Cristiano Ronaldo-the most overrated player of all time?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Lewa9, Feb 24, 2014.

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  1. sinsisfinafuns munnawhhhh

    Mar 19, 2014
    Club:
    Remo
    And this is why you should never do drugs, kids. You might turn out like Jome here.
     
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    His main competitors surely did... Ullrich, Beloki, Contador, Mancebo etc... It is known that Indurain (Spain), Riis (Denmark, prepared by Deutsche Telekom though), Pantani (Italy), Contador (Spain) and Ullrich (Germany) all recorded higher power outputs than Armstrong at his very peak. Cannot find an English graph right now but these numbers speak for themselves
    [​IMG]

    News today is that he will testify under oath by the way. Among other things, also concerning his doctors:
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...g-named-names-written-answers-doping/7532825/
     
    msioux75 repped this.
  3. Skorenzy

    Skorenzy Member

    Dec 30, 2011
    @PuckVanHeel First off, my apologies for the long delay in my response. One of the reasons I don't post much here and prefer to browse around just reading people's opinions is because it's often too time-consuming for my taste when one gets caught up in such debates. Nevertheless I will attempt to adress your reply in the best way possible since I've had some time.


    No. You'll find that I described it as "partly yet significantly" of his making due to his poor performances in a group they were the top seeds in and which frankly was one of the weakest groups in the UEFA qualifying zone, in my opinion. It's certainly a great deal his responsibility and his burden given that we're discussing a player who is vying for/has already attained all-time status. And he's playing for a NT that has reached at least the knock-out stage of every major tournament in the past decade (since he made his debut), including a EC Final and Semi-Final and a WC Semi-Final. They've also consistently been ranked top 10 in the FIFA rankings on a yearly basis since 2004 (with exception of 2008), so I wouldn't call it unreasonable to expect them to top their qualifying group, and especially this one.

    You bring up a fair point, which incidentally highlights my criticism of him even further, that he did in fact finish among the top scorers of the UEFA zone, though not 2nd as you claim, but in fact joint 3rd. Van Persie 11, Dzeko 10, then Cristiano on 8 tied with Ibra, Özil and Ibisevic. The criticism being that he scored half of these goals after the regular group phase had finished with them in 2nd place and closed off the period which was taken into account for the seeding in the WC draw (based on FIFA rankings of October 2013; play-offs took place in November and are not incl. because it would give these NTs an unfair advantage, or so FIFA's explanation goes anyway).

    Obviously his goals in the play-offs v Sweden were invaluable and decisive in eventually qualifying Portugal to the WC, so this is not the point of criticism in itself. What it demonstrates to me though is that he and his team were capable of "better" when it really mattered, so why not before against weaker opponents? Furthermore, before the play-offs he had scored two goals less than Postiga and was level with the centre-back Bruno Alves. He did come through magnificently in the clutch (and, on a sidenote, João Moutinho as well), as has become a habit for Portugal in recent years when they've bottled the direct route and qualified through play-offs, but had they avoided the need for play-offs in the first place then there was a real chance they could've been a top seed for the WC. But then you question the usefulness of being in Pot 1, so I'll move on to that...


    So it's irrelevant that I pointed out Portugal might've had an easier group had they been in Pot 1, because... there are Pot 1 countries that have gotten "fairly easy groups and easy routes to the semi-finals"? What the actual ********? Maybe I'm totally misunderstanding your point in the bold, but that looks like the strangest contradiction I've seen for a while... in the same sentence no less. Not only that, but you then give 3 (arguably even 4) examples of the benefit Portugal could've had from finishing in Pot 1. If they hadn't "allowed" the likes of Belgium, Colombia or Switzerland (the arguable one, because of France) to usurp their position, then they could've had an easier group just like them. Also, while indeed I agree that we can reasonably speculate that Argentina's path will be easier than Portugal's, it remains to be said that Arg's strongest possible opponents are of a different calibre to Portugal's. Argentina could potentially face France in R16 and then Germany/Portugal in QF. Portugal has Belgium/Russia and then Arg/France at worst.


