Review: Croatian clubs in Bosnia & Herzegovina

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrvatski_nogomet_u_Bosni_i_Hercegovini

Culture of Croats in Bosnia & Herzegovina:

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kultura_Hrvata_Bosne_i_Hercegovine

Croatian sport in Bosnia & Herzegovina. Pages are only in Croatian.

I found here that Ivica Osim is of Croatian nationality.

Croatian footballers from Bosnia and Herzegovina:

Ivica Osim, Josip Bukal, Josip Katalinski, Nikola Nikić, Mario Stanić, Miroslav Blažević, Miroslav Brozović, Davor Jozić, Franjo Vladić, Ivan Ćurković, Blaž Slišković, Vlado Slišković, Josip Musa, Boro Primorac, Ivica Barbarić, Goran Jurić, Predrag Jurić, Jadranko Topić, Marijan Bloudek i Ivan Cvjetković.

Croatian basketball players from Bosnia and Herzegovina:

Franjo Arapović, Marko Batina, Stanko Barać, Josip Bilinovac, Bojan Bogdanović, Matej Mamić, Damir Markota (Muslim/Croat), Damir Mršić, Damir Mulaomerović (Muslim), Zoran Planinić, Vedran Princ, Ivan Ramljak, Jasmin Repeša (maybe Muslim), Robert Rikić, Marin Rozić, Andrija Stipanović, i Goran Suton.

Croatian handball players from Bosnia and Herzegovina:

Ivano Balić, Božidar Jović, Zlatko Saračević (maybe Muslim), Irfan Smajlagić (Muslim), Slavko Goluža, Božidar Jović, Denis Buntić, Vlado Šola, Venio Losert i Mirko Alilović.

They all played for Croatian national teams. Many of them today have heritage of Bosnia and Herzegovina, but they were born outside of Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's interesting to ask why Croats leave Bosnia and Herzegovina if they feel excellent there?

Roman Catholicism in Bosnia and Herzegovina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholicism_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

Bosnia and Herzegovina art: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_art

Croatian literature in Bosnia and Herzegovina: http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrvatska_književnost_u_Bosni_i_Hercegovini

Interesting, things about Croats aren't translated in English. To bad, because Croats have large influence in Bosnia and Herzegovina. After all Bosnia and Herzegovina are Croatian historic regions.

Croatian music in Bosnia and Herzegovina: http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrvatska_glazba_u_Bosni_i_Hercegovini

Croatian cultural heritage in Bosnia and Herzegovina:
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrvatska_kulturna_baština_u_Bosni_i_Hercegovini

Croatian educational system in Bosnia and Herzegovina:
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrvatski_obrazovni_sustav_u_Bosni_i_Hercegovini

Football in Croatia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_Croatia

NK GOŠK Gabela:

There is always a checkerboard. Should we ban them like Zrinjski Mostar?

GOŠK Gabela is a football team based in Gabela, Čapljina in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Their home ground is Podavala in Gabela which holds about 3,000 people.
Their supporters are known as the Blue Lions (Plavi Lavovi).

Capljina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Čapljina

Croats are majority here, but not like in other West Herzegovina cities, where they have almost 100%.

Stadium:

Sarajevo doesn't want to invest money here.

Famous players:

Nikica Jelavić who played for S.V. Zulte Waregem in Belgium and is now at Scottish Champions Rangers.
Andrija Anković who played for GOŠK Gabela, then for Neretva Metkovic, Hajduk Split and 1. FC Kaiserslautern in Germany.

Memorial tournament:

Every year since 1986, in Gabela, GOŠK Gabela host a memorial tournament in the name of Andrija Anković in which teams such as Dinamo Zagreb and Hajduk Split usually play in.

Recent results over the years include
2004:
GOŠK Gabela 0 Dinamo Zagreb 7 (Zahora 3, Strupar, Poldrugac, Da Silva, Bosnjak)
2005:
GOŠK Gabela 0 HŠK Zrinjski Mostar 1 (Zoran Rajovic)
February 2006:
GOŠK Gabela, Čelik Zenica, Neretva Metković and Hrvatski Dragovoljac played in this tournament:
GOŠK Gabela 2 Čelik Zenica 3
Neretva Metković 3 Hrvatski Dragovoljac 2
Final: Čelik Zenica vs Neretva Metković
February 2007:
GOŠK Gabela, Sarajevo, Neretva Metković and Hrvatski Dragovoljac played in this tournament:
GOŠK Gabela 1 Hrvatski Dragovoljac 0
Sarajevo vs Neretva Metković
Third Place: Neretva Metković 1 Hrvatski Dragovoljac 4
Final: Sarajevo 3 GOŠK Gabela 2

There is one error on Wikipedia. English version said that the coach is a Serbian Milomir Odović, and Crotian Wikipedia said that the coach is a Croatian Darko Dražić.

