This is actually the third time I've started to write something on this thread - the first two times I was so angry I didn't post it, as I don't think you should write something permanent when you are that upset. The delay helped me keep my head, but it seems like MR posted the relevant points already. Still, in the interests of beating a dead horse... 1 - the fall looks odd, no question. However, please remember that most people can't control their actions after they are hit in the head. Unconscious/semiconscious people sometimes look pretty strange. Because of what we see on TV, we think we know what people will look like when struck a certain way, but no one can really predict that. An athlete who "takes a dive" (such as a fall for a PK in soccer, flops for a charge/offensive foul in basketball or drops down after a high fastball in baseball) is exhibiting a deliberate action with the intention to deceive the viewer, to make them think they saw something that they didn't. Fortunately, we see very few truly serious injuries in sports, but when we do, they really don't look like all those spectacular flops. The serious injuries actually look fake/unreal compared to what we expect to see. As a terrible example, watch the video of Fabrice Muamba, who suffered a cardiac arrest during a game, and was very fortunate to survive (most likely because Andrew Deaner - cardiac electrophysiologist at London Chest Hospital - was watching the game from the first few rows and directed his resuscitation). It looks likes the most unremarkable flop - people would have said bad acting if it was after a challenge, but in fact, he essentially died. 2 - The precise nature of the contact can't be seen from the available camera angles (yet), but, as MR points out what does he have to gain? A player can get an opponent booked/sent off or a foul called, but as far as the Laws of the Game and the referee are concerned, all he has to do is say it happened, and it happened. The referee here has 10 years of experience, including 7 in the Bundesliga (if I read the DFB Scheidsrichter page correctly). He could only get there (especially in Germany!) by being solid, reliable, consistent, dependable and honest. Now, people suggest that he will throw that all away to "take a dive"? Can anyone here imaging a national federation or professional league being willing to use a referee who theatrically dropped when a player came near him? What has been suggested by some (here and elsewhere) is both laughable and sickening. Laughable because those who suggest it are active out of a deep ignorance of how things work outside their heads (pshrinks call it projection - "I cheat, so he must be cheating"), and sickening because it places club loyalty over understanding and acknowledging right and wrong.
I forgot to mention required police presence at these Hispanic league games. So I didn't even worry about safety. Lots of issues in the past regarding gang affiliation, nationality, and the usual bullshit between ethnic groups.
Saw this in the Benfica forum and thought it was slightly amusing. First Pic: What normal people saw Second Pic: What Sporting Lisbon and FC Porto fans saw...
This is a tough one. Let's look at the two incidences separately. The original call: Sorry, but I don't see a foul there. The defender clearly plays that ball and there is a subsequent collision. I see nothing reckless. The second incident: Regardless of the merits of the first call, nothing justifies assaulting an official. Sadly, I've watched this video numerous times. I cannot determine the impetus of the fall. As such, I do not think there is enough on the video to punish anyone. Best video I've found As a result, the report is everything. Whatever the official put in his report should be respected and treated as the truth. Any punishment should be based upon this report. That being said, there is something else that bothers me about this video and it bothers me greatly. At:06 of the original video, a player (improperly) approaches to CR. But it looks to me that the CR actually shoves him. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it. If true, that should never be permitted and the CR should be suspended if he shoved the player. Very very odd situation.
MOD EDIT: Wahoos1 accidentally started a new thread. His post is below, because this has fuller video, including an enhanced version at the end that shows the contact. Luciao might just miss a game or two. Glad the refs abandoned the game. Never like being defenseless, especially to a cheap sucker shot.
Right at the end, that video is pretty conclusive against #4. UEFA or someone really needs to step in here if the Portuguese Federation isn't doing anything about it.
Well it is clear from the Benfica boys that they are so used to their players going down from a gust of wind that they assume everyone else goes down so easily. And since one of the drama queens assumed an issue of manhood I guess it is not to distant to suggest their players, who roll around in agony after a collision with a butterfly, need to play in the transgender league? And before you Benfica boys get all worked up, it is a TIC post. You come and attack/troll/flame and then before you got to this part I bet you were ALL worked up from what I said... because the refs are usually only defended by a small piece of colored plastic and are supposed to take it "like a man" while the players whine and cry like babies, gesticulate like auctioneers, etc. But hey, fair is fair. How often do you see refs acting that way on the pitch? I know I see it in game after game after game. TV. Live. Youth. What would you think if the refs acted like the players/coaches etc on that pitch. Look in the mirror Benfica.
