End of collective bargaining/other anti-union measures plus reactions ...

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by purojogo, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You posted it in response to my comment saying I can't understand why anyone would oppose the right to collective bargaining.

    FDR did not oppose the right to collective bargaining for government workers, or for private workers. He supported it.

    Is that the point you were trying to make by posting that one paragraph out of context?
     
  2. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    you read that letter and you got that out of it?
     
  3. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. Because I'm literate.
     
  4. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    can you point out where he "did not oppose the right to collective bargaining for government workers"?
     
  5. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Marek,FDR opposed the right to strike,not the right to collective bargaining.

    Get it now?

    Now if you want to argue that the right to strike is the only thing that makes collective bargaining effective,go right ahead.

    But you haven't said that.
     
  6. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    "The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters."

    really?
     
  7. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    we found the solution to everything that ails these nation's economy and the welbeing of its citizens....

    Amanda Terkel on the ground in Madison, Wisconsin, talking to the teabaggers who were bused in by the Koch brothers to Saturday's rally
    Teabaggers In Madison: Corporations Shouldn't Have To Pay Taxes

    But there is a source of revenue the state isn't tapping that could likely be far more lucrative.

    According to the Wisconsin Department of Revenue, two-thirds of corporations in the state pay no taxes, and the share of corporate tax revenue funding the state government has fallen by half since 1981.

    ...................................


    anyway Walker is not in a negotiating mood:

    "This morning on MSNBC, Gov. Scott Walker (R-Wis.) rejected a compromise proposal put forth by a moderate Republican in the state Senate. Sen. Dale Schultz's plan would still strip away the collective bargaining rights of public employees, but only temporarily -- they would be reinstated in 2013.

    When asked by host Chuck Todd whether he could support such a proposal, Walker responded, "No." He said he wouldn't have to veto it because it would never even make it to his desk.


    "It will never get to me because other than that one state senator, all the rest of the Republicans are firmly behind our proposal, all the other members of the majority that we need to pass this are similarly behind us. Because they recognize what I've been saying all along: You cannot have a short-term fix," said Walker"
     
  8. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That still doesn't mean collective bargaining cannot take place.

    It may set the parameters and limitations of negitiation points,but the point is management negotiation with the entire unit for the work rules of that unit.
     
  9. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if we want to bring up FDR excerpts.....Wish Obama had half the conviction this guy did...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3NTUNQzr3k"]YouTube - FDR Fireside Chat. 2nd Bill of Rights[/ame]

    http://www.austincc.edu/lpatrick/his2341/fdr36acceptancespeech.htm
    "It was natural and perhaps human that the privileged princes of these new economic dynasties, thirsting for power, reached out for control over government itself. They created a new despotism and wrapped it in the robes of legal sanction. In its service new mercenaries sought to regiment the people, their labor, and their property. And as a result the average man once more confronts the problem that faced the Minute Man."
    ..

    "For out of this modern civilization economic royalists carved new dynasties. New kingdoms were built upon concentration of control over material things. Through new uses of corporations, banks and securities, new machinery of industry and agriculture, of labor and capital - all undreamed of by the Fathers - the whole structure of modern life was impressed into this royal service".
     
  10. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good one. When context shows your interpretation to be wrong, cut out even more of it.
     
  11. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Suppose it should be mentioned that the Establishment has masterfully played the tribal-rivalry card in getting private-sector workers to join it in busting the public-sector unions. Or at least, to sit by idly while the Establishment does the busting.

    And that with certain notable and lurid exceptions, that college-educated public workers aren't actually better paid than college-educated private workers, even accounting for benefits.
     
