Off topic... No. It is not exactly the same. I would argue that it is not even close. The women who won the World Cup for the US performed at the highest level for their sport. If you are a woman soccer player, that is the pinnacle of your sport. End of story. You are the world champions. The men from Ghana who won the U20 won a youth tournament. A tournament full of talented but not-yet-fully-formed players. It's impressive, no doubt, and I would love it if our U20 men brought home that trophy. But it's a tournament of players who are still growing.
in response to the bold, no. no they did not. they did not perform at the highest level of soccer. they performed at the highest level of women's soccer. they are exactly the same, in that the competitions eliminated the best competitors, ie the full mens rosters globally. i think our women did fantastic, but they didn't beat the best in the world. the best in the world we're not allowed to compete against them. they performed at the highest level within their protected group. i'd bet a good sum of money there are women out there who would win their roster spots decisively if we had gender integrated international competition, but there is just no getting around the fact that when we compare the full population of women vs the full population of men, by and large men are bigger, stronger and faster. like i said i'm sure there are women with enough skill to overcome this, as we have smaller men who excel in the game, but i think they'd be exceptions, not approaching the 50% representation on national rosters their percentage of the population would statistically predict if they were equal competitors. any competition that eliminates the best competitors by default, is not going to carry the same weight, public interest or perceived level of accomplishment. the women's cup is entertaining, and has a mass following, it's just is not on the same level.
Donovan can play about nine different positions/roles, with different degrees of success, although he's good or above in all of them. RM, SS, RF = excellent CAM playmaker, LF, CF = very good RW, LM = good LW, CM B2B = fine Now the question is, can he improve his work on the left midfield to bring it up to very good or excellent standards?
i think donovan's retirement from international competition will have to do more with mental fatigue than physical capabilities or where he could be slotted in.
No, it's not. Do you discount women Olympic medals as well? They're not the fastest runners in the world when compared to the men, but that doesn't mean that you can look at a collegiate championship and say that "Oh, that's the same thing because the times are comparable". The sports are segregated by gender. If that was not the case, then perhaps you would have a case, but as it stands, your position is absolutely ludicrous. On the flip side...
i can see your point on the age restricted competition, so i'll say its in the same realm, and not exactly the same. long story short, it seems the overwhelming majority of the worlds population doesn't put a women's world cup win even remotely close to that of a men's world cup win, and i agree. as for the olympics, in general, yes i feel the same. my interest in individual olympic events generally gravitate towards the mens trials, with some exceptions like gymnastics where i watch both, but favor the female competition. as a side note, i appreciate the exchange of perspective without anyone taking the incorrect and easy pot shot of calling me sexist.
Regardless of if the "overwhelming majority of the worlds population" properly thinks before answering a question, it matters not in some observer's opinion if two things are "remotely close" as a comparison. Things are being compared and the USWNT has won 2 World Cups. Believing that the women's title is not "remotely close" to the men's title or classification does not mean that the women's classification or achievement is meaningless or does not exist. Of course the USMNT is still seeking their first World Cup title, and it would be excellent if Landon Donovan could help his team achieve it.
i think its a pretty subjective situation we are discussing, so the popular perspective is very much valid, and i think the answer would remain the same regardless of how much thought the polled unwashed masses give it. first and very importantly, i never said the women's achievement is meaningless. i actually said it was fantastic. what i did say, is there is a difference between the World Cup, and the Women's World Cup. if LD helps the US to win the World Cup in brazil, i give you my word i will from that day forward and forever more say it is our 3rd world cup win
Fair enough. Both exist. And one of the (significant) differences between the two events is that the US has none of one and two of the other titles. That's the broader point. (Not that this subforum is the place to recognize that broader point, but it certainly could be.) Ok. 3 - 1 = 2. Brazil or Russia. Since, and per this thread, I certainly think LD could be at both.
This would be great news for the USMNT as that is likely where he will pay for the Nats with Zusi on the right. I have no issues with moving Fabian to LB and would prefer it.
Yes, but JK prefers Fabian in the midfield. I think LD is a good option on the left vs. Portugal to put Bedoya at RW (because of his defensive presence vs. CR7) but Zusi has had a rough go at times at RW especially defensively. I think vs. Germany and Ghana you'll see LD at RW
Well, unfortunately for you and the ladies they do need FIFA's permission. And they don't have it: http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/worldcup/index.html Nope. http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/worldcup/index.html
FIFA, in fact, does list the USA WNT having won 2 World Cups. http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/womensworldcup/index.html Quite interesting phrasing in that 1995 summary:
I don't put a women's WC on the same plane as a men's WC, sure. I just put it way above a U-20 youth tournament made up of both professional and semi-professional athletes. That's mostly what I took issue with.
Maybe you should try to update FIFA's website or what they list as World Cups. What you are "concerned" with isn't aligned with the full reality on this issue. Perhaps you could consider it a little farther until you see the reality. Or, who has more World Cup appearances currently, Kristine Lilly or Landon Donovan? (Please take your time in considering the question.)
Using "soccer world cup" as a shorthand for "men's soccer world cup" is indeed sexist. If you were writing a paper, it'd be sloppy writing and would cost you marks. USA has won two FIFA women's world cups. No FIFA men's world cups so far, though. Everything else is a footnote.
Does Landon have 2 more World Cups in him? He doesn't think so. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/donova...96961875-268c5f76-75c0-42b5-bfc8-2db47e205b4a
What I'm "concerned" with honestly doesn't matter in reality. The fact is, that the FIFA World Cup ™ and the FIFA Women's World Cup ™ are not the same thing. It's simply a fact. If you're asking who has more FIFA World Cup ™ appearances it is Landon Donovan. Kristine Lilly and I share the same number of World Cup appearances. Zero. From FIFA's website: "The 19th FIFA World Cup ended with a first triumph for Spain but the host nation had equal reason to celebrate. FIFA.com reviews South Africa 2010." http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/worldcup/index.html 1. 1930 2. 1934 3. 1938 4. 1950 5. 1954 6. 1958 7. 1962 8. 1966 9. 1970 10. 1974 11. 1978 12. 1982 13. 1986 14. 1990 15. 1994 16. 1998 17. 2002 18. 2006 19. 2010
Yes, exactly. Right. They are both World Cups. That's what they have in common. Players playing in either of them are playing in a World Cup. No. She has five more than you.
No, the person who is making up "their own" definitions/rules as to what they "consider" or are "concerned with" -- it is you. My response was here: https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...orld-cups-in-him.1999910/page-5#post-29581056 The link to FIFA's website on which they describe the WWC as an event with "the World Cup itself" on the line. FIFA does not agree with you here.
Sure. He says that now. (Although, we should respect what he says on some level. Not that he couldn't be saying something different in 3 years or so.)