England vs. Orange, Friendly: Wednesday 29/02/12, 21:00 [R]

Judging from the comments in the England thread they are very happy with Pearce as a coach

Well, what to expect from this match?

Re: England vs. Orange, Friendly: Wednesday 29/02/12, 21:00

I would not expect a great spectacle!

This has the potential to be a very boring match, but at least it is a pretty youthful squad. i'd like to see us line up like this:

-------------Hart
Richards--Jones--Smalling--Cole
---Cleverley---Parker
Sturridge--Gerrard--Young/Welbeck
----------Rooney

That's probably our strongest 11 given the squad.. would like to see Adam Johnson given a chance too. However, i think pearce will not play with such an attack minded team.. i'm expecting a bizarre line up.

Re: England vs. Orange, Friendly: Wednesday 29/02/12, 21:00

I expect Netherlands to control the vast majority of this game, despite the younger line up Pearce has called up, England are still tight defensively.

My Guess 1-0 Holland, maybe 2-1.

Re: England vs. Orange, Friendly: Wednesday 29/02/12, 21:00

Wake me up when it's over!

Re: England vs. Orange, Friendly: Wednesday 29/02/12, 21:00

I'm extremely pessimistic about the state of our national team. Half of our starters are in terrible form and/or aren't even starters for their club. That said when I look at who England's called up.....

All I'm hoping for is that Van Marwijk tests some new blood. God knows we need it what with all the spoilt established players we've got who look like they've got nothing left to prove anymore.

Re: England vs. Orange, Friendly: Wednesday 29/02/12, 21:00

Dream on. The fact that he may be manager for the next WC as well leaves me quite depressed.

Re: England vs. Orange, Friendly: Wednesday 29/02/12, 21:00

If he's got balls he'll give the three teenagers a real chance.

Re: England vs. Orange, Friendly: Wednesday 29/02/12, 21:00

I hear you

Some uplifting news however. KJH hattrick today brings his tally to 33 goals in 33 games.

Re: England vs. Orange, Friendly: Wednesday 29/02/12, 21:00

& 10 Goals in a Europa League which has an absolute DUD mid-field.


Hunter to break Falcao's record.

BTW Huntelaar has 33 Goals & 10 Assists in 2939 Minutes
While C. Ronaldo (In Real Madrid) has 36 Goals & 9 Assists in 3080 Minutes.

Damn Huntelaar is so effective

Re: England vs. Orange, Friendly: Wednesday 29/02/12, 21:00

Dud Midfield or not. Schalke have scored more goals than Bayern Munchen in Bundesliga and are the nr 1 in this respect. Apparently attack gets some delivery one way or the other, because one thing is for sure and that is Huntelaar is not going to get it himself.

Is that a record in the loser league?

Yes, if there is one player I would equate Huntelaar with, it would be Ronaldo. Of all players that would be my pick as well. About the same speed, defenses reserve an extra 10 meters to compensate for their ability to cut through them at will, key passes per game, dribbling. Everything. Here are the stats I think you use, looking at the minutes you put down:

Huntelaar:




Ronaldo:



Why you start subtracting on the assists of both players but especially Ronaldo is not clear to me. You also use the Transfermarkt definition of assists, though Europa league and Bundesliga use others, bringing his number down:

• 4 assists Bundesliga
• 1 assist in EL

Well if that is your thing, then I have no problem with that. Here I will even help you with proving that point:

Link



With 31,58% he has the highest goal per chances conversion rate in Bundesliga.


I just don't understand how people who are raised with Dutch NT football can choose Huntelaar over RVP. Being effective instead of helping out to increase the flow of the game. An one sided player that outsources creation to the rest of the team without contributing in any real way to it. Your pick for Tranfermarkt definition assists tries to mask the fact he does nothing for a team. A player that will never outrun a defender, giving us 0 chance when we are pressed to score as every one legged defender can keep up with him. A player that knows how to bash the noob teams but falls silent against the big guns. 0 goals against Bayern, Gladbach and Dortmund. The second he faces some kind of Czech team, he starts to punish them, boosting his tally.

