$25,000 bond you risk losing at the end for not winning your challenges? meh, ok, makes the process more serious. tacking on an extra game suspension for losing the appeal? that is complete and utter bullshit. so, you have set it up so that teams will actually use this option seriously and not just wildly appeal every red card handed to them. but you are going to actively punish the player beyond what the rules state is the proper punishment because a team loses the appeal? what in the ********ing hell? this league never ceases to amaze me. they take what should be a straight forward process and twist it into some kind of extreme torture for teams. in any case RSL wasnt going to appeal it, not with their next game tomorrow in dallas. it's just easier for them to rest olave and play his more than capable backup, chris schuler. given the timing, i'm not even sure the DisCo would have been able to handle the review to get olave back in time for the dallas game anyways. plus it looks like RSL caught a break with perez getting handed a suspension.
Agreed that this is ridiculous if it's really the rule. Why tack on an extra game suspension just because an appeal is overruled? I'd like to see the Appeals process documented somewhere on the MLS site, though, to confirm this aspect of it. It seems so ridiculous to me that I wonder if Ives got it wrong....
Can the league/MLSDC review a red on their own or *must* the team appeal it to have it overturned? Frankly, there is no way Olave's red was the correct call. Lenhart reaches with his left arm across Olave, grabs Olave's shorts on the outside of the left leg, and then as he falls he pulls Olave down with him. Lenhart *might* (or not) gone down on his own but he *definitely* committed the foul that got another player sent off. Is it really that hard for MLS to review red cards - we all can manage to do it a few seconds after a game. But... this is no different than have Borchers sent off last year after Feilhaber fell down when Borchers cleared the ball off his chest/face (but didn't otherwise touch Feilhaber). They didn't take a BS red card way then, they won't this time either. MLSDC has opened this can of post-game reviews but they are so selective about when/what they review that it's absurd - if you they aren't consistent in applying the review process it does more harm than good. It also defeats the purpose of the *deterent* for correcting the behavior in players if it is a remote chance any punishment will come of it.
A number of us in the referee forum (myself included) have argued that it WAS the right call (that Olave shoulder charged Lenhart before Lenhart grabbed Olave). This alone tells us that there is no consensus, and that an appeal probably wouldn't be overturned due to the ambiguity of the incident. This is not a call that everyone agrees on.
Lenhart broke to the goal on a gallop with Olave some contact, fall, his time's up! Lenhart grabbed his shorts! , RSL fans retort Still Kreis doesn't put up so STFU
This sums it up quite well. I'm absolutely astonished at the number of people saying that this is the "worst call this week" all around the interwebz. It was not clear cut. If it is clear, the DC will vote 5/5 to review the incident and slap a fine on Lenhart. I will eat hat salad if that happens. There's no way 5/5 people see that as a foul/simulation on Lenhart. It's simply too controversial (aka there are people arguing on both sides)
Yep, it's clearly not a slam dunk. I've watched it multiple times from various angles. At about the same time Lenhart grabs Olave's shorts, you can see Lenhart's upper body lurch forward from what appears to be a bump from the back. It's hard to tell what comes first - the bump or the shorts grab. Then if you watch Lenhart's last step before falling, it looks like he throws it out leftwards to make contact with Olave and ensure that he goes down. So at the end there I think Lenhart bought the foul but what happened before that may have been a foul on Olave, depending on the sequence of the bump and the shorts tug and exactly what happened there. Regardless, it was a pretty brazen challenge by Olave. You're really taking a chance coming in that tight on a breakaway / clear goal-scoring opportunity.
Today's headlines; BS posters come to understand not every decision is clear cut. BS posters come to understand video evidence is often not conclusive.