  12. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Someone ought to take a closer look at the Koch brothers as well (had to find a shorter version of the vid that did not reference a certain someone i said i said i would not talk about during February)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AHei5itCsY"]YouTube - Here Comes The Koch Brothers![/ame]

    " A number of the big business interests standing with Walker are beneficiaries of his administration’s tax giveaways. But the greatest ally to Walker is the dirty energy company Koch Industries. In response to the growing protests in Madison, Koch fronts are busing in Tea Party protesters to support Walker and his union-busting campaign. Last night, MSNBC’s Ed Schultz reported on the involvement of Club for Growth and the Koch-financed Americans for Prosperity in the pro-Walker protest scheduled tomorrow. [...]

    Koch Industries was one of the biggest contributors to Walker’s gubernatorial campaign, funneling $43,000 over the course of last year. In return, Koch front groups are closely guiding the Walker agenda. The American Legislative Exchange Council, another Koch-funded group, advised Walker and the GOP legislature on its anti-labor legislation and its first corporate tax cuts.

    According to the EPA, Koch businesses are huge polluters, emitting thousands of pounds of toxic pollutants. As soon as he got into office Walker started cutting environmental regulations and appointed a Republican known for her disregard for environmental regulations to lead the Department of Natural Resources. In addition, Walker has stated his opposition to clean energy jobs policies that might draw workers away from Koch-owned interests."

    ....

    BTW let's give them more tax breaks since they create jobs...
    "Koch Industries is a major player in Wisconsin: Koch owns a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin. While Koch controls much of the infrastructure in the state, they have laid off workers to boost profits. At a time when Koch Industries owners David and Charles Koch awarded themselves an extra $11 billion of income from the company, Koch slashed jobs at their Green Bay plant:

    Officials at Georgia-Pacific said the company is laying off 158 workers at its Day Street plant because out-of-date equipment at the facility is being replaced with newer, more-efficient equipment. The company said much of the new, papermaking equipment will be automated. [...] Malach tells FOX 11 that the layoffs are not because of a drop in demand. In fact, Malach said demand is high for the bath tissue and napkins manufactured at the plant.
     
  13. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because you took a paragraph out of context.
     
  14. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yet another paragraph out of context. The entire letter states that government employees have the same rights as employees of the private sector, including th ability to collective bargaining. However, he points out that government employee strikes are not something he supported.

    Bargaining - yes

    Striking - no

    Reread the entire letter, and let it sink in.
     
  15. Kobranzilla

    Kobranzilla Member

    Sep 6, 2001
    NY F'in City
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    HERE is the entire letter

     
  16. JeremyEritrea

    JeremyEritrea Member+

    Jun 29, 2006
    Takoma Park, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I posted the same link and the same text in post #148
     
  17. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    Wow. Marek is really dumb.

    Much more importantly, this is a defining moment we are seeing in Wisconsin. Look, I think reasonable people can disagree about the contracts of public employees. Hell, some of the pension giveaways in New York -- the biggest of all time, I might add, was by the Honorable Republican Governor sometimes mentioned as a candidate for Pres, George Pataki -- are not only too high, but borderline abusive of the taxpayers. And I'm saying that as a wild eyed lefty.

    Nevertheless, to take away the right of workers to negotiate as a group is, frankly, totalitarian. This is nothing less than a putsch, the republicans in Wisconsin are using the power of a democratic victory to de-democratize the state and the nation.
     
  18. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not just in Wisconsin. They're doing this, via various mechanisms, all over the country. This is the GOP strategy. Take away the ability of your enemy to fight. Which is, for the most part, fine in war. But in politics, it's simply undemocratic.
     
  19. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    Citizens union.
     
  20. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    just b/c you say so does not make is so
     
  21. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True. It's because you did it that makes it so.
     
  22. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-eCX8guIVM"]YouTube - "La, la, la, lah...still not listening!"[/ame]
     
  23. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That looks way to much like "Citizens United" which similar to the WI union-busting was also a huge Koch Bros initiative/payoff repayment - and, possibly ironically - has nothing at all to do with actual citizens.
     
  24. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    i've now quoted two paragraphs from the letter, how many more are left?
     
  25. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    right, citizens union is a good government group here in NY.
     

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