Oh joy, making string assumptions in completely wrong way. I only provided the Ballon d'Or and Onze d'Or to give an benchmark for the ineligible players. I said he was eligible from the 82-83 season on-wards, and somehow you mistake this meaning that Onze d'Or is seasonal? Holy hell.
Please quote me on that, or you just exposed yourself as a liar. You also failed to continue your argument after:
If I am not wrong you were not even born yet at that time right? j/k Let me give you a friendly reminder: What you THINK you know about Messi now = multiplied by 5 times = what Vegan knew about Maradona. Actually Maradona was a very strong candidate to win in those years, sharing with Zico. 79 and 80 Maradona 81 and 82 Zico
Your argument is not what I asked for. I specifically asked you who was widely considered as the premier player in the game between 1979-1982? The polls you mentioned were not eligible for South American players. So it does not answer my question. I repeat: Based on repute, who was hailed as the greatest player in the world between 1979-1982? Not the greatest European player...But the best world player. Do you know?
And I already provided that. I showcased the collective opinion of experts, and provided argument why Maradona would've never been in contention against those, if he were eligible.
Of course, that's clear, but in the comparison you can't prove a superiority of the elected in Europe. Keegan 1979 and Rummenigge 1980 weren't exactly top winning performances of all-time and it's arguable the comparison with the young Maradona in both years in my opinion.
I am not asking for your argument or how you interpreted the situation at that time. I'm simply asking who was widely hailed as the best player on the planet between 1979-1982? The Ballon d'Or does not answer me this question. For example, do you have newspaper articles that address my question from any periods throughout those years? Do you know who was regarded as the premier player in the world heading into WC82? It's a simple question. If you don't know it, there's no problem. But if you do, please post any evidence that addresses my questions.
Keegan lifted Hamburg to first Bundesliga after 19 years, against what, of Maradona who non-entitied in CA79? No comparison. 1980 was closer, but still clear advantage on Rummenigge.
I know mate, that's the reason because I pointed out I was including also free-role attackers. There are several hybrids: Messi is a false 9 who sometimes seems me an attacking-trequartista and Cristiano Ronaldo is a mix of winger and forward in my analysis. Pelé, Cruyff and Di Stéfano had a different dimension at this point and that gives them an advantage in my own ranking.
And like I said, I'm not interested in some random expert opinions or newspaper articles, I'm interested in collective expert opinion.
So where is the collective expert opinion which states that X player was widely considered the best player in the game between 1979-1982? Not the best player in Europe (Ballon d'Or or Onze d'Or), but the best player in the game across the planet?
That's a constant error in your argument. I don't mean who won more with his team, but who showed the best level, even if he was less sucessful to obtain trophies.
And that's the constant error in your assumption. I don't mean who won more with his team, I mean who was collectively thought to be the best player, and showcased this. So Maradona didn't showcase his level in CA79 and so on?
There is no such thing as the "collective opinion of experts". The Onze d'Or was not given to a footballer based on the opinions of experts. "The Onze d'Or is a football award handed out by French magazine Onze Mondial at the end of the year since 1976. The readers select the Onze de Onze ("Onze's eleven", an ideal team of the season) and among those players they choose the top three, who receive the Onze d'Or (Gold Onze), Onze d'Argent (Silver Onze), and Onze de Bronze (Bronze Onze) respectively. Any player in a European league is eligible." What next? The readers of a French football magazine are now football experts? As you say, I will put that statement in "Category 1" - illogical. Your "argument" that Maradona would never have been in contention for the Onze d'Or is simply fallacious and purely conjecture. How do you know that the quality of Argentinian football clubs were not anywhere near their Dutch, English, or Spanish counterparts? You do not know, because you never saw them play. I will put that argument in Category 1 - illogical. Your argumentation style is so obtuse, jiopsi.
I disagreed. Maradona was playing for Napoli in the mid-1980's. That was the golden era of Serie A. He had to fight against Platini's Juventus, Altobelli/Rummeniggie's Inter Milan, etc. The Serie A was so strong that Verona led by Hans-Peter Briegel and Elkjaer won the Serie A title in 1985. Even Platini's Juventus finished 5th that season. Later in 1980's, Maradona also saw the emerge of the legendary AC Milan of the late 1980's. The Serie A in the 1980's was liked if Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich would join the EPL. Maradona's Napoli was liked Messi playing for Aston Villa. With due respect, La Liga was not as strong. And Barcelona's dominance began before the arrival of Messi. Oh well, Benefica was the Europan Cup winner before Eusebio, but that's off the topic. To be fair, Messi never has the chance to prove that he can achieve what Maradona achieved with a small club against the mighty giants.
Unfortunately you did not. What you provided was European awards for eligible European home-based players. But I asked a simple question: based on repute, across the world, including every continent, not only Europe, who was widely accepted as the premier player in the game between 1979-1982? If you don't know, simply acknowledge it and we will move on.
Of course there is, you need two opinions to form a collective opinion. And Ballon d'Or is more than that. If I'm not mistaken it's the paper that chooses the top 3 of the readers top 11. Nevertheless, if readers of football magazine in 1979 aren't experts, who are the experts? Not to mention that Onze d'Or greatly follows Ballon d'Or, expect when the ineligible players do something worthy. For the fact that Maradona scored more four seasons, in his teens in Argentina, than the rest of his career in Europe.
Here's their relative (to team mates and opposition) direct impact on team results: At the time Maradona wasn't even considered the best player of Napoli in 86-87 Serie-A, yet he's mythically considered of single-handedly carrying Napoli to first Scudetto. Here we can see that he actually "carried" Napoli in Scudetto on 89-90, with the same level of impact as Messi has done the last 2 seasons.
Irrelevant. The award is given solely based on the votes of readers. Readers of a French football magazine. They are not experts. It's not my duty to tell you who "experts" are; you should be telling me since you took on this laughable argument. Wow! You're telling me that Maradona found it easier to score in a league that was not world-renowned for its defensive nature? That is such a revelation! Have you ever considered going to the press with such a valuable factoid?