England-Netherlands 10-08-2011 [R]

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Alexi Sanchez is the Chilean and a really good, strong, and fast wing player. I think Afellay will still get playing time since he can play both wing and midfield in the Barca formation but your point is well taken. Some clubs are so big and expectations so high, that you need to have not only the ability but nerves of steel to play there (look at the dutch experience at Madrid!). I've not been keen on Castaignos moving to Inter either; too young and the big three Italian teams want fully formed players.
     
  2. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    But on the other side there is this fellow Messi who does quite nice and never gets injured. Then Guardiola sometimes like to play Villa wide also. Pedro was injured when Affelay came. Pedro this year will be fit. Sanchez was a huge buy, which is a statement IMO. Midfield? Xavi, Iniesta. Afellay is not a passer like them. He likes to dribble with his eyes to the ground, instead of looking around. They still want Fabregas and there is this new midfield talent Thiago. I'm sorry but I was skeptical of Affelay making it at Barca (which is nothing to be ashamed about) and I stay with that.
     
  3. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    I don't understand why Barca won't offer Afellay to Arsenal as part of the Cesc transfer. That'd be a great situation for all parties. I think Afellay should be in a starter role (not just a fringe player), and Barca isn't the place that can offer that to him right now.
     
  4. he so scrumptiouz

    Jun 1, 2006
    amsterdam
    ^ @ Barito, they probably did. Afellay was also linked with Spurs earlier this week. I think Barca are trying to get rid, but Afellay wants to stay at all cost.

    When Oranje wins against England and Spain loses against Italy.. Oranje will be the new #1 on FIFA rankings. :)
     
  5. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I think that would be a nice option but now I would like to say ''stop'' to him. Affelay how do you see yourself? What do you want to develop into? The second stage of your career is now ticking. Are you a DM? an AM? A wide player on the right? On the left? I have seen him operate on all those positions the past 2 to 3 years. Maybe he has Cocu as example :D. His problem is he has quality do it all, but not enough of it to battle specialist for it at the absolute top clubs. He has speed, but not exceptional to be a real winger. Has a good shot, but not exceptional and as a result is a bit wasteful for my liking. Has a good pass, but not exceptional. Has a dribble, but not with enough overview to. He has also a good amount of stamina. I maybe like him to go to a club where Affelay can be Affelay. Where he can develop on the spot he loves the most. The attitude of "I just want to play at a top club'' can end into not playing at all as you don't make a real choice.
     
  6. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Hehe, I didn't know this. That's fun. This past year Holland has been very consistently nr 2 and Spain nr 1. Almost like Federer and Nadal in the early years. :D
     
  7. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    I always believe Afellay, given time and opportunities, can/will become a dominating all-around midfielder... think of the likes of Scholes, Essien, Yaya Toure, Fellaini, etc. They are not 'specialist' in attack or defense, but are ever-presence in midfield and very much involved in all actions.

    Afellay certainly has the lungs to do all the running and legwork. He is quick, and he passes the ball with a lot of confidence. He has eyes for getting goals every now and then. The biggest knock for him, for the long time, is his skinny and seemingly fragile physique. He is much improved in this department though, especially compared to 2 or 3 years ago-- and I don't see any reason why he can't develop.

    And that's my comment about Afellay being a good fit at Arsenal coming from. Wenger is a fan of a 'generalist' midfielder... Cesc, Nasri, Song, Wilshere, Diaby, etc. It's hard to pinpoint their exact roles because the midfield is so fluid and dynamically changes. I think with Barca, he fills in where he is needed the most. Yet he should be in a club where he plays the same role week in, week out.
     
  8. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Bert van Marwijk still hasn't lost a 90 minute game.
     
  9. Quackmore

    Quackmore Member

    Jun 5, 2011
    The Netherlands
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He has, his second game, against Australia.
     
  10. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He lost his second game in charge of the Dutch national team at the Philips stadium in the Netherlands in a 90 minute game.