Darko Drazic: http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darko_Dražić
Milomir Odović: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milomir_Odović

Another Croatian club from Bosnia and Herzegovina played their away match against Olimpik Sarajevo. It should be Olympique but they write their words as they read (Vuk Karadzic theory).

The result was 0-0. GOSK Gabela is on the 12 place. Not very bright future for them.

Standings: http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=bih/nationalleague/standings.html

If Siroki Brijeg, Zrinjski Mostar and GOSK Gabela will participate in the Croatian League, where would you put them in the standings?

Siroki Brijeg is the best club in BiH league with 22 points, Zrinjski is 4th with 15 points, and GOSK Gabela is 12nd with 10 points.

Is Siroki Brijeg at the same level than NK Osijek for example?
Zrinjski has a similar level than Rijeka maybe?
GOSK Gabela would continue in the Croatian 1rst division, or would get relegated to the 2nd division?

Dinamo Zagreb(28)
Hajduk Split and Radnicki Split(21)
Osijek(18), Inter Zapresic and Slaven Belupo(17), Zagreb(16)
Rijeka, Zadar and Cibalia(13), Lokomotiva Zagreb and Istra(11)
Karlovac(8), Lucko and Sibenik(6)
Varazdin(1)

Siroki Brijeg, Zrinjski Mostar and GOSK Gabela would probably be on sixth, seventh place in Croatian national league. I am realistic, because they dont have informations on Wikipedia, their players have mostly black letters.

BiH league has problem with setting up matches probably, you can see that home teams always wins, nobody expects that they win as guests.
For example if some club needs assistance with points, probably they can expect assistance from another club with same nationality.

It makes sense. For example if you have Croatian, Muslim or Serbian club on the bottom of table, they can expect that clubs who are also Croats, Muslims or Serbs let them some points. Thats normal on Balkan Peninsula.

You can see also Olympiakos Volos and Fenerbahce who were kicked from European competitions. One Turkish member from here said that Fenerbahce hasnt done anything wrong, probably he knows better. Same thing happened in Yugoslavia, two clubs from same entity helped each other. Before there wasnt any rivalry between Hajduk Split and Dinamo Zagreb, they were like brothers. It would be nice that they have good relations. After all Croatian league is a small league, same nation. Before you could see friendly matches between Hajduk Split and Dinamo Zagreb, now you can see only arrows. It became boring. Especially when you see victims of this violence, people who were beatten up.

Some day Zrinjski, Siroki Brijeg, GOSK and other clubs from the second Bosnian league could play in Croatian league, they would come home at last. For now we can watch national antagonism, disturbed people who hate each other.

Several videos represent Sarajevo fans how they destroy Croatian city Siroki Brijeg. But you wont probably find how Croatian fans are destroying Muslim city Sarajevo or Serbian Banja Luka. I could guarantee this. Bad things happen only in West Herzegovina against Velez, Partizan Belgrade, Sarajevo, etc.

I think that history is on Croatian side. Zrinjski Mostar was banned. Imagine if someone bans Palestino, Audax Italiano, Deportivo Armenio, Ajax Cape Town, just because they have the names, colors and coat of arm that reminds on the old country. If they exist world wide, why shouldnt Croatian clubs in BiH exist.

This story with Zrinjski Mostar and Siroki Brijeg is sad. Also many notable players of Velez Mostar were Croats. In RRepublika Srpska many Croats lived there before the war, now they are all around the world. Croats can only have peace in that small part West Herzegovina Canton and Herzegovina-Neretva canton. In middle Bosnia Croats are minority, Muslims bring all important decisions. BiH is a very sad country, country wiyhout future and national dialogue. It would be nice that everyone has their own state, but Serbs cant have Republika Srpska because their founders are in Hague prison. Thats why you cant see their national team on Euros and World Cups.

Zrinjski Mostar, Siroki Brijeg could be around seventh place in Croatian league.
GOSK Gabela would maybe play in Second Croatian league, because they are on the 12 place in Bosnia and Herzegovina. You can see their UEFA competition results, they have problems with weak leagues. Zrinjski Mostar lost once against Partizan 11-1 in two matches, but Partizan was kicked and Zrinjski passed this opponent, but they lost against Macedonian club Rabotnicki in the next round.

These clubs are special because of their national and patriotic emotions. Imagine than how other Bosnian clubs play bad, if Siroki Brijeg is on the first place. Siroki Brijeg is one of the best organized clubs in BiH, because they have national peace, nice financial background. But their players didn't played in Dinamo or Hajduk, they would buy them if they were great.

