Post-match: DCU @ Houston 7/15/2012

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by NattyBo, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. The Cold Sea

    The Cold Sea Señor Mejor

    Feb 17, 2005
    The District
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Willis is better. He doesn't panic. Hamid panicked. What ever happened to scouting reports or knowing your opponent in general. Khandji has a terrible strike rate. No need for Hamid to come out so fast and go down so early. Khandji has scored six goals in three years, chances are he'd found a way to ******** that up.
     
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  2. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    I remember a brief mention that Dudar was away for a family emergency. Is he expected to be back by the Columbus game?
     
  3. The Cold Sea

    The Cold Sea Señor Mejor

    Feb 17, 2005
    The District
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I hope so. There's no way Jakovic is better than him or deserves to start.
     
  4. Cweedchop

    Cweedchop Member+

    Mar 6, 2000
    Ellicott City, Md
    I'm still ambiguous on who's better.

    The numbers don't flatter Willis at the moment (18 goals allowed in 10 games as opposed to 8 goals in 9 matches (10 matches if you count the 18 minutes last night)

    The eyeball test still tells me that Hamid is the better option. Let's be honest, this was the first real boneheaded play we've seen from Bill this season. He's been pretty damn solid and has started to add some really good saves into the mix.

    We'll be okay with Willis, but I don't think I would rate him above Hamid based on the # of goals allowed at this point.

    They are what they are..
     
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  5. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Never said it wasn't, and not arguing it. Just saying there is plenty of precedent for a yellow. I have no problem with the call.
     
  6. yossarin

    yossarin Member

    Nov 4, 2007
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
  7. Shammypantaloons

    Apr 20, 2012
    Club:
    DC United
    No, I mentioned Santos and DeLeon in the context of frequent lineup changes. I think we should sell Hamid, release Dudar, consider releasing Salihi if he is just permanent super sub status and even consider selling Najar, quite frankly. These are guys that get rotated out frequently, some of whom look horrible sometimes (with flashes of 'very good'). Santos is fine for now, but I think his status would depend on who we picked up. I love most of these guys as players, for different reasons. You can look at Andy and see a kind of little brother, or Salihi and see some new Albanian friends at matches (although they don't seem to care about DC United as a club at all, generally speaking), or Dudar and what he did for us at the beginning of the season.

    I see a team I hate like NY making a brilliant move like releasing Dane Richards (cult of personality guy that was holding them back) and picking up Le Toux and I think "Wow, that is an amazing deal, why don't we have the courage to do something like that?"

    I also hate seeing teams like Kansas City performing well by being very consistent. We try to argue that we switch things up all the time because 'we can' and because everyone is contributing, but what happens if things stop meshing and we start slipping? With injuries, things get a bit worse for us as well, because now we have to manage Robbie's spot with a new player (Korb?), who will feed to a different player each game at mid or right field, who will feed to a different player up top.

    EDIT- I also hate how Olsen keeps pushing this "bite" and "anger" thing. I don't want Bite, I want finesse and teamwork.
    “I thought we could have been meaner, I thought we could have been angrier."
     
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  8. cfig

    cfig Member

    Jul 14, 2010
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just an FYI but no, it was not. The player who scored was originally in an offside position, then when the wing received the ball he drifted back onside. His position when the ball is played to him, which was onside, is what's relevant to the call.

    Fun game to watch for us Houston fans, not so much for you guys I'd imagine.
     
  9. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then select the back arrow to Main Menu, down button to the Team Management icon and hit the X button. Down button to the Transfer Market icon and hit the X button. Enter down, up, down, up while holding the Select button. When the screen comes up, enter the code "Thohir".

    Then just sort players by skill ratings and use endless money to buy them.

    Win trophies.
     
