Einmal Löwe--Immer Löwe (TSV 1860 München Official Thread 09/10 IV [R])

Guess we are over 1000 and time for a new thread....

And to pick up where we left off......

Yes, there is. LB gave it. Once again, you simply dismiss what you don't want to deal with.

Is there a better reason? Give it.

You always demand shit from us, you provide for a change.

Remember the analogy I gave with Dortmund?

That's part of it too. They hid whatever they could until the club was on the brink of collapse.

Another way I can tell your "argument" is a bit weak?

You resort to going to the other extreme.

That's what people normally do when they don't have a leg to stand on......

Keith, I would not bother. People like that want us to provide information we CANNOT give because Stevic refuses to release the information; the SAME information Reuter made public. Rather than asking WHY Stevic won't release the financial data -- something which most clubs release prior to license renewal -- should be the question people like that need to ask. We can no more give 1860's balance sheet and we can guess at how much Cris has in his bank account. We CAN extrapolate what 1860 has based on what we know: they run a 3m euro MINIMUM shortfall every year in their operating budget, they MAY have made that up with player sales but we do not know for certain, no large sponsorships have been found to defray that operating gap, and our contracts have not been restructured to reduce the operating deficit.

There is an old Hungarian saying: "Do not engage in discussions of finance with the bathroom attendant." People who do not want to understand, or bother to understand, finances will only see what they are told to see.

Pappas had a great goal. I like the effort of this guy in general.

Rösler was not good in this game. I thought he had been getting better but this was actually a step back as he was not moving much or effectively. He only was in position to score the goal (which he converted well) because he hung his head and then happened to be in great position when 1860 got the ball back.

Garry, Lauth played. I think you are right about a lot of things but you got totally carried away with Lauth not playing midweek. It is perfectly normal to jiggle the line-up when you have 3 games in a week. It turned out to be a bad mix but I have no problem resting Lauth when he already has problems with 90 minutes (and I think Lauth does a good job but he cannot play hard for 90 minutes, he looks winded after 5 if he has a long run).

About Kiraly patzers, I did not mention this earlier but I do not think it was mentioned here--did anyone else get a chuckle when he tried to catch the ball in the other goal box late in the Ahlen game? I assume that was a brain cramp but if it was some form of gamesmanship (he couldn't reach the ball), it would be even funnier.

As I am not German I have trouble keeping my Aalen's and Ahlen's and Aachen's straight. Does anyone else have that trouble?

Agreed...but I was going on the Kicker report that Lauth was being benched. Clearly that was not the case. The reports were that he had fallen out of favor with Lienen and that the coach wanted a change. I guess the reports were wrong or they patched things up. IMHO I think Lauth played better, still not his best but I think that is due to him playing injured.

Watch how he limps after he sprints...it is painful to watch. Look what happened to Biero playing so long last year injured. Hope that does not happen to Lauth.

Side Note: Cooper only came on as a sub in his match.

I did!!!! It almost looked like he was trying parry it.

Yeah, at first. My problem is I get confused when there were so many Rot/Weiss teams in the 2.BL....Oberhausen, Ahlen, Erfurt, etc.

Not anymore!

Schaeffler sent to U23s

...for not warming up "properly" before being put in tot he game for Lauth on the weekend. Torben was supposed to warm up the guys on the touchline and, evidently, Schaeffler did not do his warm ups right (or at all). Lienen was furious but put him in anyway.

He has been sent to the U23s for two weeks and then, as Lienen said, "We shall see."

Not sure what constitutes warming up right, but he must have f'd off over there for Lienen to be that pissed. Either that or the bug Lienen has up his arse over Schaeffler is huge.

Re: Schaeffler sent to U23s

Well, you said Torben was in charge of warming them up.

You don't think there's a possibility that Torben told Lienen Schaeffler was being a punk ass?

I told you when you started hyping this kid that there's nothing special about him.

Who's to say he hasn't become another Pourie???

Re: Schaeffler sent to U23s

There is a bit more to the story than is being said, I cannot say any more than that. It [the discrepancy] was akin to asking someone to do push ups and then busting them because you thought they should have gone down further...let's just leave it at that.

