Dutch players at home and abroad worthy to be tracked in connection with the Dutch NT - Part 2

Well that's not good enough. If you want to discredit the source like you want to do on the rating component of the paper, I would like to hear what the problem is with their rating system. Go into it and come up with examples that make it likely for them not being credible. Also, you are aware Goal.com allows tops and flop votes by fans, so many fanboys from a certain country's start upvoting their guy? That is not favoritism? Yet you have no problem to post those results? Also your point is that the grades in Germany favor Raul, which basically discredit every German source I come up with. Kicker or Transfermarkt. That puts the burden of prove on you, to just claim they are all not to be trusted. Kicker backs up again my point:



Also I would like to remind you, that you actually only came up with that he was 40. Never mind he is 6 years younger, but that is not even a real performance argument to start off with. Looks to me, there is a whole lot statements and a whole less arguments to it. Better start to do it the other way around. This is the Dutch forum. You can find the people stating their opinion as fact in some of the south american forums.

Well the last game he was great and against Twente as well. He gets good overall rates and your original claim was that he has been injured most of the season. That's quite a statement if someone is soon to hit 2000 minutes for his club. But whatever.

The whole point that I wanted to make is that Schalke have looked at the striker they have and it's not as terrible as I thought it was. I watched the game and I thought, yeah, Fuchs this left winger, Farfan, Raul. It's not a bad team for Klaas. The idea is there and that's more than you can say from Milan, that was build totally anti Klaas. He can stay there from me. I think they are intended to continue to facilitate him with future buys and that is very important for a striker as Klaas.

That's the whole reason?

Well if that is the argument, then you will be in for a shock. Every Dutch top talent (and Ola being with the Dutch NT squad at Wembley is one) will go abroad and will have to learn another language. But as I said, it is as close as a top club he can go to from his residence. He would not even have to move if he doesn't want to.

I read that too on Bild website

Well this goes into the direction of what is going to happen. The direction I took was what I would not object from happening, benefiting Dutch NT. Guidetti is Swedish, so who cares.

Agree. He will stay another year.

Guidetti is very likely to move. There are more clubs into him and he has big ambitions.

Yes, so he has to move. He is still only 25, but now it's time to become an important player at a club a bit less big than Barca.

Yes, Schalke or even Liverpool. Every little bit of winger is better than Downing with a whopping 0 goals and 0 assist in 24 EPL games.

What's up with Dutch players and the DM position I don't know, but we keep pouring them out like it's nothing. This revival and comeback of Ajax taken by the hand of Anita deserves him to be mentioned together with Clasie to turn the heat on Strootman. Is Vertongen stepping up himself or since Anita is in DM? I will leave that question to the Ajax fans who watch all the games of Ajax and are closer on it.

At this moment, I don't know who of the three is best, though I like Clasie. All 3 are also still young. Then we also have Maher who plays controlling midfield at AZ. Maher is not going to get the 10 position. No way. Sneijder, VDV, Afellay now Urby also in the mix. So that is another player for DM for now. I hope Vilhena gets Bakkal spot at Feyenoord already THIS year. Guy is also tearing it up for U 17. John is getting slack, but who saw that delicious cross on Chadli against ADO? I don't understand people don't mention that. Chadli just heads it like it is beneath him to use his head and not his feat. That was just a first class ball.

Though Sneijder and Robben class are not there imo, talent perspective is a bit better since last year and more recently other posters started to complain about. Also as we will get an armada of the sole goal scoring type of players (Huntelaar, Dost (did I hear Valencia are into him?), Wolf, Castagnos, Luuk de Jong (providing a bit more)) Ola John could be of great value with his crossing technique enabling them to do what they are (only) good at. I am excited to see what Ola can do for Huntelaar.

This is Anita's natural position but he's been forced to play both left and right fullback because of injuries during the past two years. I think he has a great awareness of the field and is much better on the ball than Strootman (as is Clasie). The only problem is that he's basically the same size as Clasie. From what I've seen, Clasie is a little better at distributing the ball than Anita but Anita is a better defender.

No he's not. They would be lost without VDV and Bale, but they can cope without Modric. Modric doesn't bring in their goals (he has an abysmal record concerning goals and assists), the other 2 do.