    Yes, Argentina were crap. They were close to missing out, but eventually So basically it comes down to this, that your assertion is countries like Arg get different breaks from a country like Portugal? Possible for sure. In that case? You tell me. Which countries were the ones complaining about the fact that they weren't among the top seeds in 2006 despite being ranked #2 and #3 at the time? FIFA attributed the seeding changes for 2010 to the criticism it received for that situation (make of that what you will). FIFA's biggest issue is their lack of transparency, which, while of course suspicious, doesn't automatically mean that certain correlations have become causations. The seeding criteria were changed for 2006 as well, and before that in 1990, 1994 and 1998, which was maybe less of a change, but a significant difference nonetheless and one that as it happens ensured the Netherlands were in Pot 1 for '98 where under '94 regs they wouldn't have been as I understand it. (Coincidentally, my country missed out on Pot 1 because of you guys Puck! Ironically we then landed in the same group).

    I would be very interested in your source for that assertion (in bold) though. I looked at the calculation methods myself and I came up with nothing even close to that. Now I'm not at all a math whiz, so it's very possible I've screwed up somewhere, but as far as my math and understanding of it goes, this is my effort...

    2006 seeding criteria: average pts based on rank in two previous WCs (1:2 ratio) + average pts based on FIFA rank at three given dates (equal ratio). By that formula I came up with this "Pot 1" for 2010.

    South Africa (host)
    Germany (59.4)
    Brazil (59.3)
    Italy (56.6)
    Spain (56.3)
    Argentina (51.0)
    England (49.6)
    Portugal (48.3)


    Compare to the actual Pot 1, simply based on the FIFA rankings of October 2009:

    South Africa (host)
    Brazil (1)
    Spain (2)
    Netherlands (3)
    Italy (4)
    Germany (5)
    Argentina (6)
    England (7)

    Maybe I've overlooked something for the FIFA rankings under '06 regs, because I did spot some inconsistencies in the rank/pts given in that and previous WCs... I would very much appreciate it if you could point out your source for those calculations to me, so as to check where I (or they) went wrong!


    They have as much to do with each other as your comment on Arg/Pt has with the topic of this thread, (not so) incidentally. They're both peripheral arguments to take the perception of the player away from his own abilities and responsibilities and into the hands of an external entity. Mine was sarcastic, yours was, I'm guessing, not so much.
     
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  4. raviept

    raviept Member

    Jun 11, 2010
    Braga
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    #404 raviept, Apr 11, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
    Skorenzy, I watched Portugal's qualifiers since 98 and it's common for Portugal to choke against weaker sides. The only exceptions were 2002 and 2006. The problem really seems to be lack of concentration, especially in the midfield and defense. It's the only explanation for a result like the 4-4 against Cyprus. Ronaldo used to underperform before 2011. But then Bento came and he started exploring Ronaldo's strengths better. Since then, he was decisive in a number of matches, including the qualifiers. Recently, he was decisive against Northern Ireland for instance. I wouldn't put too much weight on the qualifiers when assessing Ronaldo's performances, especially given his performances at the club level. Not that I am saying that his national record has been great.
     
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I don't want to start a heated argument but I disagree with this. If the subject is whether C. Ronaldo is overrated, then the opposition faced (vs. his peers) does matter.
    If then it's said that 'thanks to Ronaldo' Portugal is in a lower pot than necessary, that is in itself true, but I feel that even a 'pot 1' status doesn't guarantee an easier group at all (certainly not as easy as Colombia, Switzerland, Argentina to name a few). And because the method changes every time (completely agree about lack of transparency) bad performing countries in the past did not suffer the same fate.

    RE Belgium unlucky their seeding: completely agree they were unlucky in 1990, 1994 and 1998.

    IMO, this is a bit too simple. You yourself has said too that C. Ronaldo (or Suarez for that matter) his status will depend on further achievements and performances. It's not only based on innate abilities and skills. Therefore, external factors do matter, even though it might be a weak excuse.
     
  6. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes, Maradona's weight tended to fluctuate - gaining weight when he was not working hard in training. At WC86 he looks like a classical sculpture though:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #407 PuckVanHeel, Apr 11, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
    Yes, you misunderstand me quite clearly.

    What I said there is how some countries (like Argentina) have even for a 'pot 1' country a very easy group (compared with other 'pot 1' countries).
    To put it differently, there are other 'pot 1' countries (Uruguay, Spain for ex.) with a much harder group as 'pot 4' countries (France for ex.).
    So even in the case C. Ronaldo had shot Portugal to 'pot 1' status, I doubt whether that had avoided tough draws.
    Agree he could have done better, but the idea that he could have avoided the tough draw he faces remains to be seen.

    Why this final sentence by the way, did I attack you somewhere? It's just that club performances have little bearing on the NT achievements and/or the draw.
     