Huntelaar, Luuk de Jong, Castagnos, van Wolfswinkel (sorry HSS), Bas Dost.

Incomplete players in the sense of the right field, flow and football contribution and will always be an in between solution until we have another complete player. It's about showing the most ability in providing versatile football solutions against the highest quality teams. Teams that are capable of offering the most resistance and are on their turn very well equipped to shut down one sided players. Not about the ability to see more opportunity's against weak defenses or even be somewhat more effective with the chances you get as the creation process will maybe never take place without a striker that is involved. Like against Germany where Huntelaar was non existent and you want to pin that down on Kabouter Wesley, who has been nothing but brilliant for us.

In a game against Germany or Spain I would seriously considering Luuk de Jong over Huntelaar as he shows more contribution in general field play. Hard working lethargic looking field play (wrong kind of field play), but at least some field play. What use do you have of of a striker like Huntelaar against opposition where he doesn't get the ball or a chance? Better have someone that works his butt off putting some pressure on the opposition.

A Striker's job is to score goals,Hunter is good with the head,can pass. He is a much better passer than Bas Dost. Ofcourse he is not RVP.

If you want creativity,you have Robben,Sneijder,VDV,Strootman. Wingers,Midfielders are there to show creativity.

RVP is incomplete. Leaves his balls behind in big games. Physically not that strong,aerially incomplete(Hunter is a much better header). Those are attributes for a No.9 too.

If you want so much creativity you might as well be a Winger,no point playing No.9. How much creativity did Nistelrooy have??? He has a penalty box striker with as little creativity as Hunter yet is one of the best goal-scorers ever for Oranje.

The reason Schalke score so many goals is that they have Good Strikers. Not because of their midfield. They barely get some possession against Top Teams.

This match proves why hunter is needed. It was a 2-2 Game including both legs, a match which went into extra time & Huntelaar scores 2 times to give the victory. He does not CHOKE in Pressure situations. If you choke in pressure situations all your creativity mean SHIT.

BTW Plzen or whatever this team is called,weren't they drawn in the same group as Barce & Milan & they managed to snatch a point from Milan or something. This was a CHL team,better than teams like Norwich against which RVP scores & gets heaps of praises for it.

BTW this is the Looser's league DRB. Yes the same Loosers League where the Current No.1 & No.2 team (& Current Champions) are playing.

BTW Schalke play Twente next round.

Pieters played a sub for PSV so hopefully can he play against England too.

According to de Telegraaf. Narsingh and Ola John in the final squad, Maher out.

I don't see how anyone can dispute that Huntelaar is an excellent striker.The issue is that he's not an alround footballer though. Van Persie will probably get the striker position for the same reason that Luuk de Jong is preferred over Van Wolfswinkel. The former is more multifunctional than the latter.

Also Schalke plays a 4-4-2 system which suits Huntelaar. Holland will never change its system around to accommodate Huntelaar.

Anita also dropped. Here's the full squad.

Mark van Bommel (AC Milan), Khalid Boulahrouz (VfB Stuttgart), Jeffrey Bruma (HSV), Urby Emanuelson (AC Milan), John Heitinga (Everton), Klaas Jan Huntelaar (Schalke 04), Ola John (FC Twente), Luuk de Jong (FC Twente), Nigel de Jong (Manchester City), Tim Krul (Newcastle United), Dirk Kuyt (Liverpool), Joris Mathijsen (Málaga), Luciano Narsingh (SC Heerenveen), Robin van Persie (Arsenal), Erik Pieters (PSV), Arjen Robben (Bayern München), Stijn Schaars (Sporting Lissabon), Wesley Sneijder (Internazionale), Maarten Stekelenburg (AS Roma), Kevin Strootman (PSV), Rafael van der Vaart (Tottenham Hotspur), Ron Vlaar (Feyenoord), Michel Vorm (Swansea City), Georginio Wijnaldum (PSV).

I personally would have dropped a defensive mid for Maher. Schaars or Nigel de Jong.