For example Croatian player of Glasgow Rangers and Croatian NT Nikica Jelavic was born in Gabela and he started to play in GOSK Gabela, he was good and Hajduk Split bought him, after that he played in Rapid Vienna, in Zulte Waregem I think and in Glasgow Rangers

Website of Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina, interesting articles in English also:
http://www.hercegbosna.org/eng/

Exclusive: Croatian counties are going for referendum to leave Federation B&H

http://www.hercegbosna.org/eng/curr...r-referendum-to-leave-federation-bh-4169.html

why would there be croatian clubs in bosnia wtf why are you making crap up, its like saying manchester city is a bosnian club all soccer clubs in bosnia are and have been bosnian clubs

Wikipedia site mentions about Croatian clubs in Bosnia and Herzegovina, blame them. I accept Wikipedia as a relevant source, to be honest I accept every foreign website that says abut Croats and Croatia. I don't have complains like some other nations. These clubs are Croatian clubs from Bosnia and Herzegovina, it's really easy to understand.

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrvatski_nogomet_u_Bosni_i_Hercegovini

Bosnia and Herzegovina is divided, Croats aren't accepted in every day society, because of this they need to protect themselves and keep their Croatian identity, because they have small percent of residents, only 17%. Muslims rule in Federation of BIH, Serbs rule in Republika Srpska, Croats rule in West Herzegovina and Herzegovina - Neretva Cantons. Croats escaped from North and South Bosnia, because of to much violence against them.

Other two nations have also their own clubs, Bosnia and Herzegovina national team has only one nation that rules in Bosnian NT and Bosnian Football Federation. You can find maybe 3,4 players who are Croats or Serbs.

Without Croatians Sasa Papac and Boris Pandža and Serbians Zvjezdan Misimovic and Darko Maletic Bosnian team would be much weaker. Croatian defense rules in Bosnian defense. Serbian player Misimovic is the play-maker, number 10. His name Zvjezdan means Star. Star of the Bosnian team.

Recent callups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_national_football_team

There you can see much more Croats and Serbs, but they aren't accepted.
Three different nations of Bosnia and Herzegovina have their own society. Croats are one of them and I have the right to write about Croatian football in Bosnia and Herzegovina, your dictatorship is past tense, left in medieval Ottoman Empire times and in recent war. Democracy will exist on this thread.

Why didn't you wrote about HSK Zrinjski Mostar, NK Siroki Brijeg, GOSK Gabela on Bosnia thread? After all they are "Bosnia and Herzegovina" clubs? You only represented there Zeljeznicar, Sarajevo, Velez, without these three clubs.

Croatian clubs from Bosnia and Herzegovina deserves presentation on Bosnia thread also.

You are being translucent, you are writing here about sacred unity of Bosnia and Herzegovina, but on Bosnian thread I can't find mentioned Croatian clubs, your compatriots mention HSK Zrinjski in the context of a Pigs (Svinjski) - direct insult against Croatian noble family Zrinski, who fought against Ottoman Empire.

Because of these insults I opened threads about Croatian clubs from Bosnia and Herzegovina, after all Croatian club Siroki Brijeg is on the first place. Don't you think that he deserves some attention? I am not naive person and others will recognize your games on Bosnia thread.

I don't see nothing about Serbian Banja Luka club, Croatian Zrinjski Mostar, Siroki Brijeg GOSK Gabela on Bosnian thread. Why is that? They play in Second Division maybe? Lack of importance?

If they all are Bosnian clubs, than I would ask you that you open threads that say about Zrinjski Mostar, Siroki Brijeg, GOSK Gabela, same as they opened themes about Velez, Zeljeznicar, Sarajevo. Don't play with me, you are becoming more and more translucent like your compatriots.

Don't troll here! Bosnia and Herzegovina is divided and you know that. Muslims write abut Muslim clubs, Croats write about Croatian clubs, Serbs write about Serbian clubs. You probably don't support Siroki Brijeg, Zinjski Mostar or GOSK Gabela.

Save us from your false hospitality for "Bosnian unity".

In Scotland Celtic Glasgow has Irish heritage, many South American teams have names from their old countries, because they are progressive democratic society, not like Bosnia and Herzegovina:

Chile has Palestino, Audax Italiano, Union Espanola.
Brazil has Vasco da Gama.
Argentina has Deportivo Armenio.

Australia has many Croatian clubs, you can see them on Croatian diaspora thread. If they can use democratic postulates, how come Bosnia and Herzegovina can't use them? Croatian clubs Zrinjski Mostar, Siroki Brijeg, GOSK Gabela have Croatian coat of arms, if they consider that they are Croats, why should you want to change this, after all you have your own clubs.

Your trip on Croatian thread revealed your true intentions. Another failure of you and your compatriots.

Croatian club GOSK Gabela lost against Zeljeznicar Sarajevo at home 0-1 in 90' minute. To bad, they achieved three points in a very tied match.