Now that video shows plenty of contact. The Portuguese federation is looking dumber by every minute that ticks by. Luisao should have his ass suspended so fast or else we'll be reading about Pedro Proenca or Olegario Benquerenca getting love taps or headbutts during games. All they are doing is enabling Luisao and by proxy condoning his behavior.
Here is the clip of Pinto's supposed punch of Angel Sanchez. I believe there was some contact by Pinto, but where is the punch? What I find more incredible about Pinto's reaction isn't so much that he is against the red card, it's the fact that he doesn't even believe a foul should have been shown. Look at his reaction, he hears the refs whistle and he is stunned that a foul was called and then he blows up after seeing the red. That's one of the worst tackles I have ever seen. How Park was able to walk again is a miracle.
Not sure if serious about the tackle. The EPL has "worse" tackles every weekend. Pinto was a freaking hot head and never played another game for the nt ever gain.
Oh my goodness well Portuguese posters there is no denying the referee was head butted. This should result in a serious ban. If I was in the disciplinary committee at UEFA, he deserves a year suspension. You will never find a video that shows the action, because the television cameras were all in close to the action. I have no doubt that Angel Sanchez was punched by Joao Pinto. In all candor Pinto got off easy. The scissors tackle Pinto unleashed could have easily broken the Korean players leg. I am still amazed he got up. FIFA initially ruled a six month ban, but cut it to four months which meant that because of the world cup, he only served a two month suspension. That is a travesty.
You got your wish, what do you have to say now? Still feel the referee was faking it? Do you have any understanding of cause and effect? There seems to be a major disconnect in Portuguese footballing with this concept. The referee is going to jeopardize his career to make a fool out of Luisao by taking a dive and feigning he was unconscious? What kind of sick mind thinks along those lines? You really think a referee is going to jeopardize his career refereeing and possibly his work career for a stunt like that. Imagine going back to work say as a a lawyer, accountant, or engineer after faking being hit by a player. How could anyone trust you after that hmmmm? Right I didn't think so, yet this appears to be a common trait in your footballing culture. Our players done wrong. Injustice and cheating by the referee or our opponent, but if that is the case why all the cheating, diving, misconduct and so forth by your players? I'm expecting more rationalization. I really believe it's a national trait with respect to football for Portuguese players, coaches and fans to temporarily lose their minds and be incapable of an honest appraisal of misconduct and totally inappropriate behavior. Time after time we have seen incidents that in my opinion would not be condoned by rational thinking people. Cause and effect, I don't like the referee's decision so I grab the yellow card out of his hand. Then I am shocked, dismayed and in tears when he sends me off after retrieving his card. Cause and effect, I scissor tackle an opponent in the world cup. Luckily I don't break his leg, but I am so shocked that I confront the referee when he sends me off and in the scrum of players I sneak in a punch to his stomach. The referee is no flunky, he is Angel Sanchez the top referee in Argentina who refereed the Argentina Primera Division para 20 years. Where does the sense of entitlement to break the laws of the game, cheat and rationalize inappropriate behavior come from?
No way in hell would a ref, especially in UEFA, fake something like that. They have an extremely high standard and faking this would pretty guarantee Fischer would lose his job as a top flight ref. his credibility would so thrown out of the window that no respectable federation would tolerate his act. They had some other ref a few years back with match fixing scandal and no way would the DFB put up with any disreputable acts by their refs. Benfica and the Portuguese federation have eggs all over their faces. What a joke.
What are you talking about? I'm not a Benfica fan and could care less about Luisao who is Brazilian. I never said the ref is faking it either. Your biased opinion of all Portuguese people is clouding your judgement on this matter. A ref can't go into a match with clear premedatated judgement on a certain ethnic group like you have. This might lead to favoritism. All Portuguese players who have behaved I appropriately at international level have been dealt with by FIFA/uefa/fpf. We will see how this case plays out. And once again I will tell you that I don't think the ref faked it and I think Luisao needs to pay for this assault wether he meant it or not, still happened.
