Yeah well that's your issue. The History of Harvard's Women's soccer program isn't exactly flush with All Americans. Unless, of course, you count only academic all americans. I applaud them for that.
Some of this discussion is scary. Academic money at MOST schools is a lot more flush than athletic money. If a student athlete isn't the "cream of the crop" at soccer then even more reason to separate herself from the pack in other ways...volunteering, diversifying interests, public service, academic awards. Forget the IVYs in money discussions, they are an anomaly. For the others, a good soccer fit is important and ODP does not make a good player an elite player, but maintaining a 4.0, playing for a good club, and participating in say "soccer without borders" (only one example, there are a ton of opportunities, some religious, many not) gets the attention of the scholarship committees. Even scholarships such as WICHE (where western states give 1.25 of instate tuition to select out of state students and several Kentucky and Georgia schools, others do too) can be a HUGE dollar amount if your kid wants to go to any of these schools. They are not automatic in most cases, you h ave to apply, but they are automatically renewed every year if you keep a 3.0. Colorado State for instance gets dozens of applications for Wiche and grants maybe 2. To the top well rounded students. But it is for 4 years. Not so with soccer coaches who are sometimes borderline flippant with re-allocation of money, dumping scholarships for the lesser players.
multisport, I agree. Some folks on here sound like club coaches trying to put feathers in their cap and there are lots of ways to get the cost down (and still play quality soccer in college). I read recently that in a typical year there is about 800 times more "other" financial aid than athletic aid in DI and II (and NAIA). Some folks don't look much past all the hype that goes with posting commits on the website. You hear about This big-time school and That big-time school but you almost never hear about the end game - what happened to the player later? How many games did they play, start, or did they even play 4 years? They aren't getting drafted and most kids need to realize that outside of soccer, it's ALL about the GPA in college so you better pick a place with a major you like where you are confident you can be successful. Those other kids in your Physics class didn't have a 3-day road trip before the exam like you did and the Professor does not care. The name on the degree and a Conf. championship medal mean nothing to an employer or grad school if all you have is a 2.6. (but posting those big-time schools that kids commit too sure helps the club folks...)
I have heard people with the cost of college today the return is not there. For the most part an undergrad degree is an undergrad degree. Sure there are some schools that help and certain majors it makes a difference but all in all it does not matter that much especially when after your first real job. Get the money any way you can athletics academic and pay as little as you can. Your better off putting your money into a good grad school. Get good grades at any accredited university plus having college athletics on your resume you will get into most grad schools.
Just the facts - FWIW. Our club team still is a mix of 2012 and 2013. The team started very strong at Ulittle and kinda fell apart later. We had one girl commit in 11th grade to commit to another school in 12th grade. This kid is a player. Both schools were in the final 2 last decade. The one she decommited from - several times. First girl to commit in 11th grade - full ride, school changed coaches, lost it all somehow. Not clear and too painful to talk about. School is in th 100+ ranking Had a 10th grader commit to a recent national champion. She a 2013 - we shall see. All others - about 18 going someplace. 7 are healthy. 11 are injured (really) 4 of the 7 2012s are injured. Not really funny, but one has been injured since U15 and is still Topdrawer top 50.
I have heard people with the cost of college today the return is not there. For the most part an undergrad degree is an undergrad degree. Sure there are some schools that help and certain majors it makes a difference but all in all it does not matter that much especially when after your first real job. Get the money any way you can athletics academic and pay as little as you can. Your better off putting your money into a good grad school. Get good grades at any accredited university plus having college athletics on your resume you will get into most grad schools.You are right that for the most part undergraduate schools don't "matter" that much, it is what the student puts in to it that gets them into grad school or that job and honestly, that employer doesn't care if you played for a good team or a losing team. I had one student who got a big international accounting position over another applicant because the difference in their credentials was that she played college softball. She played for a losing NAIA teamand obviously was at a small school. The employer said that he hired her because she "could clearly be a team player, could budget her time, showed tenacity, and didn't always have to win". With regards to specific majors, there are certainly some schools that excel but there are always choices. For example, UCLA has a top neuroscience major. But so does Oberlin College in Ohio. Playing time and money would dictate that Oberlin might be a better selection for most players. I had 2 students from Colorado Rush who were decent D1 prospects, got offered some small scholarships and then went to Midland Lutheran on full rides (NAIA has way different rules and scholly packages) They got the same BA in nursing as their counterparts at the big schools and played every game, all conference, etc. It is the parents as much as the club egos who drive some of this madness.
Some good posts here. I had one daughter play at UK, another at Cumberlands here in Kentucky. They both received great educations, both played a good level of soccer, both got into their first choice of grad schools first try. Big school, little school, public, private...it is all what you make of it. CVAL is spot on that if you played a sport and kept up your grades, you will be at the top of most grad school's list. Get the most for your money and take advantage of every opportunity.
Thought this was interesting and a good example of the way college coaches look at players and teams at the club level. FWIW, as a different perspective. The team is all 2013's. Started off as a small club team, descent within the state but pretty mediocre. Worked hard with parents and players committed to one another and the club. Now I would consider them a very strong regional team. Only 3 girls had verbal commitments at the end of last season. during tryouts after several players decided not to play any longer, picked up 5 new players, four of which already had college commitments, a couple to some impressive schools. I bring this up as an example of a very good team that worked their way to being a very good club team, but because they were not a high profile team did not get many looks from college coaches. They do not have any superstars, but more than a few college coaches have told me they enjoyed watching them because they play very well as a team. Although quite a few were not interested in playing in college most were. And now they are picking up future college players who want to play with a good team. This is the opposite of the other team quoted by Zoro, who started off as a young strong team, and based on the number of early commits were from a relatively strong club. Correct me if I'm wrong. This team has quite a few players that could be strong college players that have had a very hard time getting any love, and those that did commit have done so quite recently, late in their junior years.