  8. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    and some kids are naturally born a troll as your are - no drug required - LOL
     
  9. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    How do you put an avatar on? It always says the image is too big for me, even if I reduce the size down to a grain of sand
     
  10. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Reduce the image and save it as a new file, that should work.
     
  11. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany
    #411 621380, Apr 15, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
    explain me why bayern munich wasnt one of the southern region clubs choosen for the bundesliga???...neudecker allready the club president..where was his power you suggest???....1860 munich choosen above bayern???....5 southern clubs choosen above bayern munich.....is this power?? ...why players like peter grosser and willy giesemann left the club bayern , joining bundesliga club 1860 munich and hamburg....the names of this players was bigger than the names of 18 years old sepp maier and dieter brenninger for sure where
    i think its not at all that the talents united have joined bayern munich...i allready told you both storys about beckenbauer and gerd müller.beckenbauer has joined bayern 1958 and gerd müller has joined bayern 1964...what has hindered nürnberg to sign gerd müller??? why was the tranfer sum finally only 4.200 german mark for him.....the limit transfer sum for germans in germany for the new created bundesliga was 50000 german mark.....pre bundesliga, the transfer sum was lower than 50000 german mark i think .... 10000-15000 german mark...

    how high was the transfer sum for ajax amsterdam to sign johan crujff a first division contract him coming from the own ajax youth 1964??

    neudecker and cajkowski came 1962...however bayern munichs oberliga ranking season 1962/63 wasnt better than the ranking of the season 1961/62....how do you explain that?? why bayern munich wasnt choosen to be one of the clubs for the first divison, the new created bundesliga...16 clubs , but no bayern munich..where was the power of the club ????..bayern muniches money for sales was 800000 german mark 1962...the southern oberliga was strong along with the west agreed..however from the oberliga south,nürnberg,stuttgart,karlsruhe,frankfurt and finally 1860 munich was choosen for the bundesliga...
    important dfb criterias of some criterias was the club results of the last decade and the result of the season 1962/63.....
    so what has bayern munich to offer oberliga seasons 1951/52-1962/63??

    oberliga title-zero
    runner up - zero (this means in 12 seasons bayern munich has not reached the endround for the german championship)...this means bayern munich technical wasnt a top 8 club in germany in this timespan per season..

    oberliga south champions and runner ups 1951/52-1962/63

    1952....1. stuttgart..2.nürnberg
    1953....1.frankfurt..2.stuttgart
    1954....1.stuttgart..2.frankfurt
    1955....1.offenbach..2. reutlingen.(bayern worst ranked and relegated next lower leaque)
    1956....1.karlsruhe..2 stuttgart (bayern promoted back in the oberliga, bayern runner up in the lower leaque)
    1957....1.nürnberg..2.offenbach
    1958....1.karlsruhe..2.nürnberg
    1959....1.frankfurt..2.offenbach
    1960....1.karlsruhe..2.offenbach
    1961....1.nürnberg..2.frankfurt
    1962....1.nürnberg..2.frankfurt
    1963....1.1860 munich,.2.nürnberg

    offenbach wasnt choosen for the new created bundeliga too but overal had far better rankings counting this 12 seasons than bayern munich..offenbach never worster than ranking 7th..reached the endround of the german championship 4 times...(1 times champion,3 times runner up,twice 3th ranked,twice 4th ranked

    offenbach results against bayern munich in this 12 seasons.
    offenbach...15 wins,5 draws,2 defeats...
    not counting the new creted regionaleaque south season 1963/64 where bayern munich was runner up and offenbach was third ranked,both behind almighty club hessen kassel (hessen kassel who??)...where was the power of neudecker and cajkowski again?? no title again..however promoted to play the bundsliga playoffs against st.pauli,tasmania berlin and neunkirchen.

    playoffs result..
    1. neunkirchen (promoted)
    2.bayern
    3.tasmania berlin
    4.st pauli.
    where was the power of bayern munich against this clubs??the team,the president and cajkowski?
    1:1 draw and 3:0 defeat against tasmania
    1:0 win and 2:0 defeat against neunkirchen
    bayern munichs squad starters:
    sepp maier,kunstwadl,kupferschmidt,brenninger,ohlhauser,beckenbauer,erhard....