It's soccer, slide tackles happen all the time. A normal Paul Scholes tackle is easily worse than Joao Pinto's brainless tackle. The EPL has these types of hard tackles on a weekly basis and Park is stil alive.... Pinto did punch the ref which he admitted and was suspended. He broke the rules and paid for it. The suspension was the least of his worries since he never represented Portugal again as a player.
To be fair, I distinctly remember saying that I felt Pinto's tackle was one of the worst on-the-ball fouls, under the pretext of actually tackling, that I'd ever seen at the international level up to that point. So register me in that camp. But I really hope we're not going to re-litigate the merits of a single tackle from 10 years ago. I only raised the issue because of what happened after the tackle and how it fits into a pattern of behavior.
Yeah that's your typical EPL tackle right Vic? just in case you forgot Just a little more force and Pinto snaps Park's Fib and Tib. That is certain. Thanks for proving a point. You downplayed the severity of Pinto's tackle. Rationalized it as no more than any slide tackle in the EPL on a Saturday or Sunday. You still hold that opinion after viewing this video? It was purposely done to hurt and injure the opponent.
A convo between Portuguese and everyone else on any "controversial play" Portuguese: that was a totally clean and legal tackle. This tackle is the norm in an EPL game. We got robbed. Everyone else: are you kidding me? That was one of the most disgusting tackles in the history of football. Portuguese: Paul Scholes and Roy Keane do this every game. I don't see that tackle as a red. Everyone else: quit being such a moronic homer. Portuguese: that ref speaks Spanish so he probably had it against us and didn't want us to win. I wish all the racist pigs would respect Portugal. You are probably a racist too. Everyone else: any more excuses you can use? Portuguese: our players have to resort to this gamesmanship because everyone is racist against Portuguese and this happens in the EPL. Let's go after the EPL for this. We know why they won't because they are racist too.
Yes, typical EPL red card tackle. The Pinto tackle didn't even make it to any top 5 or top 10 worse tackles list or even the 2002 worst tackle list so I'm not sure what the big deal is. Pinto had a horrible tackle. It happens. He didn't intend to murder anyone, just went all in and took out Park. Sure, Park could of died, broken bones, bled to death, cardiac arrest but thankfully he didn't and has played many years after that "career ending" tackle. Am I saying that Pinto was right to make that tackle, no, only a moron would somehow think this from any of my Pinto tackle posts. So once again, the Pinto tackle was horrible, but we've all seen worse.
That's Alberto, not Humberto and tell me what I cited in my post that was made up or a lie. Perhaps if Portuguese players acted more rationally, I wouldn't have to point out so many clear examples of poor behavior on the field of play. Don't worry about being singled out, Holland is doing an exemplary job of acting like thugs over the past two world cups. It would be Xenophobic if I hated Portuguese people. I don't. My issue is with the behavior during football matches. I have experienced it in person refereeing and coaching Portuguese teams and by watching European soccer and World Cup. Portugal never had these problems 20 years ago. It seems to be something that cropped up less than 20 years ago and frankly has been consistently poor. It has not improved. One last thing, you still believe the referee as you call it wussed out and dove or do you believe he was headbutted and was knocked unconscious?
Did you watch WC 2006? Euro 2008? WC 2010? Euro 2012? Were there any assaults on refs by the Portuguese? Can you tell me of recent problems by Portuguese players? Luisao is not Portuguese btw. I'm glad you were able to watch Portugal 20 years ago at a major tournament because I don't recall Portugal at WC 90, euro 92 and wc94. Maybe I just missed it or you are making stuff up. It's too bad you have had a tough ref experience while you were a ref in Portugal where Portuguese teams play. I hope you at least enjoyed the nightlife and the beaches.
Your opinions aren't going to find much support here. It has nothing to do with xenophobia and everything to do with your verbal attacks against an assaulted referee. What motivation does the referee have to flop? Contrary to popular belief, the only agenda referees have is maintaining safety and applying the laws of the game in the fairest way possible.
May I suggest that, considering we now have conclusive video, this thread be closed as little more can be gained here. Well, at least until punishment is handed down; then we can debate its length I'm sure.