EU type deal for CONCACAF players in MLS

I think your point about the difficulty of trading Canadian players among US teams is a good one. We could imagine FIFA requiring MLS as the top league in 2 countries to not discriminate among players from those 2 countries in league rules. Canadian law complies with such an edict. US law arguably does not, though I'd think FIFA compliance amounts to a bona fide occupational requirement. If FIFA can get away with such a rule, could CONCACAF?

My example of the Teamsters and Mexican trucks/truck drivers is a real one. NAFTA requires the US to admit Mexican logistics firms to the country. Most of their employees, not surprisingly are Mexican. That doesn't seem a lot different from CD Guad and Chivas employing Mexicans. Chivas doesn't seem to have any trouble getting the proper work visas for players from the parent club.

 

Why doesn't Canada just make US players regarded as foreign for your teams?

 

Its been over for Fire fans for weeks now.

 

here's one interpretation
http://the11.ca/2013/03/16/taking-it-to-the-experts-exploring-the-canadian-domestic-question-in-mls/

treating US players as foreigners would seriously handicap Canadian MLS players in any case. (see 2007 TFC team)

 

There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.

 

The moment MLS starts internal discussions about making Canadian players exempt from international spots is the moment that whatever mechanism is found becomes illegal. There's just no way to find a work around because any half decent lawyer would ask for internal documents and emails which would show intent and then your liable.

 

If I understand the guy he's saying what I was saying: Americans should be domestic in America, Canadians should be domestic in Canada.

2nd part: Tough luck. If you have 8 good foreigners you should still be able to field a competitive lineup. Would increase number of Canadian DP's too methinks. Which would be good for sport in Canada.

 

it would seriously handicap the 3 canadian teams, like you pointed out it hampered tfc when they started and the quota for canadian players was higher. which is why the 3 mls teams (and mls) basically told the cfa what the canadian quota was going to be (3) ... the cfa had pretty much no sway or say in the matter because let's face it the three canadian mls teams have far more power than does the cfa.

 

Well go ahead and try. I think we're all agreed here that the USMNT could not let Rossi play for us due to FIFA rules. Perhaps you don't agree with that. But the point is that US labor (non-discrimination) and immigration laws don't seem to inhibit MLS operations that much. Everyone agrees that MLS has to comply with the law where it operates. The question is whether or not some of the broader claims are correct or not.

 

most Canadians do not give a damn about Canadian DPs (because most suck and aren't worthy of DP money), but that's not the point.

essentially what is happening is there are 2 sets of roster rules in same league; one for US, and one for Canada. forget labour/civil rights laws and think about this for a sect.

for a league that wants legitimacy, it's ridiculous that there are one set of rules for one group of teams, and another set for the rest. and this is suppose to be balanced competition?

 

In the comments to your linked article it says that Canadian players on US teams count as US domestic players in the USL Pro league. Is that confirmed? If so, it would seem to demolish the labor law discrimination argument.

 

come on dude, reading comprehension:

that is the nasl rule and it is basically saying they are the same as mls (and for much the same reason i'd imagine title 7 of the civil rights act).

in the us and pr a domestic player is one who is either a us citizen, green card holder or other special status. in canada a domestic player is one who is a canadian citizen, a permanent resident (of Canada) or who qualifies as a domestic player in the US.

and there is a simple reason, which that article completely ignored, as to why one thing is true in the US and another is in Canada ... and that is there is no Civil Rights law of 1964 and thus no title 7 expressely forbidding employment discrimination based on one of the protected classes listed therein. now i am sure Cananda has anti-discrimination laws, not trying to say it is a terrible place, but perhaps they simply don't have anything as explicit as our title 7 about national origin.

 

Yes, that's how the USL-Pro rule is written. But all that means is that nobody has bothered to sue the USL-Pro yet.

 

Seriously?

You're mixing unrelated things together with apples to oranges equivalencies. You've also managed assert that a rule set by Fifa or Concacaf can supercede US employment law. I do not see how being qualified to play for a foreign national team in any way compares to the legal requirement in a sovereign nation that only citizens of the country can practice law.

The NAFTA example also makes no sense because it has nothing to do with the hiring practices of US firms. That treaty allows truck driver employed by Mexican firms and driving trucks registered in Mexico the ability to drive on US roads to deliver goods, rather than dropping them off at the border for a US truck to pick up and deliver. The law doesn't require US companies to hire Mexican nationals to drive US trucks. How a Mexican company hires it's truck drivers has no relevance here. If US trucking firms, when hiring foreign nationals to drive in the US, were only hiring Mexicans at the expense of any other nationality to drive in the US, then you'd have a violation of US law.

I also have no idea what you were trying to get at by calling out Chivas' Mexican hiring practices. If it's because C-USA brings in players from Guadalajara, that organization's policies have been under scrutiny and are already the subject of a lawsuit. MLS instituted its current roster rules after being put on notice that its quotas in 1996 didn't treat green card holders as required under the law. If you do not think an official MLS policy that granted special status based on the country that issued a foreign passport, then look at the 1996 example and consider how an agent will react the first time he has a qualified player rejected by MLS because he didn't qualify for a Caribbean or Canadian player slot. There was also a period of time where the CFL expanded to US markets. The US based CFL teams could not be held to the same Canadian player quotas as the US teams because those rules violated US law.