In Zeljeznicar Sarajevo play maybe three, four Croats. Everyone are equal in this club.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FK_Željezničar_Sarajevo

Croatian players: Josip Kvesic, Srdan Stanic, maybe Zajko Zeba, maybe Benjamin Colic.

Croatian club GOSK Gabela is having hard times, they hold 14th place.
Standings: http://www.worldfootball.net/spielplan/bih-premier-liga-2011-2012-spieltag/10/tabelle/

Results of the whole season and upcoming matches of Croatian clubs in Bosnia and Herzegovina:
http://www.worldfootball.net/alle_spiele/bih-premier-liga-2011-2012/

11. Round, 23/10/2011:

Široki Brijeg - Čelik Zenica
Zrinjski Mostar - FK Sarajevo
Zvijezda Gradačac - NK GOSK Gabela

Islamization of Bosnia and Herzegovina:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

"Bosnia and Herzegovina’s Slavic population underwent a large-scale conversion to Islam after the region’s conquest and occupation by the Ottoman Empire in the second half of the 15th century, giving it a unique character within the Balkan region. This conversion appears to have been not sudden but a gradual process through coercions based on various discriminatory rules imposed by the Ottomons—it took more than a hundred years for the number of Slavic Muslims to approach parity with that of Christians."

"Economic and social gain was also an incentive to become a Muslim: conversion to Islam conferred economic and social status. Under the feudal system imposed by the Ottomans, only those who converted to Islam could acquire and inherit land and property, which accorded them political rights and status usually denied to non-Muslims."

"A number of Christian nobles, however, were able to retain their estates early on in the Ottoman occupation by fighting on behalf of the Empire, suggesting that holding on to their property was not a major incentive for early conversions to Islam. At a lower socioeconomic level, most new converts to Islam were able to turn their holdings into freehold farms. At the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder were the serfs, who constituted the majority of the population and were predominantly Christians. In addition, only Muslims could hold positions in the Ottoman state apparatus, which conferred special privileges and a much higher standard of living. Muslims also enjoyed legal privileges: Christians could not sue Muslims and their testimony could not be used against Muslims in court."

The gradual conversion of many Bosnians to Islam proceeded at different rates in various areas and among different groups. Conversion to Islam was more rapid in urban areas, which were centers of learning and of the Ottoman administration, than in the countryside. Merchants found it advantageous to convert to Islam because they gained greater freedom of movement and state protection for their goods as Muslims. Many professional soldiers also converted to Islam to ensure more rapid promotion.

"The various advantages and privileges that were reserved for Muslims and the large number of conversions they encouraged among the native Slavic population led to the emergence over time of a largely local Slavic Muslim ruling class that dominated political and economic power in Bosnia and Herzegovina."

References:

Arnold, Thomas W. (1913), The preaching of Islam: a history of the propagation of the Muslim faith, Constable & Company.
Fine, John V.A. (2002), "The Various Faiths in the History of Bosnia: Middle Ages to the Present", in Shatzmiller, Maya, Islam and Bosnia: Conflict Resolution and Foreign Policy in Multi-Ethnic States, McGill Queen's University Press, pp. 3–23.
Friedman, Francine (2004), Bosnia and Herzegovina: A Polity on the Brink, Routledge.
Friedman, Francine (1996), The Bosnian Muslims: Denial of a Nation, WestviewPress.
Jelavich, Barbara (1983), History of the Balkans: Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries, 1, Cambridge University Press.
McCarthy, Justin (1994), "Ottoman Empire: 1800-1878", in Pinson, Mark, The Muslims of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Harvard University Press, pp. 54–83.
Malcolm, Noel (1994), Bosnia, A Short History, New York University Press.
Sugar, Peter F. (1977), Southeastern Europe under Ottoman Rule, 1354–1804, University of Washington Press.

Bosnia and Herzegovina Football Cup

Haven't watched this cup before, but now we have round of 16 competition.

http://www.worldfootball.net/wettbewerb/bih-kup-bih/

Croatian club Zrinjski Mostar lost against Velez Mostar 2-0. In the first match at home Zrinjski lost 0-3, there were some conflicts and the first match was registered as 0-3 for Velez Mostar. Obviously Zrinjski didn't wanted to play on high level in the second leg, so they lost 2-0.

Also GOSK Gabela lost in boh matches of Bosnia and Herzegovina Cup. Their opponent was Celik Zenica. In the first match Celik won 1-3 in Gabela and in Zenica it was 3-0.

Third Croatian club NK Siroki Brijeg who holds the first position in Bosnia and Herzegovina national league won against Slavija Sarajevo in both matches. In the first leg Siroki Brijeg won 1-2 in Sarajevo and in the second leg Siroki Brijeg won 4-2 at their stadium Pecara.

