Estaduais 2014: State Championships thread [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil: Clubs and Competitions' started by Mengão86, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Everton Costa fouled Felipe on Vasco's goal in the first game and Luan should have been sent off early in yesterday's game for his foul on Everton. But Vasco never gets favorable calls against us.
     
  2. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    Few people are totally against the existence of the State Championship. But most believe that the league should be much shorter, as I think.

    The 2014 tournament in Rio de Janeiro was terrible. Nobody wanted to go to the stadiums. Only 49.000 in a final between Flamengo and Vasco. Maybe it's too much for a foreign, but that's little, it's ridiculous.

    I'm not complaining only about the loss of the title. I'm complaining about the way we lost. And for many reasons that maybe someone who is not from Rio de Janeiro may not understand.
     
  3. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    Lances de interpretação. O primeiro não foi falta, né, é lance normal com todo goleiro. Mesma coisa que pedir penalti em todo agarrão nas bolas alçadas para a área. O outro lance também é interpretação sem um caminho claro, eu achei o amarelo justo. E o Marcelo amarelou três jogadores de defesa do Vasco no primeiro tempo.

    Muito diferente de um lance fácil de anular que foi o gol do Flamengo.
     
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  4. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Igual invertendo faltas, expulsando Chicão e os carrinhos "normais" do Guinazu né? :rolleyes:

    O Luan era o ultimo homem e o Everton teria melhor condição pra concluir em gol.
     
  5. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    Invertendo faltas é você que está dizendo. Expulsão do Chicao e do André Rocha foram justas. Carrinhos do Guinazu, não teve um que foi para vermelho direto.

    Tô falando... mania de vocês de pegar um lancezinhos para tentar justificar o título tirado das mãos do Vasco. Pelo menos não falou de 2003. ;)
     
  6. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    As expulsões não foram justas. Empurra-empurra acontece em toda bola parada. Expulsou um dos melhores em campo (Chicão) e um dos piores (Rocha). Isso fez com que o Jayme colocasse o Erazo, que cometeu o pênalti. A expulsão claramente favoreceu o Vasco.

    Eu nunca falei que o gol não foi impedimento. Eu estou simplesmente mostrando que teve erros que favoreceram o Vasco, mas quem não vê não quer. Prefere ficar com esse mimimi.

    Lancezinhos? Foi você quem comentou que o Vasco foi roubado nos últimos 5 anos com esses lancezinhos.
     
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  7. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    Você quer comparar lances de cartão e de interpretação com um gol absurdo validado nos acréscimos ou com penaltis claríssimos no fim do jogo. Eu só citei lance grande, decisivo.
     
  8. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I wasn't directing it towards you but would you have came to Bigsoccer if you have just lost to Icasa? Nobody goes to stadiums in rio, it doesn't matter what competition, the exception is the libertadores. Eventually brazilians need to stop making excuses. For such a terrible competition people seem to be talking about the final a lot. I know how bad traffic and violence has been in rio the last 4 months but i'm sick of hearing the excuses why fans can't go to games or why they are apathetic. These state championship finals actually get the fans interested when the rest of the year they really aren't.
     
  9. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Not to mention all of guinazu's dirty and reckless tackles.. especially in earlier games this year
     
  10. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    São lances principais. Mudaram o jogo.

    Bola na mão também é interpretação.
     
  11. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Thanks a lot. Yeah, Rio Preto
     
  12. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    It is a big problem and nobody knows which is the main reason. But make sure that the price of the tickets is one of those reasons. The cheapest ticket cost $45 yesterday. It seems not so big, but this is very expensive. I'm sure if the final was in 2010, there was 85,000 at the Maracana yesterday.

    Assim como penalti. Mas é muito diferente uma bola na mão com o braço esticado e um penalti aonde o jogador foi diretamente no corpo do outro. Por exemplo, você não discute o penalti do Erazo sobre o Pedro Ken, né? É interpretação assim como o tal lance do Everton, mas são acontecimentos difernetes de importâncias diferentes. Um é discutível, se era pra vermelho e se era tão importante. O outro foi inquestionável e superimportante, a principal chance de gol.
     
  13. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You have social problems that need to be addressed. Even people with really good jobs in Rio like engineers have a hard time supporting a family, so I know the realities. They price the tickets high because if they were lower there would be violence and they end up having to pay for extra police or security. The television ratings/numbers are very important and they have been getting better every year so that is a positive at least. I don't think Brazilians love the brasileirao as much as Italians and Argentinians like their leagues. When I meet brazilians visiting New York City they are almost offended when I ask about their favorite club or if i ask about the football in Brazil.
     
  14. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    I tend to agree with you, but...

    They price the tickets high because if they were lower there would be violence and they end up having to pay for extra police or security

    That is completely wrong.
     
