Einmal Löwe – Immer Löwe/TSV 1860 München Official Thread 2012/2013 [R]

Discussion in 'Germany: Clubs' started by LoewenBoy, Jul 2, 2012.

?

Where will 1860 end up in May

Poll closed Sep 2, 2012.
  1. Top 3: Promoted at last!

    31.3%
  2. Rank 4-6: Nice run but not quite.

    43.8%
  3. Rank 7-12: Mid-table disappointment.

    18.8%
  4. Rank 12-15: Almost relegated by save by the bell.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Rank 16-18: Relegated to oblivion

    6.3%
  1. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 20, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Most clubs don't have a huge German automaker as one of their major partners. Bayern and Wolfsburg being the most obvious exceptions.

    Seat, who I believe is owned by VW, is a mid-level partner at BVB, but I believe the only one who drives a Seat is Klopp and he only does because he actually does some advertising for them.

    Audi is the driving force behind FC Ingolstadt 04, but I doubt you'll find any of their players driving Audis.

    Club leadership, yes. Players? No.

    Just as LB says it is at 1860..........
     
  2. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They probably just get the favorable lease terms that I mentioned.
     
  3. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 20, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    In the GW area, razing and rebuilding will possibly cost around that 100M if not more.

    However, this is what 1860 should have been doing back in the day instead of getting involved with the AA.

    People will say "hindsight is 20/20", but plenty of guys I knew railed against KHW for doing this back when it was happening. Others said they found ways to renovate GW Stadion privately (read: without city help) but KHW and the city (who I believe still owns GW Stadion) wouldn't go for it. So KHW could always say the city forced him into the AA. As I remember, it was a vicious circle.

    LB, WB, do I have this wrong? :unsure:
     
  4. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 20, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    If you mean BVB, no they don't. AFAIK, any player who wants to drive a Seat can drive on free of charge. I think they just don't want to.
     
    Boandlkramer repped this.
  5. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

    Apr 9, 2009
    Samma Weltmeister!
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany

    Who would?! LOL!
     
  6. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ;)
    No, many clubs have a deal with one of the local dealerships for favorable lease terms for the players. I'd be surprised if BVB didn't have a deal with a local.
     
  7. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    From what I understand the big issue is relaying the foundation and making sure it can support the weight of a different stadium. Not sure of the costs or who would cover them, but I assume that would all be up in the air. The City owns the grounds so they are not likely to give up the property. 1860 is not likely to pay for demolition AND rebuilding. So someone would have to pay for one or the other. That is where the Devil lies.

    KHW could not get the AA built fast enough. He was not drug into that fiasco, he went willingly...shit, joyfully. He saw it as final validation of 1860 having "made it back" to the BL, and the building block for a great future. However, the financing model was all wrong and he and club management KNEW it. We are cursed with revolving management that tends not to learn from history. I *hope* that we have finally learned our lesson with that regard and not do anything for which we cannot pay cash.

    As you said, Keith, I think the Loewen faithful who are realistic know any talk of a new stadium is a long-term issue. I fear I will be bouncing grandchildren on my knee before it happens. I think the barriers are 1) having a place to go, 2) having the financing that does not burden the club to pay for the new build, 3) having UH pick his buy out price and stick with it.

    Until those three things are lined up any talk of a new home grounds is moot.
     
    footyfan1 repped this.
  8. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    Loewen News 7-12-12:

    The TZ is reporting (but not really citing any sources) that talks between 1860 and Ismael Blanco are "advancing" or in the advanced stages. They speculate that Blanco will be in Austria on Monday at the 1860 camp, possibly for a meet and greet or medical or to be presented.

    Given the money already laid out, and the fact this guy is transfer-free and all the other top striker candidates would cost us something or more likely to go elsewhere, I would have to rate this rumor pretty highly likely. It is the only name that keeps resurfacing and Hinterberger does not appear to travelling anywhere else to look at anyone. Only time will tell.
     
  9. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Almost. Only we had this "eternal stadium issue" already in the mid 90ies when KHW decided to go for Olympiastadion when we got promoted shortly before. Oly would offer more seats, better advertising, Grünwalder was already out-dated back then etc. in the end it would get the club more money. The problem was/is the club had his biggest success in this stadium why many fans such as me, who didnt even witnessed them, look back nostalgically to it. The fans wanted to see Grünwalder rebuild but KHW wanted to go for Oly and the city(yes, its the owner) refused to give money for the renovation. Allianz Arena then came later on.

    Today it is almost impossible to build a stadium as 1860 would need it there. It is too close to houses in the area. But though it is currently under renovation for 3rd Liga(and lower) soccer.

    Many like me consider Riem, (area of Munichs former airport, now there is here Munichs trade fair) as the best solution.

    You have the "space" for a stadium site there, you got public transport already there, almost no people who could sue the living daylights out of you if you want to build a stadium there and it likely would be cheaper than the old Grünwalder location.
     
    footyfan1 repped this.
  10. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks Keith, good info.


    One of my European dreams/loves is being able to walk to a stadium from my hotel/apartment etc. When I was in Denmark I found quite a few of their stadiums right in the heart of the city, so cool. Now its funny, in the US we want all our new stadiums down town, the urban stadium is the dream.
     
  11. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    People complain about going to the AA now...going to Riem would not work IMHO.

    I hear rumors of going west or south a bit.
     
