Rams played Ottawa last season in PDL, I heard it was a tough 10hour+ bus trip, but doable.... And you're right, I don't know how strapped for travel money the NASL teams are, I've seen it be problematic for PDL and NPSL though, so I'd worry for weak franchises.... Didn't mean to suggest public money would or should be spent on anyone's SSS, but I think the reasons I cited make permitting easier/more likely...
They did this year, reversing a trend that had seen their crowds fall off the table after the move down from the third division: 2013 - 1,058 2012 - 896 2011 - 796 2010 - 765 2009 - 1,838 (USL-2)
Thanks for adding these details, I know you are on top of these facts! Do you have any info on how the NASL sides do? I looked quickly at NASL.com when I posted above, they don't seem to put out a lot about attendance, I did see that Ft Lauderdale did a press release then they set their record (a little under 1800 if I remember). I do have to say that 700+ would have been a very good crowd for (PDL) Rams, Hydra, or Victory (or NPSL Binghamton, Erie, MassUtd). Also, note that at $9, Pioneers charge more than Rams ($6) and, when I was there, probably got more $/attendee from concessions than gate - I know I spent more on beer than to get in! Team shop did some business, they had sponsor tables for BigY (supermarket) and a car dealer, and more advertising than any other lower division team I've seen - as I said, they are my model for success in the minors... Also note, they own their ground (the social club is across the street) and have since the 20s - just put in turf surface a year ago.... I assume that they self-relegated to cut expenses, do you know if that's correct?
All the grounds I mentioned (15 in total) each have their unique qualities. All are located near mass transit and within relative distance of highway access. These places have the potential to work for different scenarios depending on what is arranged. Actually, I will spare you the breakdown of these places, and since you have not studied any of them, I think you might want to look into them in detail. There are currently people who have actually visited each with a purpose. (That is all I will say). Keep something in mind, I made that list because it was previously being implied that there is no location to play in Boston, and that is not true. Yes, to a certain extent, but not all cases are the same. This is why the league is looking to expand elsewhere. Yankees - Red Sox? Jets - Patriots? Knicks Celtics? Red Bulls - Revs? I think there is always a natural Boston-NYC rivalry (even if its friendly). Differently league, different location, different everything. Cosmos are doing fine in the NYC area thus far, and so can a Boston team within Boston center. Occupants where? Every stadium is different in size, location, and service. Revs can certainly pursue their path. What does that have to do with the NASL? From your points, and don't misinterpret my remarks There is no issue or tough row. The NASL can do very well. It's an open playing field. You might already be.
I would have welcomed your view on the list of venues, since you imply you've looked at them - who owns them? What concession facilities are available? Would beer service be permitted? Tailgating? How far from transit? Etcetera - if you have in fact checked them out, please share, that would be of interest.... Of course the natural rivalry would be New York - but as I stated, Cosmos hope to get into MLS (or at least that was the case when I talked with them (casually) last spring - I don't have any REAL insight into their actual plans, and certainly that was before NYFC was announced, but at that point they thought they were the front runners to become NY2 and would only spend a couple of seasons in NASL. Maybe their thoughts have changed since then...obviously MLS didn't see it that way.... Finally, I have to say that I still think that Revolution would be the likeliest group to get a new SSS going - and I would think that they would bring their reserve team and "post-Academy" operations in house - and which would create a powerful rival for a new NASL franchise. However, you'd certainly pick up the Anti-Kraft crowd, and if you beat Revs to the in-town, on-T punch, maybe you'd have a chance to get a successful NASL started...
In any given city, there are of course places a club could play, but that is entirely different than having a place they can be successful.
I have never implied anything that you are specifically indicating, nor can I say anything further to that respect (for other reasons). But I will answer some questions. The majority of these sites are within walking distance from their respective train stops. All are accessible from nearby highways and main roads. Some sites have opportunities for tailgating at nearby parking (though with mass transit and neighboring bars it is not always needed). Concession (and everything related) is part of the arrangements done with any site. All those details are part of a potential development and are taken into consideration with regard to the best overall option. Maybe. Again, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Different cases. I hear you, definitely. But once more, big city with plenty of room for everyone.
First you say that there is no place to play in Boston. Now you say that there are places but none good enough for a team to be successful. Talk about depreciating Boston. This gets funnier with each passing word. I think Boston will be great.
Hey, good luck! I hope it works out.... You can count on me for a ticket (and a couple of beers if you have a concession)
Boston is a great city for sure, I love the rich history it has and the culture. There is, in my opinion, no suitable facilities in Boston (or most US cities for that matter) for a NASL club to make a serious attempt at being successful. This is based on 35 years of watching soccer in this country. NASL clubs need a stadium plan that makes it possible to showcase the product they are selling. A high school stadium or a field hockey artificial pitch isn't going to cut it. In a pinch, it could be temporary while you build a stadium, but what are the odds that a NASL owner could finance a stadium in the Boston market? Which brings us back to Boston is a great city. Doesn't have an owner. Doesn't have a suitable stadium. When the owner with twenty million in his piggy bank shows up and is able to figure out how to get a professional quality stadium built, then we can start talking seriously.
