DC v PHI {R}

The foul on Pontius was leading me to post "What was the least controversial penalty or red card you ever gave?" as a point of curiosity.

Then, well, yeah.....

And it just gets curioser and curioser.

EDIT: And now the ref has completely lost control of the game. The fake fall by Williams was almost comical.

Was the encroachment call against Pontius correct? Does it matter if there were Philly players encroaching also?

Ref was atrocius today. Wrong call on disallowed goal. Crazy red cards. Pk fiasco. Hope it doesn't cost dc a playoff spot.

Geiger with a pathetically poor performance in DC. He allowed thuggish play the whole game, consistently telling players "No more" and then doing so repeatedly for mostly Philly (but also DC players). He warned one player for Philly three times AFTER giving him his first yellow. He completely lost control of the game after:
1. Calling back a DC goal calling a foul on DC for contact with the goalkeeper, despite the fact that no DC player touched the goalkeeper, the ball was loose, and was cleared by a Philly player.
2. Called back a PK on a bullshit encourachment call (both teams came into the box very slightly) and then lost control of a pushing match that ensued when a player grabbed the ball after he turned his back on the players, giving Boskovic a red card but choosing not to give a red card to the player who provoked the incident.
3. Ignored several other pushing matches, cheap shots, etc... after the red card.
4. Then gave a straight red card to Dudar for a foul that he had seen 10 times this game and done nothing but said "no more".

I am generally supportive of the refs on the board, but that was an embarrassment (EDIT: Calling this an embarrassment is unfair to Geiger, who is a good referee. I REALLY think he had a bad game, for the reasons above, but we have all had bad days. It is frustrating, especially when it is your team who is on the bad side of several poor decisions, but I regret the intemperate language END EDIT). I was frustrated by how much he was letting go and how many times he gave the "no more" warning to the same players, but after the PK it was clear that the players had no respect for what he was doing on the field.

I've seen Geiger before and generally been pretty impressed, but that was awful even before the called back PK and the 2 red cards.

Technically yes. I've never seen that infractin called in the half circle. He was just an a**hole today.

I don't see a problem with this call.

saw Geiger get in the way of the play three times I believe. two times resulted in loss of possession and third time just prevented a player from receiving a pass but the ball continued on to another player on the same team.

Looked to me that he could have avoided every single one of those situations.

I realize that I am not unbiased here , but I feel like we have this discussion every time a PK is called back for encroachment or goalie movement. I really think that this was trifling, and if it isn't, then that level of encroachment needs to be called consistently. If referees feel that encroachment has to be called, then it has to be consistently called, and that type of encroachment happens on almost every PK in MLS and is generally not called.

In a sense I feel like it is like the 6 second call in the Olympics, in that it is legally correct but not common, and it ruins the game when you have random decisions made about things like this that are not consistent over time and cause a goal to be pulled back.

I feel a little bad about my last post because I am a fan and thus required to overreact, but I really think Geiger had a very poor game for the reasons I stated, but I probably shouldn't have been quite so rude about it.

DCU fans coming in to whinge. Dudars red card was easy. Encroachment is encroachment, end of story.

You call encroachment trifling? Get over yourself. Encroachment calls have been quite established. Please refrain from using sour grapes to make a comparative situation to Christina pedersen's infamous call. I call encroachment a few times a year.

I will say with regard to the Dudar red card (which happened about 15 yards from me), that IF every referee in MLS red carded this tackle every time then I wouldn't have a problem with it. BUT we all know that doesn't happen. And this referee doesn't always do it either. Coming on the heels of the other red card I think it was especially over-reactive.

As a DC United fan I'd like to be mad about the encroachment, but I just can't. The players shoudl know this rule. There is absolutely zero reason for them to ever be in the box early, ESPECIALLY when DeRo is taking the kick. You know he's going to blast it. So it's either going in the goal or way over. There's no need to ever take a chance or give the referee a reason to call it back.

I think his failure to deal with Philly #13's several bad fouls and gamesmanship after he'd already cautioned him was a problem.