    bayern munich became a force with succes..and a big part was gerd müller joining te team season 1964/65..
    1966/67 bayern has played the maxium of games...34 bundsliga games ,6 german cup games and 9 european cup games..inclusive friendly games 86 games total..the 4 million german mark sum isnt surprising....however the efective win sum was about only 100000-120000 german mark...the ticket sales of the club in bundesliga games 1966/67 was worster than season 1965/66.....

    your ajax team 1966/67 has played only 3-4 ofiziel games lesser than bayern munich and won the double..so the situation of the club and the quality of his players was very high to same season...
    how much was the turnover of ajax this season?? in 3 european cup games combinated at home 150000 ticketsales alone??
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #412 PuckVanHeel, Apr 15, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
    If you don't mind I stop it here because I did not say something about Neudecker his power (but obviously smart with a long term strategy). You can read it back, there are no allusions to it. I also don't understand why you make a comparison with 1960s Ajax.

    The core of the issue is that you called the potential signing of Pelé in 1967 an "extremely poor suggestion" (with the Italian and Spanish borders completely closed). In return I tried to substantiate why it wasn't as poor as you make it out to be. For example, having an A-class manager at the zenith of his career, A-class technical director, and I also showed you some Dutch newspapers that already called them back in August 1966 the "Greatest sportsclub in West Germany" http://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd:010869477:mpeg21:a0189 ; here in a 1967 'Der Spiegel' article they are called "the greatest German club" too http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-46409363.html). They were past 1860 in terms of budget and membership by 1966. That's all.
     
  13. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany
    really....????

    this was your answer of a post from james....

    puckvanheel:
    Yet Bayern Munich was among the select European clubs who could afford to sign Pelé back in 1967, for a potential world record fee (i.e. the investigation of this move is indicative for spending power).
    -----------------------------
    you didnt say a word about italian and spanish border closed first ....only later in a other post (smart move)

    this is was i wrote to you in my first post:(the important criteria)
    this is a extremly poor suggestion...maybe only with a BANKCREDIT bayern can sign pele...this can ajax and ton of others clubs too...

    you did try...well....what???
    how much for you is a WORLDRECORD FEE for pele????????1967 pele was 27 years old....i dont think he join bayern munich for peanuts...?? right???

    one of the - der spiegel- link you postet in your last post point out franz beckenbauer got a 2 million german mark offer from inter mailand to sign him....transfer fees,salary...italy has closed the border and no deal...this was the worth mailand was to pay for beckenbauer 1966.....

    its pretty irrelevant bayern munich 1967 became the richest club in germany with some some few 100000 german mark more money than 2-3 other german clubs for the first time in club history.......you ignore some important factors ....

    show me a link where confirm bayern munich has a konto with some million mark + to sign expansive foreign stars 1967...???

    4 million german mark for the season 1966/67 was the turn over of bayern munich and ONLY ABOUT 100000 german mark was a EFFECTIVE win for the season..(read the spiegel link you have postet)..
    so TELL ME HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR MUNICH TO SIGN PELE WITH A POTENTIAL WORLDRECORD FEE...???
    WITHOUT A BANKCREDIT???

    OR:
    SELLING BECKENBAUER FOR A POTENTIAL WORLDRECORD FEE TO A OTHER EUROPEAN SELECTED TEAM TO GET THE MONEY TO SIGN PELE?? is this the alternative??

    season 1966/67

    400000 german mark from members (10% )
    400000 german mark from ticket sales europeancup final and german cup final (10%)
    1.8-1,9- million german mark ..17 bundesliga home games ticket sales (about 45-47,5%)
    300000 (about) german mark .4 german cup games ticket sales (about 7,5%)
    500000 (about) german mark ..4 european cup games ticket sales. (about 12,5 %)..
    550000 german mark from friendly games.. ect....


    and read careful again the spiegel link from 1967 where neudecker or was it schwan ?point out bayern munich NEED european cup games and friendly games to even out payments ..fees ect.ect..ect..


    you dont understand why i mention ajax??

    well....maybe??? ajax was one of the selected teams in europe where had the power to sign pele for a potential worldrecord fee 1967???

    why you think i have asked you to tell me the finaciel power of ajax 1966/67 season??

    oe are you afraid for a response??
     
  14. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    It was kinda well known that Real, Inter, AC Milan (and few others) ... tried to get Pele to Europe (from 62 to 65)
    But I do not recall of any teams from German leagues offers to Santos .. I am not sure of the reason (money?)
     