So, Croats have one hope in achieving the Cup winner. Nice job Siroki Brijeg!

Really informative thread man, keep it going.

Can I request you to make a thread about Brazilians in Croatia, or perhaps Croatian Syrians?

My question is why was that dude, carmelino, redcarded? I sure hope it is not due to the posts in this thread, as I do not see anything in what he had wrote that is against TOS. Rather, I find his posts interesting and informative. Often, soccer and politcs do mix.....Mods, please PM me, I would like to know why a member was banned, and hope not it was due to a mod's own thick skin or prejudice.

he went to the portugal threard and due to his marks there being warned was redcarded

After longer and well planned punishment I am back again. Interesting is that I received infractions from Bosnia and Herzegovina fans and moderators. Maybe they collaborated with some other moderators.

Now we can turn to Bosnia and Herzegovina football league with SPECIAL accent on Croatian clubs, like always. After all Bosnia and Herzegovina national football team didn't achieved EURO 2012, like always. They were so close. 6-2 is almost equal and very intensive result. Maybe Zvjezdan Misimovic acted uo with another difficult injury like before. Who knows. Bosnia and Herzegovina is a nice mythe and mystery for any normal human being.

Zvjezdan Misimovic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zvjezdan_Misimović

So we must dedicate to Croatian clubs in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Recent results of Croatian football clubs in Bosnia and Herzegovina. After all these clubs are more interesting than others, especially Siroki Brijeg and Mostar Zrinjski, eternal threat and object of hatred for other nations in Bosnia and Herzegovina. GOSK Gabela - third Croatian club isn't playing so well.

Results: http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=bih/nationalleague/results.html

27/11/11

GOSK Gabela - Velez Mostar 0-0

Bad result for GOSK Gabela, after all Velez isn't on any football map in Europe today.

Olimpik Sarajevo - Siroki Brijeg 0-0

Olimpik or Olympique in normal world. Bad result for Siroki Brijeg. After all Olimpik is on lower position.

26/11/11

HSK Zrinjski Mostar - Rudar Prijedor 3-1

Rudar means mine, probably coal mine. Nice jos for Croatian club HSK Zrinjski Mostar.

Standings: http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=bih/nationalleague/standings.html

Siroki Brijeg - second position. We all expect their title. Why wait?
HSK Mostar Zrinjski - fifth position.
GOSK Gabela - 12th position.

Other clubs don't have to much importance.

Croatian celebration after Croatian victory against Turkey in Mostar - Croatian city.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=0GIlJfuSy2M

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSv1siSWdic&feature=related"]turska-hrvatska navijanje poslije utakmice u mostaru - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6eRW4rAwDQ&feature=related"]Turska-Hrvatska 0:3 Bakljada |11.11.2011| - YouTube[/ame]

Muslim fans of Zeljeznicar Sarajevo are burning Croatian flag:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3kvLcYs3y4&feature=related"]Muslimani pale hrvatsku zastavu - YouTube[/ame]

Mostar - Croatian city

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd549usbYek&feature=related"]MOSTAR JE HRVATSKI - YouTube[/ame]

You are one of the most biggest nationalist I've ever seen. I mean, it's already pretty strange that you think this way since there are NO Croatian clubs in Bosnia. Yes, there are Bosnian Croats but there are defenitely no Croatian clubs here in Bosnian. And 2, why make a thread out of this?

And this is coming from person who supports Zeljeznicar. Check out this video, supporters of Zeljeznicar are burning Croatian flag. Maybe this is one of commercials for Burn - energetic drink.

You are right, there is no Croatian clubs in Bosnia, but Herzegovina has three Croatian clubs. Cities Siroki Brijeg, Mostar and Capljina are from Herzegovina. After all 97-99% of people in West Herzegovina are Croats. Its a fact.

Croats were forced to escape from Bosnia, because of this Croats dont have Croatian clubs in Bosnia.

But in Bosnian city Vitez there are many Croatian celebrations. Nobody cant destroy this.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvjKqG8xRwA"]Austrija - Hrvatska u Vitezu - YouTube[/ame]

I made this thread because you "Bosniaks" on Bosnia and Herzegovina thread dont have anything about Mostar Zrinjski, Siroki Brijeg and GOSK Gabela. I think that second and fifth team deserve some attention on your thread.

I wonder why nobody wrote anything about these clubs? Only Zrinjski Mostar has a popular nickname on your thread Svinjski. Svinja means Pig. Thats all. Isnt this offensive nickname? This nickname describes your love toward Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Svinjski (Pigs) are Croats in your common opinion.

