with Gazprom owning the team now throws around more money than the unwashed Muscovites, not often with good results (see: freaking Auxerre)) and the flavors of the month like Rubin and Terek Grozny (I still think over 50% of Terek's games are fixed per orders from the Kremlin.)

    RE: Eugene - I watched quite a few of his games with the Zenit youth team (U-21) which won the RPL youth title last season. He looked competent at times, but was competing for time with a couple of big time prospects (Kannunikov, who has now moved up to the bench and a late game offensive/fresh legs substitute for the varsity, and Ignatovich, who led the youth league in goals and has one more year with the U-21s, he'll definitely be with the big boys next season.) He wasn't helped by an injury that kept him out for a good part of the season, and I see he's picked up a niggling injury again with Tomsk.

    He's on loan to Tom' right now, but I honestly don't see Zenit recalling him at the end of the year - there's no room for him on the reserve squad, and he's clearly behind Kannunikov and Ignatovich as academy or youth prospects at forward, who will have their own problems finding time behind Kerzhakov, Bukharov, and Lazovich (Lazovich and Bukhariv are new signings this season, both have looked good, Bukharov was a budding stud at Rubin before they got a big money offerthey couldn't refuse.) Most likely he'll either stay at Tomsk with something worked out, but I don't get the feeling that team management really considers him anything more than a squad rotational player, at best - clearly, his usage so far indicates the Tomsk management's feelings about his potential.

    He does now have his Russian passport, as I understand, and I don't believe he ever renounced his Ukrainian (by birth) passport - but to be honest, he's not even remotely close to a call up for any team by either country (and neither team, especially Russia, is particularly deep at forward.)

    He probably will have the rest of the season to showcase his talents at Tomsk now that Kornilenko is at Rubin, but if he continues to come off the bench, my guess is he'd be better off trying to drop down in the first division (neither of the likely demotees this season, Krilya or Sibir, look like good bets next year) or catch on with one of the likely promotees (Kuban Krasnodar, relegated last season but a decent club, and/or one of the two Nizhny Novgorod teams battling for promotion.)

    Honestly? I don't think he's a week in, week out starter in the RPL. I think right now, just for playing time, he'd be better off looking at the 1st division - or trying to catch on with an MLS club somewhere. I seem to recall he may have dissed MLS in the past (not 100% sure, so don't hang me if I'm wrong, just seem to recall a quote from him in the past) and that may not have been a very good idea on his part. He's not an MLS starter either, but I think he'd get more playing time here, as long as he stays away from injury.

    As far as an NT callup, from any of the three counties, ever, for Eugene - right now I'd rate it zero percent chance for both Russia and Ukraine, and less than a 5% chance for the US (unless every US forward other than Robbie Findlay fractures their ankles - I'd start myself in front of Findlay, blech). I just don't think he's ever going to be an international level player.

    Then again, I've always thought the same of Findlay, and look who got to start 3 WC games. So, WTF do I know? ;)
     
  24. Zenit

    Zenit Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 3, 2000
    Above the Tear Line
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As far as the type of player he is - It is hard for me to categorize him as a player - the trend now in Russia is to develop or cultivate bigger, target forward types like Pavluchenko with Spurs or Pogrebnyak with Stuttgart, rather than some of the smaller goal poaching types (Kerzhakov) or smallish CAM/withdrawn forward types (Arshavin, Izmailov, Sychev). Eugene is none of the above, stylistically, and is on the smallish side, which doesn't help much in this league. He's not blessed with great footspeed, from what I saw, but that may be related to his injury problems - I remember someone who saw him play at Stetson saying he was very quick back then. Before he got hurt last year, he actually pumped in a few goals in a stretch where he showed good goal poaching instinct and decent finishing qualities, but looked rusty and a bit lost after what was about a 6-7 week absence IIRC. He's just one of those players that doesn't do anything exceptionally well or exceptionally poorly. Believe me, I'm not trying to bag on the kid - when he got there, his Russian was self-admittedly pretty rusty from non-use, and I'm sure he got plenty of stick from the other players on the Zenit U-21 team trying to break in as a relative outsider not coming through their Smena Academy (the RPL youth league is a lot of fun to watch, unlike most RPL teams Zenit last year offered archived webcasts of the U-21 games on their website and it is a rough and tumble competition, lemme tell ya.) The kid has a lot of guts venturing out east as he did, of that there's no question. I just don't see a lot more upside to him than he's already shown, and what he as shown so far is skills of a competent RPL role player/bench sub that most likely is playing one division above his skill level.

    Correction: Ignatovich was actually loaned to FK Khimki, another Muscovite suburban team that was relegated last season, back in June, and he's played in a few games this season in the 1st division, mostly as a sub. This kid scored 18 times last year for the youth team, I think Eugene managed 5 or 6. A rough comparison, to be sure, but in my mind kind of reinforces my opinion that he's probably playing in one division too high in Russia.
     
  25. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    I look at him as an American and not a Russian player, whom it may take a while to adapt to the RPL level ball.

    If you look at the comparative team strenghts, only Altidore at VR and Johnson at Fulham are in better leagues and neither of those plays in meaningful competitions with their clubs.

    So, this guy is a prospect by default.
     

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