  15. Dr. Know

    Dr. Know Member+

    Dec 5, 2005
    Macondo
    You are all over the place. You use stats to back up your arguments especially for Ronaldo yet in other cases they don't matter.
     
  16. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Yes but I never hold the knife by the blade LOL (some of you do ...)
     
  17. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany

    i think you must learn a lot about the situation in germany in the 60s......it was in big parts still stoneaged.....the new created bundesliga 1963 has made the situation better but still far away from countries like spain,italy,england and others...the german dfb was in part conservative with his laws and feared the sell out of the best german players to italy,spain and others...if you check the early bundesliga years there wasnt much foreigners...some came from yugoslavia or austria ect....this has changed in the 70s where the fees to sign players was more or lesser unlimited,,the salary of players is increased a lot, bayern got the new olympia stadion for homegames 1972 where was extremly important the club..bayern and gladbach became a force ..back.in the 60s (1964-1970)every year there was a new german champion and no clear favorite.....

    i think you must stop a bit too to suggest bayern munich was allways a international topclub..bayern was founded 1900 and the only titles was 1 german championship 1932 and 1 german cup win 1957.......

    we must analyze a bit more whats happend...i was trying to do my job with some posts...puck used to be in part a cherrypicker in my opinion ....


    bayern munich winning the european cup winners cup 1966/67 was seen back in this days to be a suprise...rapid wien quarterfinal and glasgow rangers final was seen to be favorite against munich..

    if you check the situation bayern munich 1966/67 european cup , the team was nearly eliminated in the first and second round against teams tatran presov and shamrock rovers and nearly eliminated in the first round too german cup in berlin against hertha....so the situation of sucess and failure was still very small..

    using some publications...

    tatran presov-bayern 1:1...good result for munich..

    bayern munich-tatran presov 3:2...very late in minute 71 and 72 gerd müller has scored 2 goals for a 3:1 lead....presov has answered with a goal in minute 84 and hit the bar with a shot .a shaky bayern defensive survived the game...gerd müller in minute 86 has blocked a shot on the own goaline where has saved finally bayern munich...

    rovers-bayern 1:1..good result for munich

    bayern rovers 3:2......bayern lead 2:0(brenninger,ohlhauser) and some goalchances wasted.. rovers has answered in minute 49 with a shot against the post and bayern munichs defensive got nervous.. rovers first goal was deflected from beckenbauer in minute 55, 3 minutes later another goal for the rovers...advantage rovers (2:2).. .. in minute 86,( bayern munich 4 minutes away to be eliminated.)...gerd müller scored the golden goal gamewinner from a ohlhauser pass....

    in both games combinated against presov and rovers the ticket sales was only 25000...this is very low..
    --

    first round german cup against hertha in berlin.. brenninger has scored in minute 24 the 1:0 for munich..hertha responded in minute 64 (werner ipta) 1:1....30 minutes extratime needed..werner ipta has scored the 2:1 for hertha in minute 94....this was the time gerd müller has saved bayern munich again...he suffered a injury in extratime and still find a way few minutes later to turn this game in 3 minutes with 2 goals.....scored munichs final 2 goals in minute 110 and minute 113..bayern won 3:2..


    so again...the diffrense between sucess and no sucess sometimes is very small....
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Pelé has regularly talked about that in the past 20 years...

    A very recent one:
    http://www.tz.de/sport/fc-bayern/weltstar-pel-verraet-sky-ich-hatte-angebot-bayern-2506916.html
    http://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de...ern.881b96f7-ec57-4af1-877d-ce18ffc370c5.html

    That made me really curious and guess what, I indeed managed to find it in old magazines too. Also in the digital archives. However, Pelé his comment "the most tangible/concrete offer" - more tangible than Italian offers - might be a stretch.

    I hope 'Müller-fan' will understand where I'm coming from. 'Müller-fan' is indeed right that such move would have been co-financed by banks and wealthy supporters.
     