  10. Shammypantaloons

    Apr 20, 2012
    Club:
    DC United
    There's nothing keeping us from making these moves (normative or otherwise). Maybe now isn't the time to do them, sure, but at least one change seems like a smart idea. Dudar is a semi-permanent bench rider for 225,000. Salihi is fine, but at 305,000, other teams are getting just as many goals off the bench for practically nothing. Gordon has 7 goals at 110,000, for example. Andy is making 150,000+ now but a lot of the time I wonder what he is doing. He's kind of gotten over 'taking on 3 people at once' in favor of putting balls in from the right corner, but all too often he's just invisible on the field or a detriment. I don't think what I am suggesting is to acquire foreign talent at million dollar price tags, but to acknowledge that halfway through the season we are doing quite well, but that might not always last. A few positions are constantly changing, and while we try to say it's because "we have a lot of talent and we're making changes to suit the matchup," we also hear the coaches saying those players simply aren't earning their spots. Maybe the changes won't happen now, but at the end of the season I hope we reflect on this and see where we can improve.
     
  11. stangspritzring

    stangspritzring Member+

    Apr 3, 2006
    NorMD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know. First, we haven't really established that we're using our best personnel effectively. Second, our expensive guys coming off the bench have generally had strong, positive impacts on our game. Are they expensive? Sure. However, they are definitely producing. Getting rid of them in favour of lower cost alternatives is a dangerous gamble. Sure, someone might go on a goal streak for $110k, but then, they also may not. Would we sacrifice our effective depth in hopes our remaining producers aren't continue to be so AND don't get injured, to gamble on a lower cost alternative who might not even mesh with the team?

    Bosko, Dudar and Salihi add dimensions that likely even pay dividends in practice, on improving players' soccer brains, even if they don't touch the pitch on game day (which, I hasten to add, drives me nuts).
     
  12. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dudar is a semi-permanent bench rider for 225,000.
    United has three center backs that make about the same amount of money. They can't all play. I'm okay with paying Dudar because you need quality depth and you usually have to pay for it.

    Salihi is fine, but at 305,000, other teams are getting just as many goals off the bench for practically nothing. Gordon has 7 goals at 110,000, for example.
    And Kris Boyd has 7 goals at 1.5 million. These things happen. I think Salihi has suffered from a lack of experience in MLS (Gordon's been around the MLS block) and lack of minutes with the first team (9 sporadic starts), so in this respect, I agree with you. He hasn't had the chance to build that chemistry. However, it's hard to argue with it when you have Santos and Pontius scoring up there, and throw in DeRo. It's a tough sell. Fortunately, he'll be around awhile to show what he can do.

    Andy is making 150,000+ now but a lot of the time I wonder what he is doing. He's kind of gotten over 'taking on 3 people at once' in favor of putting balls in from the right corner, but all too often he's just invisible on the field or a detriment.
    Andy commands a lot of attention from the opposing team. He is marked tightly and when he receives the ball, he is almost always double teamed. These are things you just can't say about Danny Cruz. Another biggie is he plays defense and generally locks down his side of the field, particularly when you consider the right backs he's had to cover for. I think Andy is getting criticism for doing what he has been asked to do, and that is play more for the team. He's still very young and inexperienced and often makes the wrong decisions with the ball, but he will always create chances. At 150k, this is a bargain, imo. Detriment? I disagree vehemently.

    It is my opinion (ad nauseum) that United has all the pieces it needs, it just still hasn't quite figured out how to put them all together in an optimal way. I agree with you that they would be better off with a firm 11 that works and gels into a machine. I thought we were seeing the beginning of that against Montreal, but Houston was a step back, mainly because of the red. However, I watched a lot games this weekend and other teams around the league seem to play at a pace above United, so I do think United has some catching up to do.
     
  13. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You get points for not taking my jest personally.

    I think it's just too soon to be talking like this about a team who is near on pace to make the playoffs, win the division, and win the shield. If the team wins, why do we care all that much about who makes what and plays when?

    There is a cap, we're using it and a roster size, we're utilizing it. It's not like we can have 40 cheap players that pan out wonderfully and pat ourseleves on the back for being so clever.