This seems related to me. Over at AWK, Chris Henderson reports that USC has 16 (16!) incoming players plus 15 returning starters. That is the kind of thing you have to find out as a parent of a potential recruit. Perhaps you're OK with that, as apparently 16 (16!) players and their families were. That is not something I would want my kid to have to contend with. I'll bet the coach told a lot of people, "You'll have to compete for a spot."
I'm not sure where you got the idea that USC is getting 16(16!) new players. They announce 18(18!!!) new players on June 8, 16 freshmen and two transfers, then followed up two weeks later that an additional 2(2!) transfers were being added to the squad. So, it's really 20(20!!!!) new players.
Heh you're right. I knew it was two different than Portland's roster, just assumed it was two less, I guess.
Happens a lot which is why small schools can get good quickly raiding these teams. It is also a test in human nature comfort and value for dollar for coaches. Soccer coaches do not have the budgets Football and Basketball do so it is much easier to recruit form the "big" clubs where they know the DOCS and trust their opinion. If you have a coach and/or DOC with no connections it makes the job harder. The whole if you are good they will find you is crap IMHO. That is why ECNL is popular for teh college coaches it is much easier to recruit and develop relationship with the clubs. I had a coach tell me point blank Florida is hard to recruit out of (if you are not a Florida school) because it is more of a team based state than club based and they cant call their goto guy to get a rundown on players.
I agree with all this but college coaches are finding out ECNL also stands for something like "every child needs a large scholarship" . The name brand has some value but everyone knows the bottom half of the ECNL is not better than what you can find the old-fashioned way - getting out and knocking on doors and watching kids. Not So Big Secret- Most College Coaches are Lazy! Using ECNL like ODP to recruit is EASIER and maybe safer but does not mean you're always getting better kids and spending your scholarship dollars more effectively. The college coaches that continue to 'break new ground' in recruiting by working hard and having a good eye for talent are the ones that are doing more with less.
Any Penn State commits rethinking now? Have to assume the new sanctions play a role. Less football revenue will hurt the non-revenue sports. Not to mention the image concern the school will have for years.
I read the documents. As part of the agreement, the ncaa has declared and Penn State has agreed that no other sports besides football will be impacted, either in scholarships or in funding for the life of the sanctions. The money is not to come from any academic programs either. This is actually the most secure women's soccer has ever been. The NCAA was very careful to make sure that only football and the athletic department itself were to suffer penalties.
How is this going to be paid for then? I assumed that they'd have to raise tuition etc. to make up for the lack of football revenue.
I'll answer my own question after looking around reports on this - apparently the athletic department has a large savings account which they can use to pay or against which they can borrow the $12 Million annual deposit into the endowment. This means that the academic departments and state tax payer monies won't be touched (as is required by the NCAA sanction) and women's soccer and all other sports should be relatively unaffected in the immediate future (also apparently required by the NCAA). I would suspect that a few years down the road athletic facilities that might otherwise have been renovated or built might not be, but it is unlikely to affect any current player's experience in a way that would make them want to transfer. (This is only my speculation of course)
The last time they had an football fund raising drive they raised $200 million in 3 months. Really, for Penn State, $60 million is not an issue, especially when they have to pay out only $12 million a year. They are one of the dozen or so football programs who actually made money last year, and it was reported at $56 million on $116 million in revenue. The President said they would borrow it if they had to. I suspect it will never come to that.
Maybe it is me but it is weird to hear that $60 million is a drop in the bucket. Plus, future revenue has to be impacted when only 50-60,000 people come to watch a second-tier team rather than 100,000. I spoke to a Penn State grad today and he is embarrassed of his alma mater. What kid would want to knowingly go a place where the athletic facilities were where crimes against innocent children took place? It will be interesting to track what happens with their 2013s and two 2014 commits and who decides to leave. And they just had a camp this past week. If they had top prospects there while the Paterno statue was being taken down and having campus invaded by news station vans that cannot help.
There is an article today on the Espn Network that outlines the issues with an explanation of PSU revenue streams. http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/796/true-costs-to-penn-state-unknown Note that even with the $13 million hit the big ten gave them, they will still get around $20 million from the conference, more than enough enough to cover the NCAA fine on its own. With the new TV deal, the big 10 is the richest conference in the Nation right now. And USC and Alabama showed relatively minor reductions in revenue when they served their suspensions. Besides, the penalty is supposed to hurt the athletic department a bit. That was the whole point. But it can't affect the soccer team according to the sanctions.
The PSU point is simple- If you're a 2013/14/15/16 player that has options, why deal with the mess there when you don't have to and could go elsewhere? You certainly were just given an excuse to change your commitment or decide not to even visit and you know their competition will use it against them. PSU may be a better place for soccer coming out of this dark cloud but it's going to be dark and ugly and relevant for a few years still. The freakin' AD and President are still going to have massive public trials and could go to jail! and wait for all the civil suits from the families... not a good situation for any in PSU athletics for awhile... Unfortunately PSU will forever be more synonymous with "Sanduski" and ugliness than "Paterno" and competitiveness for very many people around the country. Could we call this thread just Misc. now?
My information is mainly through a sport other than the women's soccer program. Even though I do follow them best as I can. The psychological devastation on campus is pretty overwhelming from what I have heard and of course most of the students are not there yet. The feeling is, is that with the ones that are around and on campus - it has hardened their commitment to the University.
Expect a couple more changes for 2013s soon. It is being discussed around Surf that Stanford will not get all of their kids in through admissions. Another reason to put an end to the early nonsense. Look for Amber Munerlyn to UNC as a possibility.