  19. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany
    #419 621380, Apr 19, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014

    i knows very well where you come from puck and your mission ....every bigger club in the world can offer pele a contract with help of bankcredits......this is the point i have talked about....no??? you didnt cared.. you have cherrypicked out bayern munich..that was your mission....i knows very well why...bayern fan...

    the most concrete offer came from bayern munich....so pele..... seriously i must laugh out loud to hear that...this sounds more like a april joke....how much was the offer .......???10000 german mark, 100000 german mark, 1million german mark??why is there a mystery about that??

    in what year is that happend mister pele and the offer from bayern president endler pele talk about??....1958, 1959 or 1961-1962??.or 1966 the article suggest??? mister president endler was president ONLY up to 1962..in fact neudecker became president early 1962 ...the turnover in this years for munich was under 1 million german marks...it was still oberliga days in germany......1962 the turnover was 800000 german mark and the club never won anything in this decade (minus german cup 1957)....blackmarked money for pele??? the club bayern munich was fined season 1957/58 and 4 points reduced for paying 24000 german mark to players over the dfb limit..but thats only 24000 german mark.....so how much is a potentional record fee for pele?.bayern fan puck?uwe seeler became a offer from mailand 1960 or 1961 for over 1 million german mark...seeler said no for private reasons..


    the funny thing is too.. peter grosser and willi giesemann left the club bayern munich pre bundesliga 1963 for the reason munich was not choosen for the new created bundesliga and obviously bayern wasnt possible to hold this decent players??both are no pele and no money to hold this players??..and the saletickets in regionaliga is lower than in bundesliga too

    iam sorry puck......i dont buy much in this story of pele to be high serious..
     
    Pipiolo repped this.
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Indeed. Exactly what I think. Seems that it wasn't so poor a suggestion after all.

    I refer back to James his original post and my response (which you called "an extremely poor suggestion")
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...ayer-of-all-time.2001056/page-9#post-29869352
    James was talking about Bayern being owned by Dortmund and 'Anderlach' (what?) in terms of club size.

    You've said that they were by 1967 the (I quote) "richest club in germany." And by the way at that time also one of less-than-a-handful without debts (unlike the vast majority of West German clubs at that time).

    Bankcredits or a sugar daddy (which Pelé hinted to).
     
  21. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany
    here is a spiegel link from march 1966.....

    http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-46266095.html

    obviously roland endler was a friend of pele rreading this article...he has often promoted games with pele here in germany.....

    however the spiegel article mention the highest foreign offer pele ever got up to 1966....the article use german mark and no $....5 million german is mentioned and pele allready was a 5 million german mark millionäre.....
     
  22. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany
    it was a good choice for bayern munich not making debts like others....this is healthy football politic too....its no surprise bayern munich was the YOUNGEST team 1963-1968....a good portion clubs made errors in the 60s and the conservative german dfb laws in the 60s wasnt a help too for many german clubs...look whats happend to nürnberg 1967/68....winning the german championship and ticketsales of 676000 (thats about 3.3 million german mark) for 17 bundesliga games season 1967/68 ..nearly twice so much than bayern munich same season in 17 bundesliga games (369000 ticket sales)...and nürnberg relegated 12 month later in the regionaliga......
     
  23. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #423 JamesBH11, Apr 19, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
    Hey did I ever say so? I acknowledge you know (of course) more about your country clubs then us but I NEVER said so (at least not in the context of 60-70s ) OK?

    I in fact agree with you that (never recalled) any Germany clubs tempted to lure Pele in early 60s, as many teams from Italy, Spain and France ... back then (NOTE I even put a ? next to money )

    Now, I do not know if you have any "agenda" to call Germany clubs in those days as "stoneaged"? (which is very exaggerated) - In fact Germany crowned WC in 54, and were very strong from 66, 70 and even won 74.

    I would NOT even call Hungary league or Uruguay leagues back then as "stone aged" LOL
     
  24. 621380

    621380 Member

    Feb 21, 2004
    germany
    i mean stoneaged was the salary of the german players and the limited sign fees in germany in opossition of other countries...in many other countries the situation was definitiv better for players.... the german dfb laws about that was very conservative up to the mid 60s..........most players in germany was forced to have jobs......
    without a completed -berufsausbildung(jobtraining)- it wasnt allowed to join the first team of bayern munich in the 60s...one example too how diffrent the situation was in germany....olso the parents of beckenbauer,maier,müller,schwarzenbeck,nafizger and brenninger have signed the the first team contracts with bayern munich .this players have not turned age 20-21 in this days..all players was only 18 years old...i dont know the situation and laws in other countries back in this days...
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Aren't those laws meant to prevent enormous debts and risky balance sheets?

    What was the transfer cap? Was it for domestic transfers only? Or also international signings? A few posts back you mentioned a limit of 100000 D-Mark but I know that is not correct.

    Can you also tell where to find the detailed finance figures you mentioned below?
    Agree; was just to point out that they were both the richest (you said so) and followed a sustainable policy (in that era, at least).
     

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