Also I guess Van Marwijk commenting a while ago that whoever doesn't get playing time for his club won't get called up is pretty much forgotten!

Hahahaha! Are you sure you are from holland?

Friendlies. Haha. Two teams playing for....pride? Which team has the better lion crest?

I'll be interested to see what comes about from this match. Summer will be here before we know it, better get things ironed out before it really counts. No more lose to Sweden type garbage. We're looking at you, Van Marwijk.

Are we wearing the new orange kit for this one? I see that England has the new uni's all ready to go.

On a related note, is there any specific reason that you haven't been able to find any of the 2010 Holland shirts for sale anywhere for at least a year now? Luckily I purchased one when they were still available. Number 2 team (Edit: Number 3. F***.) in the world and you can't even buy the jersey. Plenty of Espana jerseys to go around though. That always baffled me.

(Sorry for the noob questions, I'm a recent convert and still learning)

We have, those three stretched creatures in their crest arenot lions, they are weazels (hope I spelled that correct)

I expect to see some experiments by Van Marwijk, both in faces and line-up.

The call up of Narsingh and John is a positive move (in addition to the inclusion of Luuk De Jong and Wijnaldum.) Too bad Maher was dropped. I hope to see the youngsters getting some minutes. The fact that BvM's contract extended is a change in paradigm. Now he HAS to regenerate the squad, he has to try new players if he really cares about the next W.C, knowing that a few old guards will exit after the Euro.

I'd also to see some bold moves in the tactical area. With Nigel de Jong getting limited minutes at City, he should not be in the starting line-up. Whoever replacing NdJ must be more attacking-oriented. I think this will serve well for the team overall.. quicker build up from the back and less sideways or back passes. Maybe the formation will evolve from a static 4-2-3-1 to a 4-1-4-1 or some variations of that. I just hope that the defense holds up well, which of course, is another whole different story.

NDJ has started in both Porto games and played the whole match today. Bert should be more worried about calling up players who haven't played in months like Pieters.

Interesting that against Juventus today, Urby was at the top of the Diamond in the midfield and van Bommel was at the rear. Urby had one good pass that almost led to a goal but otherwise did little. van Bommel is really slow these days and it's worrisome to see him starting in the EC.

I have to hand it to Allegri, putting the twins at the wings has been a genius move. Urby and Robinho were literally everywhere and have caused as many problems for Juve as they did against Arsenal and since when is Emanuelson this good at taking corners?

The Ambrosini for Urby sub however wasn't that smart, he was just asking for troubles with that one.

===================================================================
Milan 1-1 Juventus: Emanuelson nullifies Pirlo and robs Juve of their spare man too


The starting line-ups, with the key battle highlighted

1st v 2nd in Serie A – Milan remain a point ahead, but Juve have a game in hand.

Max Allegri still has big selection problems – Kevin-Prince Boateng joined the injury list, while Zlatan Ibrahimovic was suspended.

Antonio Conte’s first nine names on the teamsheet were as expected – but Marco Borriello and Fabio Quagliarella upfront was a big surprise.

The game finished level, but Milan were the better side here – Conte made mistakes, and Milan played well. The Juve coach seemed to accept this, saying, “First of all we must praise Milan, as they played for an hour at the highest level and put us under pressure with our own weapons. Where I see that we went wrong, it’s also because they made us go wrong.”

Accordingly, the majority of the report will be looking at how Milan outwitted Juve.

Formation match-up

Juve had the players to use either a three or a four at the back. From kick off, they seemed to line up with a back four, but it quickly became apparent that Conte had decided upon a back three, with wing-backs pushing forward to provide width.

Juve had a couple of promising moments when they moved forward by switching the ball from flank to flank. With the away side playing two upfront, Thiago Silva and Philippe Mexes had no spare man, and therefore the two Milan full-backs had to drop in and provide cover – which they both did well throughout the game.