He was actually calling more fouls than he normally does, particularly in the first half. In the second he seemed to let up a little.

Boskovic is an idiot. And his red card was deserved. But I think it is a case where it should have been equal misconduct on both sides. Torres had no business doing what he did which goaded Boskovic into reacting. So he gets one of DC's best players sent off and only gets a caution for his trouble.

This would have been a tough match for anyone. Two teams that hate each other. The last couple of USOC matches have devolved into bloodbaths with multiple send offs. I think he tried to an extent to deal with Philly's time wasting, including the first caution on Williams. But then he only added 2 minutes to the first half after all that. And allowed the slow-walks off the field for the subs. Didn't really deal with Adu's refusal to leave the field when he was being substituted, etc. All of that stuff really escalated the temperature.

This match happened to feature an after-game referee clinic with the game officials. Maybe some one who went can tell us all about it.

What pictures and replays won't show is that the taking of the PK was delayed as Geiger needed to warn players who were pushing for position and already starting to encroach before the PK. So that already had his attention and it should have been NO surprise to the players that he was watching it closely.

The encroachment call was 100% legit. Other than that, there was 1 game changing bad call and a whole lot of mis-management.

That said, I wouldn't say the referee was responsible for the result. DC blew it with that encroachment. They had the go-ahead goal and they shot themselves in the foot.

For me, the most interesting decision was the disallowed goal linked below. With the benefit of hindsight, any contact between the forward and keeper had no impact on the play, but Geiger went with the quick whistle. On a play like that, I don't know the right thing to do.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2012-08-19-dc-v-phi/highlights?videoID=197216

Rolling over the top of the gk? That is a tough call for you?

Geiger lost it by letting too much go early.

Not maintaining operational control after recalling the PK. A CR in control would not have had two players fighting over the ball that results in a red and yellow card.

That is not crying but facts!

Had to come here after the game to laugh at everyone trying to back up Geiger. That's 3 games i've seen him in now and he has been terrible in every single one of them. Either he is unlucky and all his bad games were involving the Union, or the idea he is the best ref in the league is silly (or really bad for MLS).

His performance out there tonight was bad for High school level, never mind MLS.

Starting with getting tangled up in play/on the ball 2-3 times. If it happens 1 time, you may say ok, got caught out - 3 times in a game is a problem.

Half way through the game and no yellow cards, yet there were about 3-4 bad tackles from behind (mostly from DC Utd players at this point) and then the first YC is for "time wasting" on a throw in? really? I think that one is all down to the DC coach complaining. OF course, later in the game - with similar "actions" going on, no time wasting called. Funny that.

Then there is Lahoud (Unions #13) who deservedly got a YC, was then allowed to get away with "last warnings" another 3 times (i suppose when you let things go for DC players early, you gotta let Union players get away with it too right?)

Next there was the PK situation. Yes it is encroaching, but that is a situation you never see given usually If refs are going to start, then it has to be consistent. It didn't even affect the play in this case as the goal was scored directly. While you can say that the referee is "correct", i would have been disappointed if it happened on a Union PK, and wouldn't have cared if he didn't give it tonight. The disallowed goal was just really really funny - it was a "foul" maybe by the Union player on his own keeper. Have to really laugh at that one. Thankfully by the end of the game the early "letting DC get away with things" turned into really screwing DC over.

I've no idea what Boskovic did to get the RC, i didn't see any replay. Sounds of "well they sent our guy off but not theirs" being mooted, but i don't like that. If Boskovic did something RC worthy, then it doesn't have to be "evened up" by making up a reason.

The DC 2nd Red Card was deserved. Awful tackle. Just because there was some bad tackles that got no punishment early on doesn't mean that it isn't a red card. Unfortunately, this is where Geiger has issues imo - he let too much go early, and it turns into a tackle that could break a leg, and him having to bring the RC out.