Had it not been for VDV's goal against Stoke they would've been going further down in their slump, a slump that happened during VDV's absence. Same reason why they were also out of Europe so soon because VDV wasn't registered.

And I really think Parker is their most important midfield player if we consider VDV and Bale as forwards.

Do I have to remind you that VDV was nominated for PL player of the year last season and has won the player of the month award, both things Modric hasn't in all his years in England..?

yeah, I gave up when he said that. no use

I just shake my head at this argument.

I only watched the second half of the match, and I was extremely pleased with how Anita played. He certainly has a high motor.. constantly running, chasing the ball and closing down opponents. I do agree that he doesn't offer a whole lot in build up (and offense, in general). In that regard like Strootman who seemed to be more active in attack (well, he should have because his team was falling behind), but to me Kevin wasn't aggressive enough in defending and got exposed a few times. If we fuse Strootman and Anita together, hey, we've a nice solution for a DM position.

I haven't watched a whole lot of Clasie lately, so I am gonna save myself from embarrassment.

So far nr 4 in this election





So far nr 4 in this election


Clasie is doing well. The thing I like about Clasie and Feyenoord is that they win from the big boys (with 4 green most of all):


Feyenoord:

1. Heerenveen
2. AZ
3. Ajax
4. PSV
5. FC Twente
6. Ajax
7. PSV
8. FC Twente

AZ:

1. PSV
2. FC Twente
3. Feyenoord
4. Ajax
5. Heerenveen
6. Ajax
7. Heerenveen

Ajax:

1. Heerenveen
2. PSV
3. FC Twente
4. Feyenoord
5. AZ
6. AZ
7. Feyenoord
8. PSV

PSV:

1. AZ
2. Ajax
3. FC Twente
4. Feyenoord
5. Heerenveen
6. Feyenoord
7. FC Twente
8. Heerenveen
9. Ajax

FC Twente:

1. AZ
2. Heerenveen
3. Ajax
4. PSV
5. Feyenoord
6. PSV
7. Feyenoord

• The draw in the Arena was for Feyenoord IMO
• The loss against AZ had a lot to do with a red card, not even sure it was one and up until the red card I think Feyenoord was stronger. Very close game.
• The loss against PSV again, not outplayed. It was a smart push on Martens Indi that normally is a free kick that gave the 3-2 and Toivonen admitted after the game it was a character win, not quality. Mertens was so over the moon that he called it the champions game. LOL.

Feyenoord has displayed weakness against the little guys. Clasie has had a very constant season only failing probably against Groningen, Go Ahead and VVV. My point is a lot of this strength agaist top competition has to do with Clasie. Agressive, footballs forward, excellent distribution and vision, high handling speed.

What is a fact is the general fitness difference between Anita and Clasie. All Clasie's talent is build on the wrong chassis IMO. That's something very different than me calling him small, an argument I get very tired of. He has no athletic build IMO. That one goes to Anita who looks healthier and fitter. Both players have probably a higher handling speed than Strootman. I also think Clasie can give that split pass better than Strootman and Anita. Maybe Strootman is a bit better pushing up, but that is under development with Clasie. He scored recently and have now see him dribble past players as well to shoot on goal. Koeman said: "If he now also starts to see when he has to enclose ...". Both players are very much in development still and Strootman goes through his fallback period. Clasie will get that one also probably in the next future.

very short video on the discussion (before Anita really came on the scene for DM):


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WS4q6hCQQ"]Strootman vs Clasie - YouTube[/ame]

Does anyone have a link for live streams of the U-17 games going on right now? My normal link hasn't been broadcasting them

Rekik having a nice first game at left back

Under 17 qualifies for Euro

Link


Vilhena being boss again.

Juventus offer Elia to Schalke 04 and Wolfsburg:

Elia offered

hope he goes to Schalke

If van Rhijn nullifies Assaidi and Ola John, like he did with Mertens, should we have this this conversation?

VS







?

I have one problem with Boula. He can't play football. If he crosses I am always afraid as an animal friend that he will shoot a bird out of the sky. Also answer this question if Boula is injured, which is very possible with him. Go for van Rhijn or do you pick someone else?

For me it's an untested higher caliber player vs a older more experienced but quality wise lower player.

Tough question. Bert will not gamble probably, but what do you do?