    Netherlands 1-2 Australia

    Keeper Maarten Stekelenburg was send off at the end of the second half with a red card and Australia was given a penalty that resulted in the equalizer. In the 76 minute Joshua Kenney scored the winning goal for Australia against a Holland with 10 men.

    Uruguay had to play even longer with 10 men against Argentina in the recent Copa America and still won the game with penalty's, so v Marwijk failed there. I say that because I just heard Derksen claim he is the best coach in our history. Apparently football has become about resilience instead of sparkling football. I saw good football against the Hungary's and Iceland's of this world but v Marwijk had his chance in the WC. He showed his colour. People who agree with the statement Derksen made, show their colour also. Greatness = Result. I thought the Netherlands was always different from that. I rate v Marwijk, but that label is not for him as long as he doesn't display something that tickles our imagination on an end tournament. Creating beautiful memories because of gusto game play. Playing with big balls in front of you, not hiding them behind your back. Germany was the spectacle of the tournament. In what alternative universe have we come to live? Since when does Germany outshine Holland in game play? At what cost? Being a little higher on a stupid ranking list? Advancing just one round further? Has that satisfied people yet?
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yes! Agree. every. single. word.
     
  12. Quackmore

    Quackmore Member

    Jun 5, 2011
    The Netherlands
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    With these riots in London it wouldn't surprise me if the game is called off.
     
  13. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    If London want to organize the 2012 Olympics, but are not able to deal with a few hundred bored people over the length of almost a week, they should cancel the whole Olympics thing.
     
  14. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Well look at our boy

    http://www.voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid=144417

    Ik heb niet het idee dat ik voor mijn nieuwe medespelers onderdoe”, zegt Castaignos.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  16. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc6_ov6GK68"]‪Tottenham Riots - Fires Over North London‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]
     
  17. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    A competitive game. I stand corrected.
     
  18. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Not even Brazil plays attractive attacking futbol anymore, let's get serious.

    I love how van Basten gets all praise all the time on this board for being so incredible! Yet lost in the Round of 16 and quarter-finals. Laughable. We'll agree to disagree but I'm tired of losing. Tired of losing on penalties. I want to win. You know why Oranje keeps playing amazing futbol against Hungary and Iceland? Because they are horrible. (Sorry Hungary & Iceland).
     
  19. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    van Marwijk is a realist not an idealist, He made it very clear from the first day that he wanted to win as many games as possible no matter how. I don't think he ever tried to hide this.

    You are right, at the end of the day we didn't play beautiful football in the last WC but neither did most of our opponents, in fact some of our opponents didn't even want to play football. they were just scared of us, The game versus Japan is a fine example. Japan simply didn't want to play football. They parked the bus and hoped for a counter or two. van Marwijk knew this and that's why he used de Jong and van Bommel, in case the Japanese tried anything funny.

    The result? It was god awful game! The Japanese had 1 real chance in 94 minutes and we just kept punching their defense until it cracked.

    The qualifier against Hungary is another example, this one however wasn't even capable of parking the bus.

    The qualifier against Sweden showed us something else. Sweden believed in their own football and they were confident that they could beat us. so they tried to play football, and we showed them all the different colors of the spectrum one by one.

    And that is kind of what van Marwijk's philosophy is all about:

    "If you want to play football, we will show you how to play football.. but if all you are interested in is parking the bus, then we will just destroy you and win the game, Doesn't matter how."

    this is of course very un-Dutch as the Dutch style is very idealistic. But this is kind of what we need right now. if we tried to play beautiful football against Japan like we used to do then they might have drawn or even won that game on counters.

    We need to win a world cup as soon as possible. And I thing it's OK if it's not by playing the most beautiful football the world has ever seen. we have shown the world enough beautiful football, We have nothing to prove.

    And people, we don't need to hate our current style this much. We are playing a more German version of our football, it's not like we are playing Italian football.:D
     
  20. vagegast

    vagegast Member

    Sep 25, 2004
    Herndon, VA
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Looking like this one is getting cancelled. From a Daily Telegraph correspondent
     
  21. VHZD

    VHZD Member

    Jun 3, 2007
    Győr, Hungary
    Club:
    PSV Eindhoven
    Nat'l Team:
    Hungary
    Why don't they move it to another city?
     