Because MLS has dedicated slots for citizens and green card holders, it has to treat all foreign nationals equally. The only way for MLS to treat Canadians the same as Americans in the US would be to do away with all of the quotas and I do not see that happening any time soon.

 

Toronto's season ended somewhere around April 1st.

 

If you go to Kansas City McDonald's operates under one set of labor, safety, and tax rules in Kansas and a different set in Missouri.

For an organization that holds itself up as one of the great multinational corporations, it's ridiculous.

 

It was late at night so I'll just note the irony of your complaint about reading comprehension when you confused USL Pro with MLS and NASL. My point is that both operate under the same laws but have different rules so it's likely that the difference in rules isn't driven by legal requirements but by preference of the teams in the league. Or perhaps Chapka is right that USL Pro's rules are illegal but nobody cares.

 

Well the anti-discrimination laws have exceptions for bona fide occupational requirements. The question is what constitutes such a requirement (and by extension who would have grounds for complaint if they fall outside the requirement).

My view is that FIFA compliance amounts to such a requirement for both the USSF and MLS. In the Rossi hypothetical, my view is that the USMNT could refuse Rossi's attempts to play for the US in international play. The only thing barring him is the FIFA rule that since he's been capped for Italy in competitive matches, he can't switch. Is it your view that if he tried to join the USMNT, US law would prohibit the USSF from not letting him try? I think the USSF could deny Rossi the attempt by simply pointing out that it would amount to an empty roster spot since he wouldn't be allowed to take the field in Brazil. Even if he had attempted it a year ago and said he'd be willing to only play in home qualifiers while the matter was sorted out.

Suppose FIFA as part of its fair play campaign or even CONCACAF for petty revenge reasons said that MLS as the top league in both the US and Canada had to treat players from both countries equally on both sides of the border. I think MLS could easily defend such a rule vs challenges from Argentine or Costa Rican players by pointing out that all MLS teams aspire to CCL or even CWC play. My view is that MLS is more vulnerable to lawsuit by treating Canadians differently within MLS depending on which side of the border their team is on. Maybe the MLS lawyers are better than the USL Pro lawyers but if it's a matter of league policy rather than a legal requirement, jeopardy awaits.

 

I don't even consider the Rossi example because its ridiculous and not even close to analogous to getting a contract with MLS. Just given the CFL example I can't see a US court looking at ruling from Fifa or Concacaf as being enough to violate US labor law. It is a preposterous idea and it ignores the fact that Canadian and US based MLS teams have completely separate paths to the CCL and CWC anyway.

How the hell can MLS be more vulnerable to a lawsuit by treating Canadians like any other foreign national. Who could possibly sue and under what grounds? Again, look at the CFL example.

 

You're begging the question by assuming that complying with FIFA requirements violate US labor laws. USMNT players are paid appearance fees for matches and I imagine the players are insured during their time with the team. While nobody is holding their breath for Rossi to attempt a switch, if he did wouldn't you say that as a US citizen he has the right to try out for the team? Given that the team has previously invited him, they can hardly argue he isn't good enough. My view is that they could safely decline to let him try, citing the relevant FIFA rules on switches.
Yes, qualifying for CCL and CWC is done by country but that's due to CONCACAF and FIFA rules, not domestic legislation.

This is somewhat contrived but MLS legal vulnerability would be if the USL Pro rules are legally valid, then MLS differing rules might not be. The ideal plaintiff would be a Canadian citizen, not holding a green card who is drafted by a US based MLS team. If the plaintiff were better than the worst American on the roster but not better than the 8th international spot holder, and had his MLS rights retained by a US based team, he might have standing. MLS is Canada's top soccer league after all. In practice MLS would probably try to dodge the issue by having his US team trade him to a Canadian team or at least giving him free agency within MLS. Of course they could if desired try to get a private bill through Congress ratifying treating Canadians and Americans equally.

 

Any discrimination against Rossi by the USMNT would be perfectly legal. What anti-discrimination law do you think FIFA's rules would break in his case?

 

You're talking to a wall.

 

I think the USSF would be free to tell Rossi no thanks based on the FIFA rules. Billf has been arguing that FIFA rules are trumped by US non-discrimination laws. International sporting bodies frequently run into situations where member countries don't want to follow one rule or another. It's not unusual for doping cases to end up in court somewhere but the typical outcome is WADA or CAS gets its way.

In the Rossi hypothetical if FIFA rules have no force within the US, you'd have a situation where a player who wants to accept a previous invitation is turned away for some fictitious reason.

If FIFA or CONCACAF told MLS to treat Canadians within the league equally with Americans regardless of where their team is based, I think that would constitute a bona fide occupational requirement based on the fact that MLS teams want to play in international competitions. It wouldn't apply to Costa Ricans because MLS isn't the D-1 league for Costa Rica. Or to put it another way, organizations that operate internationally will be expected to abide by international rules.