I agree with you that Bert won't gamble with it now... (at least for the EC2012). However, i would personally rather have Boula. He may not be a true footballer, but he is strong, consistent and more experienced. he is almost like Pieters in that respect. We all know that our strongest point isn't defense which is why consistency is probably our best bet.

The more i watch VDV at Tottenham, the more i'm starting to think that we should play VDV right behind RVP/Huntelaar and Sneijder next to De Jong/Van Bommel.

-VDV is a bit stronger and i think he may even have a slightly better shot(Sneijder definitely has better passing)
-VDV might actually be able to win headers
-Sneijder usually has to drop further back anyway so why not start him back further and let him run up when necessary (opposite of what he normally does)
-Lets Sneijder use his excellent passing with RVP/Huntelaar, Robben, VDV and Afellay(hopefully) running in front of him.
-Also utilizes two phenomenal players at one time.
-Increases the total footballing ability of the team
-Team becomes more attacking

Also, i just want to point out how lucky we are to be in the situation we are in with goalies right now. Vorm and Krul are doing great and Stekelenburg is awesome as well.

However, i definitely think we should keep with Stekelenburg as our first choice. Vorm might be a great goalie and can make very consistent saves, however, i just don't think he can make the truly amazing saves like Stekelenburg. Like this example..

-I think Vorm might have been able to save the goal in the WC2010 final against Spain. However, i don't think he would have been able to make the save against Brazil like Stekelenburg did against Kaka...

What do you guys think?

Stek also looked dodgy against England with the first goal, but before that he was pretty good. He is good. That's it. Not World class. Another keeper would have saved the WC final goal, but then again as you say he saved us on the Kaka shot. Balls close to his boddy, he is not so good. He could maybe also do better on the Forlan goal. That was deflected though. Vorm is a monster on penalty's. If we get in one of those I would seriously consider Vorm in the goal with the final sub.

I would like Sneijder plus de Jong on midfield. But with Sneijder you don't need a player in front of you who wants the ball in the feet. You need someone with speed. A shutler. Afellay is the man for that spot IMO. I would like to have the most deadly counter in the Euro. We have the material for that. RVP is best player in the world to synchronize with the player with the ball making a rush from a counter. Making really smart runs. Sneijder is the best in the world in the transition from not having the ball-to having it-to see the opening for the counter-to give a perfect delivery. We also have Robben. We have the material, so I would utilize it.

I'd rather be the team that doesn't need to rely on counterattacks to score goals/win

Krul is our best goalkeeper by quite some distance if you ask me. As for Van der Vaart, he has no place in the Holland squad unless Sneijder is dropped.

Certainly the case can be made for Krul but BvM is not about to switch horses in midstream and I don't think Krul is that much better.

With Nigel and Sneijder on midfield there is plenty possession. Also better build up, so it won't be a "counter team". However you have to look at your players. We have something very special, if played in a certain setup. You will have many turnovers in every game and they provide a good opportunity to score from.

However, playing "counter football" like you are talking also implies that the other team will have a fair share if not more possession then us. Which therefore means more pressure on our defenders. We all know defending is by far our weakest point of our team. However, if we play more possession, there is less of a strain on our defense. With the amount of quality circling the opposition's box we would score a lot of goals...

You guys should have seen today's game. He was pretty bad. I would not want that in my NT goal standing. Stek also let in a soft goal this weekend. So ....

I think I prefer 1 World Class keeper (van der Sar) than just 3 good ones. Sar was never injured and we could always depend on him.

Looking at age, Krul needs to develop and could maybe become World Class. I hope he does, but he is far from that still.

If you look at what van Marwijk has done different looking at the Sweden and Germany game and then the England game is playing very compact. That's why you actually see Englishmen being quite content and amazed they could handle Holland with a very young team. It was a team tactic to go back to basic. Oke well if that is how it's going to be (and it is the way it will go, just like on the WC) then we better use that compact formation to our advantage with certain brakes. Those can be executed far better with Afellay on 10 than VDV. I already see a Swiss game happening again where we see Sneijder and VDV constantly on midfield making no real impact. If we are going for compact, we better use what we have to benefit from it.

Also VDV and RVP does not work. Sneijder and RVP does not work either. Afellay and RVP works excellent as it is an Arsenal setup with a roaming nr 10, RVP has used to calibrate with that now for years.

Another team mixing counters with possession very deadly is Germany by the way.