Re: Schaeffler sent to U23s

We used to get disciplined for not doing that.

That's what it all comes back around to.

Discipline.

Or, in some cases, lack thereof.

But OK. I just wanted to point out that it could be Schaeffler just as much as Lienen.

Re: Schaeffler sent to U23s

Big difference between the military and a soccer team.

Trust me....it is more than just a simple disagreement.

Re: Schaeffler sent to U23s

Actually, not much when you're discussing the importance of discipline in both professions.

You can't be as successful without it in either profession.

The major difference is when we lack discipline the military, the team falls apart and if at war or even at training, people die.

On a big-time football club, the team falls apart and fans make people wish they were dead. LOL!!

Either way, in both professions, without discipline, the team falls apart.

Won't argue about that. I don't know what happened.

But I do know disciplinary issues need to be nipped in the bud.

Even if it is just a "soccer team."

Suffice to say pressure is being put to bear on Lienen to play certain players. The excuse hunt has begun.

I can believe that. But how exactly would that bring about a need to send Schaeffler down?

I wouldn't put what you're suggesting past them, but I wouldn't rule out an actual problem with Schaeffler either.

Unless I'm just not getting what you're saying and you're suggesting that you somehow know the alleged problem is bogus.

Paderborn gg. 1860

Line up is below. Since Lienen never starts what he puts down on paper below my guess is he might put Felhi in for Ghvinianidze. Also, training is reporting Aigner with an ankle injury. Given we have reported guys and "injured" or "benched" only to start them and play them 90 mins in the past, this could be just a smoke screen.

Paderborn have won 3 of their last 5, taking the likes of KSC, Union and Cottbus; losing to the likes of a resurging FSV and table leaders FCK. They are no easy mark.

1860 have also won 3 of 5, beating GF, Hansa and Aachen while losing to lowly Ahlen and inconsistent KSC. They will need to play hard to beat a surging Paderborn.

SCP: 1 Jensen - 7 Wemmer, 24 Strohdiek, 26 Gonther, 8 Schachten - 18 Krösche - 15 Guié-Mien, 5 Alushi, 21 Brückner - 11 Saglik, 39 Daghfous.

Bench: 19 Burchert, 20 Lange (beide Tor) - 2 Zedi, 3 Holst, 6 Mohr, 9 Löning, 12 Brandy, 13 Schuppan, 14 Klukin, 23 Halfar, 31 Krause.

Not Available: 4 Wachsmuth (Knie), 16 Krecidlo (Hüftprobleme), 17 Heithölter (Achillessehne), 22 Masuch (Lauftraining), 29 Manno (Kreuzbandanriss), 30 Bertram (Trainingsrückstand).

1860: 1 Kiraly - 2 Rukavina, 6 Beda, 19 Ghvinianidze, 14 Holebas - 8 Ignjovski, 18 Ludwig - 15 Aigner, 17 Pappas - 11 Lauth, 10 Rösler.

Bench: 12 Tschauner (Tor) - 4 Hoffmann, 5 Felhi, 9 Rakic, 20 Camdal, 21 Kaiser, 22 Uzoma, 26 Mlapa, 35 Biancucchi, 36 Stahl.

Not Available: 3 M. Antonio (Schultereckgelenksverletzung), 7 Bierofka (Aufbautraining), 24 Lovin (Reha nach Kreuzbandriss), 25 Hofmann (Jochbein- und Kiefer-OP), 27 Schäffler, 32 Lushtaku (beide U23).

Schiedsrichter: Daniel Siebert (Berlin); Assistenten: Martin Bärmann (Leipzig), Jan Seidel (Hennigsdorf); Vierter Offizieller: Tino Wenkel (Göttingen).

Speaking Of FSV......

Resurgent? I guess.

They have taken eight points from their last four matches.

Not "resurgent" in my book, but I guess if you're FSV Frankfurt, it sure is.

Anyhow, that's not what I wanted to write about.

Today's "Kicker" speculates that former Sechzig player Nikolas Ledgerwood may finally be getting his chance at FSV.

With Mehic and Lagerblom out, Ledgerwood is apparantly the only thing they have left to play the "6" position since they released Soumalia Coulibaly earlier in the week.