At least I have dignity to write about these clubs. After all nobody asked your opinion, I can write about any club that I like. This is not Bosnian forum, on Big Soccer they nurture democratic postulates. I dont know why Bosnia and Herzegovina fans come here? I havent wrote anything on Bosnia and Herzegovina thread. I respect your choice of clubs, you can also respect my three Croatian clubs that I respect in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

People who burn flags are pure example of nationalism, totalitarism and breaking of human rights and its insane to burn flags, this is alert for health institutions also - mental observation.

Just because someone loves his own country, flag, national anthem, coat of arms - he is a nationalist? At least Croats have their own flag, national anthem, coat of arms, long history, etc. I can write Bosnian national anthem if you like, I am very poetic.

You are free to post a thread about Zrinjski in the Bosnian thread...just don't say they are Croatian because they aren't. If the population in West Herzegovina is 98% Croat..doesn't mean whole Herzegovina is. Mostar has a muslim majority, so does Konjic. 2 of the biggest cities is populated by muslims. Fact.

If its free to open a thread about Siroki Brijeg or Zrinjski Mostar why isnt it opened so far? For example second teams in other normal countries have their own space on national threads: Barcelona, Manchester United, Hajduk Split, Cobreloa, Benfica or Sporting, etc. Only Bosnia and Herzegovina thread dont realize the importance to represent second team in their national league.

Also Siroki Brijeg has won this league two times (2004, 2006), three times runners up (2002, 2008, 2010), First League of Herzeg-Bosnia Champions - five times (during 90's), domestic cup (2007), domestic cup runners up (2005, 2006), played in qualifications for UEFA cups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NK_Široki_Brijeg

Zrinjski Mostar has won two times national league (2005, 2009).
Domestic cup winners 2008. They participated in UEFA cups, mostly qualifications.

I understand that they dont have great European results, but Zeljeznicar, Velez and other non-Croatian clubs in Bosnia and Herzegovina dont have any good result in recent years or past two decades.

But its strange for me and for every other person from any part of world to see only clubs that Bosnia and Herzegovina Muslims support.

And you are saying that I have nationalistic aspirations??? How would you call a person, or group of people who burn foreign flag??? Haters and nationalistic people who dont respect the values of foreign countries. Its insane to burn someones flag. Nations that nurture democratic values, human rights, equal society, non-violent measures, that nurture culture and prosperity dont do these acts of animalism.

After all many refugees that nurture Muslim religion live today in Croatia, they live very well there, have good occupations, they are also public persons, they are welcomed in any aspect of social aspect in Croatia and you burn there on stadiums Croatian flag, support Croatian opponents in any sport.

Croats dont even know when their neighbors play, they dont have gatherings in the bars, streets, squares just so that they could support opponents of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro. Croats support their own national teams, they dont hate their neighbors like you hate us.

Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Serbia dont have the same rights like Serbians and Muslim people from Bosnia and Herzegovina have in Croatia.

All minorities have their representatives in Croatian Parliament. On December 4th, 2011. there will be elections for Parliament.

In Bosnia and Herzegovina there are always some dirty games during elections and Croats as smallest nation suffer the most.

Zrinjski Mostar, Siroki Brijeg and GOSK Gabela are Croatian clubs. Croatian clubs from Croatia, like Hajduk Split, Dinamo Zagreb, etc. play friendly matches against these teams. For example they cant play friendly matches against Zeljeznicar, Olimpik, Velez etc.

People from West Herzegovina Canton and Herzegovina - Neretva Canton mostly have dual citizenship. Presidents, coaches and majority of players from these clubs have Croatian heritage. They live there many centuries, borders were changed, people left there, because they call this region as their home.

26 Croatian players were invited against these two matches against Turkey.
12 of them have Bosnia and Herzegovina origins.
They didnt wanted to play for Bosnia and Herzegovina. Because they are not welcomed there in Football Federation. Only 2,3 players with Croatian heritage play for Bosnia and Herzegovina today, because they dont have enough quality for Croatian NT.

For example Boris Pandza, player from West Herzegovina had a very bad shape in Hajduk Split and fans always thought that he is a anti-talent.

Sasa Papac is also Croatian player. Only two players in Bosnia and Herzegovina national team that have Croatian heritage. Nobody from club Siroki Brijeg or Mostar Zrinjski did not receive any invitation.

Coach rather invited Zlatan Muslimovic even though he doesnt have any club. They rather call players from second or third national leagues abroad, like: Dynamo Dresden, or some almost unknown clubs, like: Cracovia, Krasnodar, Panserraikos, Gangwon, Mes Sarcheshmeh, Mersin İdmanyurdu, etc.