  12. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The results of the survey on 1860s stadium issue:

    78,6 % are discontent with Allianz Arena

    preferred future stadium location:
    61,2 % Grünwalder Stadiin (rebuilt)
    23,2 % new stadium somewhere else (e.g Riem)
    8,9 % Allianz Arena
    3,9 % Grünwalder Stadion (as it is now)

    location of a own stadium:

    71,4 % Grünwalder Stadion
    9,1 % Riem
    7,7 % Fröttmaning (near AA)
    3,7 % Olympia-Zentrum
    rest % others

    location for a new stadium:

    37,8 % Riem
    28,6 % Giesing
    6,4 % Olympia
    1,5 % Fröttmaning

    size of a possible new stadium:

    average estimate on stadium capacity "36.580"
    17,8 % ----> 30.000
    32,4 % ----> 35.000
    26,7 % ----> 40.000

    ticket prices:

    34,5 % ----> higher ticket prices
    53,3 % ----> current ticket prices
    11,3 % ----> lower ticket prices

    want to see 1860 play in:

    65,9 % 1st Buli
    2,5 % international business
    9,5 % 2nd Buli
    0,2 % 3rd buli
    0,2 % Regionalliga
    1,1 % Bayernliga
     
  13. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    U'Haching Sportpark or Dantestadion ??? :D

    Let us know more about these rumors........
     
  14. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
  15. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Germany:1860 Munich beat Duisburg 4-0 in a friendly today Stoppelkamp scored twice Ben Lauth & Max Nicu were also on target for 1860.

    Any English 1860 twitter news out there?
     
  16. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How often do they do these surveys?

    Not sure if my breaking up the quotes will work, but here goes.

    How far is Riem from the club?
    What part of town is this? Suburbs?

    GW wins every time, even if the economics don't make sense.

    Where is Giesing compared to Riem?


    When was the last time 1860 averaged 35,000? 40,000 - I'm just asking. I would have thought they drew well back in the B1 days.

    Some super great fans willing to pay more. Good job.
    11% - geez, you want a new stadium and Bundesliga for lower prices.


    I'm surprised that number isn't higher.
     
  17. Karen Walker

    Karen Walker New Member

    Nov 22, 2007
    Loewenboy's all time favorite Berhalter, trainer of Hammarby, signed Nik Ledgerwood.

    From the Yanks Abroad forum:
    Maybe you 1860 guys can shine some light on Ledgerwood as a player in the quoted discussion?
     
  18. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I hardly ever remember us winning 4-0 in a pre.season game against a league opponent. I heard they were lucky it was only fou.r But there is various reasons for that as we're 3 weeks ahead in preparations. Dont give much anything about these test matches, as we drew Man City 1-1 in 09/10. Pics here. Stoppelkamp quote: "We adumbrate today what we could do next season but this just was a pre-season match. Anyway, Im not here for a playing for mid-table spot, my goal is Bundesliga".
     
  19. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 20, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I wouldn't be. I would expect that dealer to also advertise in the stadium magazine too.

    I still get them. There aren't any.

    But of course, that's an assumption on my part.....
     
  20. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 20, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Not to take anything away from 1860, but I don't expect Duisburg to be very good this coming season. Duisburg will probably wind up in the relegation battle this coming season. They are a bit of a mess.........
     
  21. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 20, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Could it be that people are complaining about the AA's location simply because it is the AA???

    Might they be more open to traveling a bit further to 1860's own place?

    Even though we know it is a big crack-pipe dream at the moment? ;) :ROFLMAO:
     
    Boandlkramer repped this.
  22. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Never before. This spring up until now has been the first time. But the results are not more than an „open secret“. The man behind this survey did it cause he „wanted to know how the fans really think“ and „to have real figures to work and argue with“. As he isnt from inside the club it shows 1860 is(has been) not the place where democracy took place that much often. The current club delegeate election system, that is going to be changed this summer, still derives in its authorical structures from KHW.

    Riem, is a western suburb, though it is city territory. Just as far outside as AA. Former airport area – today on the wide ranges a new city district is built and Munichs trade fair has moved there. One could say the last place before the city ends. Riem could be a bit closer to the city core. I already stated the obvious advantages before.

    Unfortunately yeah, that's why Fussball is about passion - not about sense.

    Giesing is the heart of Fussball Munich. As the clubs training grounds of 1860 and Bayern and Grünwalder Stadion altogether lie here south-east very close to Munichs core.

    38.000 in around 96/97, yeah the Bundesliga days, though they slightly declined in the end. In AA we had in 2nd Buli in 05/06 stadium-tourism season with 42.000 average attendance. 1860 fan base is just around as it is in the last bad two years: around 25.000 +++.

    Yeah, Im also happy about that. That 11 % maybe is explained by the fact that the prices are already high for 2nd Buli in AA. Im personally okay with higher prices.

    Some nostalgia towards Bayernliga times, when it was possible to get to away games via bicycle and S-Bahn.
     
    panicfc repped this.
  23. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    That's the point. Since we sold our share AA is Bayerns stadium. And Riem wouldnt change anything as it isnt further away. Yeah, even if, it would be our own place.
     
  24. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 20, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States



    I would give you my opinion of Nik, but I've had enough of LB's wrath over the years about him....... ;) :laugh:
     
  25. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 20, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Thanks man. I was actually looking for an answer to that question.......
     

Share This Page