CR7 and Messi's place in football history

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by benficafan3, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    That's very relative. I couldn't guess if they hadn't the same good performances against more historic teams or even better. Only as example, I think Messi had faced one of the best individual performances by a goalie in front of him in 2010: Enyeama. Yes, the Nigerian goalkeeper isn't a top nevertheless.
     
  2. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Yes, it's because you're using that basis to assume your conclusion.

    That's again just your opinion. My point isn't about if he could win the Ballon d'Or, but who was the best player of the year in the world. Obviously, as you also point out, no one talks about goals.
     
  3. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well yes obviously that is my opinion, like yours are just your opinions.

    And that's also just your opinion. My point is the quality difference of the time in Argentina and Europe, he never was the best player of the world back then. The phrase big fish among small fishes fits here nicely.

    And he only was the best player 2 times in his stint in Europe, based on the Onze d'Or.
     
  4. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Perhaps some further exploration on your part may unlock the truth to the bold statement...
     
  5. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think I've explored it more than you tbh.
     
  6. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    On the subject in general, I think it's a bit difficult to know the position of both in a general ranking, but only comparing with FW's (SS's) and free-role attackers I'd put them in this order about:

    01. Pelé
    02. Johan Cruyff
    02. Alfredo Di Stéfano
    04. Ferenc Puskás
    05. Lionel Messi
    06.
    Eusébio
    07. Giuseppe Meazza
    07. Matthias Sindelar
    09. Cristiano Ronaldo
    09.
    Roberto Baggio
    11. László Kubala
    11. Rivaldo
    11. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge
    14. Adolfo Pedernera
    14. György Sárosi
     
  7. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Okay, so then by repute, who was universally hailed as the world's greatest player in the world between 1979-1982?

    Please provide not only some random rankings, but literally the views from experts that claimed that such and such player was widely considered the best player in the game. Please provide expert statements or publications from sources across the globe between those years (can be in any languages), not only polls which are based on circumstances of events, but based on opinions by professionals from that period that assessed the qualities of players from around the planet.

    Much will be appreciated.
     
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  8. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    That's my point.

    But I'm not based on the results of the Onze d'Or.
     
  9. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    That's just your opinion. The list is already pretty daft, when you have Puskas and Di Stefano ahead of Messi.
     
  10. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes, you've based them on only your own opinion.
     
  11. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    I think that's an opinion that shows a serious lack of knowledge.
     
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  12. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What it actually shows is your complete lack of logical and relative understanding, and which actually is the true knowledge.
     
  13. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    As everyone, from a user of BigSoccer to the most renowned analyst. You won't find another type of estimate unless you reduce it to statistics, but you need to know to use those and for that you still need your own opinion (but become ineffective as you showed in the comparison between Messi and Eusébio).
     
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  14. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    You were already exposed in that thread, this is just continuation.
     
  15. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Long time since I met such a patronizing poster. Keep it up Peru FC. :thumbsup:
     
  16. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    And what now, repeat the same mantra the next 2 pages? No thanks. :sick:
     
  17. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Sure Bada Bing. :thumbsup:
     
  18. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #68 Bada Bing, Dec 16, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
    Not some random "expert statements" but the collective statements, Ballon d'Or and Onze d'Or:

    1979 Keegan
    1980 Rummenigge
    1981 Rummenigge
    1982 Rossi

    Those are what were collectively hailed as greatest players in that time span, excluding ineligible players.

    Maradona was non entity in CA79 and WC82 so there goes those years. And Rummenigge was definitely better in 1980 and 1981. Maradona needed 3 years in Europe to crack top 3 in Onze d'Or, which would've never happened such way if he was already thought to be collectively the best player.
     
  19. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Good effort, but since Maradona was ineligible for the Onze d'Or between 1979 and 1981 (in 1982 just only played a half of the year in Europe) that argument become meaningless.
     
  20. billyireland

    billyireland Member+

    May 4, 2003
    Sydney, Australia
    I just remembered that this is the same guy who claimed Messi was the best defender in the world a few weeks back!! :p
     
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  21. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #71 Bada Bing, Dec 16, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
    Yes, it was already established.

    Again you missed the point.
     
  22. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Perhaps it's also established by the Onze d'Or. :D
     
  23. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Those were European awards, only eligible to European players, or players playing in Europe.

    But I have made a specific question: Where is your sources that confirm between the years of 1979-1982 - which included South American players - of whom was considered the greatest player in the world? Not the greatest player in Europe...Please provide sources.
     
  24. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    I think you haven't read your own quote. :D

    By the way, the Onze d'Or is an annual award (chronological year), isn't seasonal. At least you should know the terms of the award what are you basing your opinion. :whistling:
     
  25. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Like I said, excluding ineligible players. I already provided argument why Maradona would've never been in contention for 79-82 against the eligible winners of those years.
     

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