Or they call players from other clubs from Bosnia and Herzegovina, like Celik Zenica, Sarajevo, also they like to call players from Turkish national league, even though these clubs dont include Galatasaray, Trabzonspor, Fenerbahce or Besiktas. They would rather call players from some exotic countries, as long they are not from Croatian clubs: Siroki Brijeg or Zrinjski Mostar. I understand why nobody calls players from GOSK Gabela, they are on 12 position. You would say the same if Siroki Brijeg or Zrinjski Mostar lives on these 12,13 positions. But now you cant say that every player has equal chances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_national_football_team

For example Sarajevo is on third position, Celik Zenica is on seventh position. Siroki Brijeg has better position than Sarajevo and Celik Zenica and Mostar Zrinjski has better position than Celik Zenica, but these players do not receive any call-ups.

http://www.fifa.com/associations/association=bih/nationalleague/standings.html

For any objective observer this situation is very strange. In this situation i see nationalsim and seperatism, dividing players on their heritage, two faced policy, where you all talk about Bosnia and Herzegovina unity, Bosnian nationality, but in practice I see that everything is different.

Demographics in Konjic and Mostar:

Its interesting how you know very good which cities have Muslim majority. We can all conclude that you like to count blood cells. People who are well informed about % in some cities seperate people and look on their heritage. And you like to say: "We are all Bosnians and Herzegovians."

Bosnia and Herzegovina had last census in 1991. 20 years passed since the last census.

In 1991. Muslims had 54.27%, Croats had 26.23% and Serbians had 15.08%. Also Yugoslavs had 3.09%.

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjic

But this doesnt mean that Croats or Serbs should live without any human rights in this city.

City of Konjic has a weird demographics:

Croats: 1991: 3.036 (22,11%), 1981: 2.566 (22,22%), 1971: 2.925 (30,51%)

Muslims: 1991: 6.697 (48,77%), 1981: 4.947 (42,84%) 1971: 4.316 (45,03%)

Croats wont exist anymore in this city because of bad policy against Croats.

Konjic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjic

About Mostar you are NOT telling the truth. I dont know why, hatred, nationalism?

Mostar is the city with the largest population of Croats in Bosnia-Herzegovina. It has estimated population of 105,448. As many other Bosnian/Herzegovinian cities, its demographic profile was significantly altered after the 1992-1995 Bosnian war. The last demographics research was conducted in 1991 and its results were as follows:

Croats - 53,325 (42.3%)
Bosniak Muslims - 33,281 (26.4%)
Serbs - 23,909 (19.0%)
Yugoslavs - 12,654 (10.0%)
Others - 2,925 (2.3%)
Total - 126,066

Today only unofficial estimates on demografic structure exist. According to the official data of the local elections 2008, among 6 city election districts, three western ones (Croatian-majority) have 53 917 registered voters, and those three on the east (Bosniak majority) have 34 712 voters. The Serbs of Mostar amounted to approximately 20% of the population at the outbreak of the Bosnian War in 1992, during which a majority of them left or were forced to leave. Until today, very few Serbs have returned.

Somebody told you that Mostar has a Muslim majority and you accepted this and you probably think that Mostar is a Muslim city. But no, Mostar was always Croatian city it has Croatian majority, like you see here.

Its silly to talk when both sides arent informed very well and when they decline obvious truths. It would be nice to see that Muslims accept Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina as constitutional nation, as entity, but you would rather see Croats as a minority in every city in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Its sad, mostly for you and your artifical nation.

How could I expect any academic knowledge from a person who has nickname: Sarajevo Beer?

If Muslims have Sarajevo, why they want also Mostar? Selfish gesture like always.

Sarajevo demographics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sarajevo

Croats always suffered in this city. In 1921 year Croats were second nation in Sarajevo with 27.3% and in 1991 Croats had only 6.70%. Extraordinary demographic policy.

If Muslims have Sarajevo, why they want also Mostar? Selfish gesture like always.

If you have your own country then why bother someone else?

Plus, we have East-Mostar and you have West.

East= Stari Most and more Ottoman remainings
West=Never restored buildings left to rot after the war

this is bunch of bs bosnia was never christian nation we were bogumils and that was main reason when crusaders were going to middle east pope at that time told them to also attack bosnia because bosnias refuse to believe the way christians do. and another think bosnia was once part of croatia but most recently 10-15 century dalmacia( part of croatia) exept for dubrovnik iwas part of bosnia and that is why people from dalmacia like bosnia more then people from other parts of croatia

Oldest catholic archbishop area was founded before 1022. years in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Croats settled majority of Bosnia and Herzegovina like in Croatia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholicism_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

You can see also Croatian version. But in English version is also described.

Christianity was introduced into Bosnia and Herzegovina from Salona at a very early date. Many of the dioceses which were suffragans of the Archdiocese of Salona in the 6th century must be sought within the present limits of Bosnia and Herzegovina. This is especially true of the Bishopric of Bistue (Bestoeensis ecclesia) which was situated in the heart of the upper part of the present Bosnia.