  22. VHZD

    VHZD Member

    Jun 3, 2007
    Győr, Hungary
    Club:
    PSV Eindhoven
    Nat'l Team:
    Hungary
    And it is officially cancelled. :(
     
  23. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The big idol of Johan Cruyff was not Pele but Faas Wilkes. After that maybe Florian Albert and Alfredo di Stefano, but above all others, Faas Wilkes.

    The man himself in action, getting past a desperate defender:


    [​IMG]


    Here the example talks to the man he inspired:


    [​IMG]



    Television was not available for Johan Cruyff in his youth but heard the commentators about the games of Dutch national team with his idol in it and as a result his imagination started to work. Getting past one, two, three even four players. One time, Wilkes got past a number of men at his club incluiding the keeper, stopped the ball for the goal line, went back so the keeper had a second chance and still scored. That was the idol of Johan Cruyff and he wanted to be just like him. Playfull, energetic, sparkling football. Not afraid to lose, but eager to display your ability on the field to create sensation and beauty. Later in his life he was allowed to see some games of the Dutch national team with Wilkes in it. ''Everything was easy for him'' said Cruyff. ''It didn't cost any effort as it seemed''. He looked, sprinted and hup was passed the player. ''Beautiful'' said Cruyff.

    When did Brazil became our ceiling? Why is Brazil mentioned at all in a discussion about how the Netherlands should play. There is a great history of the Dutch national team before 1974, but if anything, the Dutch style was exactly a huge brake from the South American. In 1974 we beated Uruguay, Argentina and the for mentioned Brazil in overwhelming fashion with exactly our own game style. Irony when 40 years later people start naming Brazil as something of a ''ceiling of the possible'' or even a guideline. Brazil is not on my radar.

    Actually I didn't like v Basten before the Euro 2008. I remember Holland-Argentina, Holland Ivory Coast and what to think about Holland-Portugal. There was that famous talk with him and 8 players to make new agreements on how to play before 2008. I think this has lead to better play. What has made v Basten more respected than before Euro 2008, was his substitution of Engelaar for Robben in the 46 minute, midfielder for attacker in the game vs France, while it was already 1-0 for us. Yes France started to pressure us, butthen it became 2-0 and a minute after the French goal, Robben (the sub) scored 3-1 and later it became 4-1.

    I understand how every time period is a reaction on previous era's. That's why I don't get too upset about the situation. However, after v Marwijk, I like to appoint a coach with a more daring style of play, that doesn't look to disrupt, but to marvel. Though I don't know if that coach will have the players to do it, like van Marwijk had.
     
  24. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Hmm, I read it a bit different. Even against weak country's v Marwijk plays with 2 defensive midfielders, but the quality of the opponent is so low and the quality of the front four is so great, it looks nice nevertheless. As a result of that, the conservative tactics are masked and it looks oke nevertheless. Against tough country's or country's who are not willing to play, it gets exposed and he just keeps it conservative, disruptive and hopes again the individual class of the front four will take care of 1 or 2 goals as keeping it tight at the back has become the alpha and omega of the game. Play not to lose instead of playing to overrun our opponent and entertain the crowd. To break their harts and steal their fans.

    Like Germany lost from Australia?

    If you dance with the devil, the devil don't change; he changes you.

    In the WC final we maybe played worse than the Italians ever did. What should have been a climax between the inventor of total football and the one who has learned to play it (NB via Cruyff and Barcalona), became an anti climax because the former one betrayed it ways. Looking out to disrupt instead of to flow, create and overrun. Something that Chili could almost do against them, with 10 men.
     
  25. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    England and London need to reconsider organizing the Olympics. Why would I trust them with organizing the Olympics, while they can't get control over a situation that has the power to disrupt something not bigger than just a friendly?
     

Share This Page