I see about the same as you except for this part. I see Olave taking a fairly straight line parallel to Lenhart. Then Lenhart moves left to try to block off Olave. I see Lenhart initiating the contact. When I first watched in real time I immediately thought a clear cut foul on Olave for denying a goal scoring opportunity. Then I watched the replays in slo-mo and I was convinced that it was a cynical dive/simulation by Lenhart to get Olave red carded. Then, a day later I watched the slo-mo again and I lost my certitude on Lenhart's motive. I think it is very possible Lenhart was just trying to block off Olave and made a hash of it. My current conclusion is foul on Lenhart, no cards for anyone. Having said that I think the referree made rational decisions based on what he and the AR could see. I would not act if I were on the DisCo.
I really don't think so. I lean towards Olave leaning in with his shoulder creating the contact. Its still pretty inconclusive.
I have an issue with this one. Not the suspension itself - I'm perfectly OK with MLS trying to cut this kind of thing out of the game, whether Perez intended to hit Harvey or not - but the timing of it. In essence, FC Dallas are being punished for the referee and linesman's failure to do their job. Were this suspension being handed out yesterday prior to a game this weekend, Dallas would have plenty of time to figure out who would play in Perez' place, and have several training sessions to get that player ready. Instead, they have now been given less than a day to adjust and prepare for the game against RSL. Interestingly, RSL themselves will be without players too, but because the referee in their game correctly caught those red cards, they have had adequate time to adjust. To me, if the DisCo are going to take 3 days after the incident to make the decision to suspend, the suspension should begin an equal amount of time after the decision - in other words, Perez' suspension should be for the LA game, not the RSL game. I'd also be interested to know what, if any, action has been taken against the officiating crew. The linesman in particular was about 5 feet from the play and looking directly at it, yet failed to even signal a foul. It's one thing to miss something that is a distance away and is either off the ball or obstructed in some way, but there's really no excuse here.
The DC decides if the incident is being reviewed on Sunday nights. So in other words, Dallas was informed that Perez might not be available for the RSL game Monday morning.
But they don't know either way for sure - they still do not have the same level of preparation for the game as the team whose referee made correct decisions does.
perez imo should not be suspended. he leads with the elbow but pulls up before contact. it's a foul, but by the time he touches harvey there's nothing violent in it. harvey does a ridiculous fall, although tbf he doesn't milk it for and injury (if that had been a real elbow he'd have felt it). maybe the dc wants to say that it's not ok even to think about elbowing...
Well, this is going to be an extremely unpopular position. The contact looked pretty significant. I disagree. A good coach prepares for the worst. If I was coaching FC Dallas, I would have prepared for the game without Perez. If he was available, then great. Otherwise, I'm prepared. Its a disadvantage, but not a significant one IMO.
Lenhart's movement to the left is because he is following the path of the ball, and breaking news, players are allowed to shield other players from balls within playing distance. How many times do we see defenders screening forwards off of balls rolling toward the end line? And forwards getting whistled for a foul in their attempts to get to the ball? Happens all the time. Lenhart had position on Olave, and Olave did run into him. You can argue whether Lenhart grabbed first or Olave bumped first, (it looks nearly simultaneous to me), but, there was contact, and in that situation it you will get a call 99 out of 100 times.
yeah, you're pbl right. looked at again, there's more there than i thought. don't think it's as bad as the harris elbow and personally i still wouldn't have suspended perez, but i see your point.
Watch this video at 1:08 and it's extremely clear who initiated contact. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb96pQlJAUU&feature=player_embedded"]Red Cards abound for Real Salt Lake and the Philadelphia Union - Instant Replay - YouTube[/ame]
What I see is Lenhart trying to insert himself in front of Olave where there is no room to do so. Lenhart is the one coming in from the side and throwing himself into Olave and creating the contact. There is no shielding involved.
That's the way i see it as well. They are struggling for front position on the ball. Olave has his right arm in between Lenhart's body and left arm, and Lenhart has his arm wrapping around Olave (and eventually grabs his shorts). But Lenhart's torso is just in front of Olave's, and you can see his torso lunge forward a bit when contact is made - just before their legs tangle and they both go down.