Emanuelson v Pirlo

But Milan were the better side, and the main reason was the battle between Urby Emanuelson and Andrea Pirlo. Pirlo has been enjoying a superb season for Juve in the deep-lying role, and having released him last summer, no club knows that better than Milan. Therefore, they instructed Emanuelson to pick up Pirlo when Juve had the ball, and he struggled to dictate the play. Usually he plays 81 passes per game with 85.4% completion ratio, here he played 73 with 82% accuracy – not a huge difference, but his influence was less obvious.

But crucially, Emanuelson charged past Pirlo when Milan won the ball, which meant that Juve’s spare man at the back (the reason Conte had chosen a three-man backline) was no longer evident. Milan could get the ball forward quickly, drag the back three across the pitch out of position (particularly with Robinho’s movement into deep and wide positions), and power through the gaps.

The Juve back three were stranded against the movement of the Milan front three, receiving little protection from Pirlo ahead of them, while Stephane Lichsteiner and Marcelo Estigarribia moved forward as Juve’s third and fourth highest players up the pitch in attacking moves, meaning they were in no position to defend quick breaks.

(The midfield duos of Sulley Muntari-Antonio Nocerino and Claudio Marchisio-Arturo Vidal battled in the centre, with the Milan partnership stronger in the tackle – particularly Muntari, who made nine tackles in the game. By losing the battle in this zone, Juve struggled to connect the midfield and the attack.)

So where was Conte’s mistake? The forward duo probably wasn’t right, certainly. But Juve weren’t really getting the ball forward in the first place for that to be an issue. The problem was in a deeper zone, and the interesting thing is that while a back three logically makes sense against a front two, it probably wasn’t right considering the personnel involved here. Milan’s trequartista, whether Boateng or Emanuelson, is tasked with connecting the midfield and the attack with constant running, and therefore Milan effectively play more than a front two – a front 2.5, perhaps.


The line-ups for the start of the second half

The back three could still have made sense had Juve’s holding player been more of a defensive force – Sergio Busquets, for example – but with Pirlo very much a creator and often strolling back, they were exposed in that position, especially on counter-attacks.

Although we’ve seen Juve play a back three with Pirlo ahead against other sides, it hasn’t quite been in this situation. Even against Udinese, who also play an energetic player in the number ten role (Almen Abdu), Juve were 3-5-2 but up against a 3-5-1-1 – so when Abdi moved forward Juve still had a spare man, the value of which shouldn’t be underestimated.

Juve fightback

Conte switched things at half time, moving from the 3-5-2 to a 4-3-3ish shape by bringing Simone Pepe on for Estigarribia, putting him on the right and moving Quagliarella to a leftish forward role. Interestingly, Milan’s front three seemed to widen as a result, with Emanuelson playing slightly to the right, Robinho more to the left, and Stephan El Shaarawy on for Pato to provide more energy upfront. With Juve wider at the back and two full-backs trying to get forward, Milan now had to work harder at the front.

But the main reason Juve got back into the game was Conte changing his strikers. Even here, he did things in an odd manner – Mirko Vucinic replaced Borriello on 54 minutes and went upfront – we had to wait until 70 minutes for Matri on for Quagliarella. Matri went upfront and Vucinic to the left. It seemed more logical to bring on Matri for Borriello, then Vucinic for Quagliarella – Vucinic clearly isn’t a number nine, while Matri’s ten goals make him Juve’s best striking option by a considerable distance.

Conclusion

Rarely has Conte got it wrong this season – he did here, as the formation and the identity of the starting forwards were both issues. However, he still emerges with credit – first for having the grace (and intelligence) to say he knew he made errors. Second, more importantly, for turning things around and picking up a point.

Milan were very good for the first hour, with Robinho pulling the strings and Emanuelson driving at the Juve defence – his ability to act as part-midfielder, part-forward caused real problems. Playing a shuttler as a trequartista will win Milan few points for beauty, but it does give opponents an unusual threat they find it difficult to respond to.
===================================================================



It's funny because I don't agree with this write up and tend to agree more with Orange14. Emanuelson made several wrong passes when it could have meant a free chance for the goal. I believe he crossed the ball on Mutari who scored (not counted), but a Juve defender deflected it a bit in the arc so it was not purely his crossing skill. I did saw a great corner from the other side, that could have been scored. Good corner from the right (or left for Juve).