Another issue Geiger had - time keeping. 5 minutes of added time is something that the game had to have - but when in that 5 minutes you have 30seconds of "timewasting" by the DC keeper on a Goal kick, and the Sheanon Williams RC and everything surrounding that - we maybe saw 2minutes of play in that 5 minutes. How only 45 seconds more was added i don't know. Of course the Union were so bad even with 2 man advantage, it wasn't like we would have won it anyway.

As for Sheanon's 2nd yellow - no way on earth is that a foul. Never. Perfect tackle. If it was only a foul because it was from behind then we should have had a penalty on a tackle from behind on Jack Mcinerney (Well done Geiger, you got that right). Of course, any chance of him being able to appeal that card was gone by his falling to the ground, but still - referee had completely lost the plot imo, and i would hope MLS would come out and say so. Of course, they won't, and he will still be up for "referee of the year".

Thank god this time he gave us 1 point instead of costing us.

Should never have been a free kick.

This

Was that Lahoud? Dude had more lives than a litter of cats.

When Geiger first came into the league, I loved his guts. Since then, well, he's still a good ref, but he doesn't have that confidence and command that he did at first. It's weird, because you'd think it would go the other way. He made aLOT of gutless calls today. In fact, I'd say every mistake I can remember was of the gutless variety. The disallowed DC goal, not showing Lahoud a 2nd yellow any of the times he had a chance to, and then the makeup 2nd yellow on Sheanon Williams. And that's my basic complaint with him in general now...too, too often, he makes the "easy" call instead of the right call. That's fairly typical of mediocre MLS refs, but not of the good ones.

I'll end by saying that was a good (and gutsy) call on the disallowed PK. Once I saw a replay, I had not complaint.

A few unusual decisions and the rats come out of the woodwork.

Hint: do not listen to the television commentators. They don't know what they are talking about and they will poison your mind with the nonsense they spew.

I just watched the MLS highlight reel, so I can't comment on the quality of the entire game.

The overturned goal, in spite of Kyle Martino throwing a fit about it, was the right call. Yes, a defender kicked the ball out from under MacMath. But Salihi kicked at it. If the defender doesn't clear it, Salhili would have hit the ball, and MacMath had it pinned to the ground... which is possession. "Attempting to kick" is also a DFK offense, and in the USSF ATR it makes explicit note that attempting to play the ball while it is in the possession of the goalkeeper must be punished with a DFK, 12.16:

I know fans will find that frustrating, but that's the absolutely right call in that situation because of Sahili's attempt to kick the ball. You have to protect the goalkeeper.

I agree with the other referees on this thread that the encroachment had to be called... it was dramatic and obvious. It doesn't help that Martino was blabbing about the Philly players a step or two in and ignoring the fact that Pontius had come screaming into the arc well before the kick. Alas, one day broadcasters might put somebody in the booth who understands the LOTG.

The highlight clip didn't show what Boskovic did... I would guess it was contact above the shoulders and left Geiger (or, based on that discussion, his AR) no choice.

The straight red to Dudar was so obvious that his own teammates were yelling at him. Again, Martino tried to play up the fact that the AR didn't seem to think it was more than a foul (to Martino's defense, the AR never went to his own back pocket) but it was also a situation where the AR appeared to defer to Geiger once it became obvious that he had it. Not really over-involvement, but the AR wasn't playing down the foul either. At least that's what it looked like to me.

I agree with MassRef that Williams' second yellow, while on replay looked like a clean tackle, was risky considering he was on a card. That is a tough spot for any referee, caught on a break with the attacker about to step free. Sadly for Williams, while he might have gotten that one overturned after the game, his refusal to leave the field and his flop will ensure that suspension will likely be served one way or another.

Again, I can't comment as to how Geiger controlled the whole game, but with the exception of Williams' second caution (and MassRef pointing out it was a reckless chance to take while on a caution), I didn't see anything wrong with any of these "controversial" decisions.

Quite an eventful weekend in MLS...

Geiger has been calling encroachment strict all season. Not the first time hes ordered retakes.