So, 6th century Christianity came in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Bogumils were religious sect. Croats were the first rulers of Bosnia and Herzegovina, thats why Croats settled there and position of the border was changed during centuries. But Croats stayed there.

Bogumilsm was founded in 10th century somewhere in Bulgaria, much later than Christianity in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogomilism

They wanted early Christianity. But Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina cant say that they belong 100% to Bogumil heritage, because of Ottoman Empire and their way of converting Christians. I agree that Bogumils existed, but they werent majority.

You can read this article. Croats came in Bosnia and H. in 6,7 century. Bogumils never existed in that period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croats_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

They accepted Christianity and develop their own culture and art, they form their own political institutions and soon their own kingdom.

Croats didnt wanted to have influences from exterior.

Over the centuries Croatia saw its land shrink as the Ottoman Turks invaded Europe, and occupied Bosnia and much of present day Croatia for centuries to come. Many Croats living in Bosnia converted to Islam during this time period, and their numbers in areas shrank as many fled from fear of conversion and persecution, as the Christian folk were mistreated as low-grade citizens. The region henceforth became known as "Turkish Croatia" in Croatian literature.

References for this later section:

^ a b Tanner, Marcus (1997) Croatia: A Nation Forged in War.
^ Bove; Duhan-Kaplan, (1995) p. 293

This is western literature, like you all like to see, there isnt any Croatian conspiracy.

Since state administration was very unorganized and since national conscience was very strong among Christian population, Ottoman Empire lost control over Bosnia and Herzegovina. On June 19, 1875 Catholic Croats, led by Don Ivan Musić, revolted because of high taxes in West Herzegovina. Soon after, Orthodox population also revolted in East Herzegovina, which led to Herzegovina Uprising. Turks were unable to defeat rebels, so Serbia and Montenegro used their weakness and attacked Ottoman Empire in 1876, soon Russian Empire done the same. Turks lost the war in 1878, and this resulted with over 150,000 Croatian refugees who went in Croatia. After that, after Congress of Berlin was held in same year, Bosnia and Herzegovina got new ruler, Austria-Hungary.

Its interesting to see how only Christian territories had high taxes. This was clever idea, give them high taxes, they wont be able to pay and they would convert on Islam. As you can see Croats rather payed higher taxes.

And you cant say that Croats are nationalists. They were always under economical, religious, linguistic, territorial pressure. You must rise when someone is trying to take your heritage away.

Ethnic totals and percentages

Year/Population Croats % Total BiH Population
1879 209,391 18.08% 1,158,164
1885 265,788 19.88% 1,336,091
1895 334,142 21.31% 1,361,868
1910 434,061 22.87% 1,898,044
1921 444,308 23.50% 1,890,440
1931 547,949 23.58% 2,323,555
1948 614,123 23.93% 2,565,277
1953 654,229 22.97% 2,847,790
1961 711,666 21.71% 3,277,948
1971 772,491 20.62% 3,746,111
1981 758,140 18.39% 4,124.008
1991 760,852 17.38% 4,377,053

After 1971 Croats wanted to leave from country that declined their heritage.

Prior the war in 1991, Croats made up 17.3% of the population, less than in previous years. From 1971 to 1991, the Croat percentage fell due to emigration into Croatia and lands of Western Europe. This fact should be taken into account for any estimation, regional or for Bosnia and Herzegovina as a whole. Nevertheless, the fall in population percentage is only absent in western Herzegovina municipalities where Croats account for more than 98% of population.

The majority of Croats live in Western Herzegovina, Western Bosnia, Central Bosnia and Posavina (BiH Croats 1991). The war saw a large scale of ethnic cleansing and the migration of populations on all sides. Municipalities in which Croats are the majority in Bosnia and Herzegovina today: Mostar, Stolac, Ravno, Čapljina, Neum, Čitluk, Grude, Kiseljak, Kreševo, Livno, Ljubuški, Kupres, Dobretići, Odžak, Domaljevac-Šamac, Orašje, Posušje, Prozor-Rama, Široki Brijeg, Tomislavgrad, Vitez, Žepče, Usora, Novi Travnik and Busovača.

Can you tell me in which period of Bosnian history belonged Dubrovnik, because I cant find your words??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubrovnik

Dubrovnik was Dubrovnik Republic or Ragusa. I cant even find in Croatian language that Dubrovnik was part of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

People from Dalmatia like Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina. You really like to forge history? Is this your hobby or life mission?

Dubrovnik - part of Bosnia.

So, I have the right to say Croatian clubs in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Croats were there since 7th century and they still live there.

I think that Bosnian league has winter break? Because of Christmas Eve, Christmas and New Year probably.

Back to politics and idiotic historical daydreaming. I'll be sure to report this once again.

Merry Christmas..Bog i Hrvati..