However nobody holds a total perfect view and this writer can have his opinion. Maybe there is a bit truth in it. Van Basten however was amazed Pirlo was standing free at a certain moment in his comment on the game. If Emanuelson had to cover him, he at least made a mistake with that observation of Marco. On the other hand, fair is fair, Juve started to really dominate when Emanuelson was taken off (though Juve already started to press somewhat already, which made the Milan trainer to go for a defensive sub ... typical Italians)

The terminology this man uses to describe Emenuelson is interesting. Playing a shuttler as a trequartista. That is correct. Why do I bring this up? Because the idiots on Dutch TV still want Emanulson used as a left back and the same for Drenthe. Both are not oke on left back. I rather play Braafheid there again. Yes he totally flopped against germany, but in the game before that he nullified Shaquiri, who to my understanding is going to play for Bayern next year and is known as a big talent in Europe. It's also funny how in this game all commentators fell obver the fact there was no pressure on the man crossing the ball to Juve striker making the 1-1. If that is such a big deal (which it was) why was that same point not made about van Bommel on Ozil against Germany? van Bommels was directly responsible for the 1-0 and I believe 3-0 where Ozil just walked away from him, he sees that but did not act on it. That's maybe worse then not seeing it at all.

Back to playing a shuttler as a trequartista. If we do not do this for the Dutch NT then it does not make a difference playing RVP or Huntelaar. RVP will continue to suck and Huntelaar fanboys will continue to have a point that he at least knows to score goals against the noob teams being the flat track bully he is. The players that can play behind RVP now after this game are:

1. Afellay
2. Emanuelson
3. Wijnaldum
4. Drenthe
5. Babel (more 9.5 player)

If we move the brain power away from the 10 poistion (Sneijder) and put these less visionary but more deep going souls there, RVP will take matters in own hand in that final third, like he did when Fabregas left Arsenal. Also we have a great player in Sneijder to finally solve midfield distribution. If we wouldn't have shuttlers of any caliber I would never push for something like this. However with Afellay back in training and Emanuelson being able to play some game against Pirlo (good player) I say let's try this against England with Emanuelson. There is a lie out there that VDV could play better with RVP. Well indeed it combines quite nice, but does not enable RVP's perks either. We need players that can run with the ball, being a danger on themselves so RVP can start creating space with crossing runs or make feint runs and go for the tap in waiting on the assist, or what I ofcourse see as the big plus over Huntelaar hold the ball and distribute himself to this shuttler and the wingers more to the side.

I am skeptical Emanuelson is good enough to compensate for even a dysfunctional relationship between Sneijder/VDV and RVP. Because of the quality of the players involved they still create things. Sneijder can dominate on that spot and RVP can still be helpfull running wholes for him and Robben. However I would like to explore the idea of getting more out of him and at the same time solve the build up problem in midfield. This development of Emanuelson has reinforced the case for taking this road in my opinion.

I didn't see the ZonalMarking piece until this morning. I don't agree with it since Pirlo had meters of space out on the pitch and if any thing should be faulted with his play was the passes over the top when the strikers were too slow to get free. I don't think Emanuelson's defense was all that great as he really didn't disrupt things all that much. I think DRB has a very important point about Emanuelson's play and whether the NT should move more to this type of approach. It's worth thinking about. Anyway it's good to see Urby off the bench and into the starting lineup. I think his best play at Ajax was up front.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but at ZDF they said that Braafheid is not a starter for Hoffenheim anymore after a couple of abysmal performances. Sooo.. LB for me should be Pieters or Emanuelson.

With Pieters not having played for so long I think that's exactly why Bert has called up Urby and an Emanuelson in this form will prove that he should start for Oranje.

KJH, RVP, Robben and Sneijder can work upfront because there will be plenty of movement.