    You have 28 players, you pay them league money, you win the league championship-- there's nothing to argue about in any of that.

    Now like you say, this off-season, is a different story. Even if this team by some miracle pulled itself together and garnered a trophy, there is work to be done, which should be done at that time.

    I don't think players like Salihi and Dudar, who have made positive contributions to the season, should be cast aside in just 4 months of service.

    And as I have said many times before, when our track record for finding productive players isn't great lately, we shouldn't be in the business of getting rid of decent players.
     
  14. skippy

    skippy Member

    Nov 17, 1999
    Alexandria, Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hamid deserved the red. No question. I've seen it not given, but out of a referee's caprice, not really the laws of the game.

    Russell IS a really nice guy (and I did get a chance to meet him). Maybe he was injured before the game, but he works much better with Najar in front of him than with Cruz, which is to say, he needs cover, which is to say, maybe he's past it.

    How much does it stink to be Willis and have the five spot at SJ and the four from last night on your GAA with not much you could do about either?
     
  15. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    "Not impossible" doesn't sound like a clear scoring chance. The ref could have easily given a yellow considering the narrow angle and the defender on the line.

    Regardless I'm happy the ref gave the red despite the fact I think it's harsh. The bottom line is that the level of laziness and stupidity from Hamid on that play should have had him benched for next game anyway
     
  16. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was a clear scoring chance. I'm a terrible soccer player who never played the game until I was in my mid-30s, and I've scored at that tight of an angle.
     
  17. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    THIS.
     
  18. DangSkippy

    DangSkippy Member+

    Apr 28, 2009
    MoCo Maryland
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Criticizing a lack of teamwork and finesse would have been a little obtuse considering the entire team all but gave up after the red card and the PK. Criticizing a lack of "anger" and "bite" is perfectly reasonable when the majority of your first team faced some adversity and immediately threw in the towel.
     
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  19. Shammypantaloons

    Apr 20, 2012
    Club:
    DC United
    He said it at the Meet Benny event before the season even started. He said it when we were winning and losing alike. It's not simply a 'post red card' strategy, it has been something he wanted all season long.
     
  20. DangSkippy

    DangSkippy Member+

    Apr 28, 2009
    MoCo Maryland
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really? And they still gave up like that yesterday? Goddamn. Seems like he should emphasize it more, not less. As if what he says to the press makes a lick of difference.

    I can understand criticizing his tactical decisions. I can understand criticizing the fact that his teams periodically fall apart and play with all the cohesion of a coed intramural squad. I cannot understand complaining about him standing in front of a microphone saying what everyone expects him to say about grit, and effort, and stick-to-it-ivness and all those other things for which he was known as a player. Particularly after a game where a little of that shit would have gone a long way.
     
  21. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He also said; “I thought our shape could have been better and you keep the game 1-0 as long as you can. We got a little stretched, and we got impatient.” So it's not just 'bite' that concerned him.

    He also said something to the effect of 'some guys worked hard while others didn't and that's disturbing'. I wonder what guys he's thinking of? It seemed to me the whole team took it a bit easy after the red, with the possible exception of Woolard.
     
  22. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've no problem with Benny's call for more grit and effort on the pitch, but I believe he has let that metric overshadow a proper appreciation of other important attributes, such as vision, soccer intelligence, calmness on the ball, and game management.
     
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  23. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    The whole discussion about "bite" and whatnot is beside the point. Olsen is speaking to the press and public in time honored cliches. If all he thought was necessary to win was "bite" he never would have been hired in the first place and never would have been the player that he was. Get over it.
     
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  24. stangspritzring

    stangspritzring Member+

    Apr 3, 2006
    NorMD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought Korb had many nice moments, as well, and Pontius never really stopped...What Cruz lacked in technical ability he certainly made up for in drive to go forward where he could. Outside of that, though, it was pretty flat.
     
  25. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe that's what Shammypanatloons was getting at. That's certainly what I was thinking and why I "signed on" above.
     

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