  15. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Todos esses 'penaltis' geraram discussao se era ou nao era. O penalti do Erazo sim foi indiscutivel. E pra mim, nao tem nem discussao se o Luan merecia o vermelho. Lance claro. Essa nao foi a primeira vez que o arbitro deixou de expulsar um jogador do Vasco esse ano. No jogo da primeira fase, o Guinazu merecia ser expulso.
     
  16. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    How is it wrong? If you have a bigger crowd you need more security . A crowd where tickets are priced at 5 or 10 R$ will look different than a crowd with 50 R$ tickets, very basic sociology. The clubs are trying to make a profit and this cuts into it. They are trying to prevent poorer people from going to the Stadium by pricing the tickets like that. 45,00o fans at 50 R$ = 2250000 80,000 at 10 R$ = 800000. If Flamengo is playing Criciuma you can get away with having low ticket prices but if it's a classico at a low price there is a big risk of violence. I believe they have to pay for more police/security also. I don't like the ticket prices but economically it makes sense for the clubs.
     
  17. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    For me, you are totally wrong for three reasons:
    1. Join poverty (I do not know if is the right word) and violence. But I agree that it is the logic of clubs too.
    2. Violent people were in the stadium yesterday. Always will be, even with expensive tickets. They receive these tickets for free. Who was not at the Maracana yesterday are common people, like the fanatic boy, the father of the family and other common types.
    3. Vasco x Flamengo with 20,000 is dangerous as a game with 80,000. I would say that is MOST dangerous when there are fewer people. That is why I never liked to go to basketball games between the two teams.
     
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  18. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    How many tickets do they give away per game? 1,000 at most? I don't think it's enough to change the dynamic drastically since the supporter groups will sit in a particular section, The 80,000 crowds will have significant more security which costs $ but I understand what you are saying. You are right about the common people unfortunately.
     
  19. Lucas...

    Lucas... Member+

    Dec 18, 2012
    Yes, it is true, is not a huge difference.

    I also think the tickets are more expensive not only because of the violence. There is also a feeling that "ok, now we have a WC Final Stadium", so for this they think the ticket should be more expensive. The Rio's government also gave the stadium for a company to control and they have a high percentage of the income of games. So for a club to make money, they need to earn several million per game.

    Anyway, it's a big problem and I do not know how it will be solved. 30/45 dollars per game is still very expensive in Brazil. And then there's the fact that, as you said, the brazilian is not passionate about football at the stadium, he has no problem in watching in the bar, restaurant or home.
     
  20. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

    Jun 16, 2008
    New Orleans
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Honduras
    I hate the State Championships, this has been well documented about me.

    I'm the few(lol) who think Brazil should adopt the European Calendar.
     
  21. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #421 Emperor Adriano, Apr 14, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
    You sound like you watch a lot of European lgs so wouldn't you watch way less brasileirao if it was using the euro calendar? Plus with all the youth tournaments you follow I think it'd be tougher.
     
  22. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Nobody goes even in the Brasileirao, and now with the modern stadiums it's even easier for fights to break out, I say keep the prices high and the organizadas far from the stadium and attendance will go up once again.
    over 7000 non paying at the final, it's not just 1000
     
  23. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    About the Fla x Vasco final, just sad how every encounter between both clubs has gone this year, where the officiating became the main issue on almost every game, twice for very clear reasons (goal given and goal taken away) and on the first game of the final I thought it was ludicrous that at the start of the second half in 8 minutes Vasco got 3 yellows and a red during their defensive pressing (which dominated flamengo at the first half), that simply changed the game to the point that Vasco stopped pressing, since everything was being called fouls and everyone was getting carded.
    Vasco actually moved the ball nicely against Flamengo on both games, and has been doing it since Adilson got set on his starting team.

    And with the Flamengo thing, I also remember Botafogo having an impossible time beating Flamengo 3 years in a row with a lot of help from the referees, and that Botafogo team with Cuca was actually pretty great.
     
  24. NotreDameFlamengo

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    I had to listen to some jackass on quatro linhas talk about how vergonhoso flamengo and their fans should be for winning the championship the way they did. And why? Because a ref made the wrong call? Big games have been decided on wrong calls in our favor as well as against us many times before. It happens to all teams, all the time. Why should the team and the fans be ashamed? What should the team do, give the championship back? lol. The team has no control over the quality of the refs, sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it doesn't.

    I understand fully if a Vascaino desabafar after a game like that, but a actual futebol analyst saying the team and fans should be ashamed is ridiculous.
     
  25. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I care more about the fact that we won a championship after playing mediocre in two games and drawing both games 1-1. I didn't really celebrate because I'm concerned by that. Winning a championship by drawing 1-1 twice is a bit lame.
     

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