Good luck to Ledgerwood.

Re: Speaking Of FSV......

Comparatively. They were door mats...now they are just above that.

Wish 1860 has kept him. I rate him higher than Ignjovski and think he fights damn hard. He is better than Uzoma to be certain. Problem is he never finds a team that plays him where he is best. Oh well, good luck to the lad.

Re: Speaking Of FSV......

Yeah, I can go with that. LOL!!

Dude, you know I'm no fan of Ignjovski's. Not one bit. However, he is better than freakin' Ledgerwood.

I don't see how you compare Ledgerwood and Uzoma. Ledgerwood is a D-Mid, Uzoma an attacking midfielder.

Dude, Ledgerwood is where he is for a reason. If he was nearly as good as you make him out to be, it wouldn't take injuries to a has-been (Lagerblom) and a nobody (Mehic/I actually know his sister) for Ledgerwood to finally break FSV Frankurt's lineup.

Man, when you decide some kids are good, you just don't let go. If there's one of their "young talents" I never lose sleep over Sechzig losing, it is Ledgerwood.

I wish you'd get that fixated on Dominik Stahl. I think even he's going to be better than Ledgerwood, if he isn't already. I'd venture to say he is already.

Ledgerwood gets props from me for being a battler. That's all well and good, but it also isn't enough.

The good thing is that Ledgerwood is young and can still improve.

But again, I'm not losing any sleep over 1860 losing him. I think Stevic has done better with Cubic Zirconia and Stahl coming up.

Re: Speaking Of FSV......

Matter of opinion. I think Ignjovski has more POTENTIAL than Ledgerwood, but Nick is a solid player. He is not a top tier 2.BL starter, but he is a solid replacement and bench player.

And yet they are BOTH being played out of the natural positions by their respective clubs.

And it could never be he is on a shiite team, with shiite coaches who have not used ANY of their personal properly and are in the position they are in now? Please.

I never said the is the answer. I have always maintained he is a good, solid bench player. He will never be a top-tier 2.BL starter. But he has always been a solid, reliable DM for his level of play.

I have watched him too for quite a while. I just don't want to say anything because you will give me shiite about it. The MAIN reason I am not getting excited about him is because he won't BE with us much longer. Stevic has YET to sign the kid to a contract extension and, if I were his agent, I would not sign one. Rumors are that he is being looked at by FCA, FCK, FCN and a few other clubs. He won't be at Sechzig much longer thanks to Herr Stevic's incompetence.


Ledgerwood gets props from me for being a battler. That's all well and good, but it also isn't enough.

Stahl was Kurz's boy when he was in charge of the U23s.

Re: Speaking Of FSV......

Isn't most of this a matter of opinion??

We can go from what has occurred in Munich and Frankfurt.

What are you talking about? Ledgerwood has been played out of position TWICE by FSV.

This is the very same club you used the word "resurgent" to describe just yesterday.

So are you saying it is somehow their fault Ledgerwood can't PROVE HIMSELF??

For the 2. Liga? I don't know. You saw that. I never did. He is one of them I thought you really overrated.

I like Ledgerwood and think he has the potential to get to that point, but he hasn't shown me anything that says he's a solid, RELIABLE 2. Liga DM. If he were, he'd surely be starting for FSV. And I don't buy that FSV has somehow brought him down or are "misusing" him.

You won't get any argument from me there except on the giving you shite joke.

And given Stevic's track record, just about anyone who was good under Kurz and Wolf isn't good enough for him.

Again, no argument there. I can definitely see Kurz bringing him up to Kaiserslautern.

Hey man, at least we can still cheer for him there! LOL!!

Paderborn gg. 1860

12 mins in and Paderborn gets a very questionable PK call on Beda. Converted for a 1-0 lead.

Re: Paderborn gg. 1860

Damn. Guess I'd better drop this work and get home to catch that! LOL!!

Come on boys!!

[result]78th Minute: 3-1 Paderborn[/result]

Re: Paderborn gg. 1860

Very questionable. Looked to me like the dude flopped.

Well, I hope this is not the beginning of our annual spring swan dive into relegation danger. After the PK we just seemed flat.