Now there are no suitable stadiums... Clearly you have not done any hands on research to justify this affirmation. You brought up temporary. Well I already stated that condition when I listed the potential sites to start while a team is working towards a SSS. When you actually visit Boston and study these sites, rather than guessing, then we can talk. The original point to the thread is could the NASL in Boston work? And the answer is still yes. And pointlessly mentioning ownership is redundant as every city/franchise potentially needs investors. Go Boston.
The only way a Boston NASL team would work is if it did in the way that the Chicago Wolves in the AHL found a way to work about a decade ago, or the St. Paul Saints in the late 1990's and early 2000's after the Minnesota Twins demands for a new stadium came to an ugly head. Play on the idea that the ownership with the team in the major league (the Blackhawks, owned at the time by the late, and assholish, Bill Wirtz, and the Twins were owned by Carl Pohlad, who volunteered to cull his own team) doesn't give a crap about the fans and see if they can make something out of it. However, that will only last you until the other owner notices and starts doing things differently. That, or he dies.
Take any one of those 'stadiums' on your exhaustive list and make your case (since you have done such thorough research) as to how it is suitable to present the NASL product.
Boston doesn't really have too many elements at the present time that make them a promising candidate for NASL expansion. Positives: Leading TV market. Neutral: There are workable temporary venues that a team could play a few seasons in. Negative: There is no grassroots movement for a team, there is no owner worth $20M, the Revs are having a hard time getting a stadium done themselves. While I agree Boston is a great market for a sports league to have, it doesn't seem to be in the cards for NASL at this time unless a motivated owner emerges. There are certainly plenty of people with enough money in the Boston area, someone needs to step forward and a fan movement needs to step forward. Also, I wouldn't say the Cosmos are desperate to be NY3. I think the fans want it - I know I want it as a Cosmos fan. But they were reluctant to pay MLS's going rate for a NYC franchise, and someone else wasn't. They were reluctant to give up control of their brand to the extent MLS requires and the other bidder wasn't. Unless they move on those two positions, MLS is a distant possibility. The road is much more distant today than it was prior to NYC FC emerging. If they want MLS on their terms, which it seems they want, it is a long road. Building a SSS is a good first step. Filling it is a much better second step. Either way, I'm happy to have a team I can finally call my own, which is a sentiment shared by a good number of other fans originally from the New York area. I'll stick with them even if they remain in D2. I think NASL can safely plan on having the Cosmos in their league through 2020.
Hey thanks for making a suggestion, but I think any new NASL team in Boston will be based on their own merits and what they have to offer to the city, and not what someone else is not doing. NASL Boston can stand on its own accomplishments. First there were no places to play, according to you, and now the list is exhaustive... Interesting point. Are you sure about that? Different situation, and has nothing to do with a potential NASL team playing in Boston. While you may believe this, you might be mistaken. You may be on to something. No one knows the future. We can only plan for it.
And planning an NASL team in Boston would be among the more boneheaded, surefire ways to lose money, possible. But, hey, good luck with that.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I guess the NASL should just close shop because it is impossible to move forward and it is futile to believe in success. (More archaic dogma and fear of change - yawns).
I am well aware of Boston's history. And if you are too, you would know the answers to any of your own questions. Not to dive deep into it, as we can sit here for hours amicably speaking about our knowledge of the subject, we are in a different era. This is a new path with an ever strengthening league. Placing a vision into context, an NASL Boston team can be very successful. Like all expansions, its about the right package.
There is no "right" package that doesn't involve an owner willing to lose money every year. None. But, yes, you can call that a success if you find such an owner. It would not be unprecedented. People generally don't own sports teams as an investment. The main problem with Boston or any other saturated big league market is that the lifeblood of minor league sports is not available - namely corporate sponsorship dollars and free advertising in the form of coverage by the local media. That's not a "Boston" thing. That's a big league market thing. The problem the Hartford Whalers had was that they couldn't compete with the teams from Boston and New York for sponsorship and broadcast revenues - even within Hartford. And that was a major league team in a completely different town. Go ahead and start an NASL team, but you're already in the hole half a million bucks, and - being in Boston - your expenses are going to be higher. Cosmos exist because the owner isn't overly concerned with the bottom line. Find someone like that and you'll be good as gold. But, hey, I'm just a Debbie Downer, you should go ahead and put me on your ignore list.
Prediction (quite one-sided). There are many other point of views that see things very differently. Any investment in a team in any league incurs risks that all investors are made well aware of. Nonetheless, the point of Boston is to make a sound study, build a solid foundation (at all levels), and invest in a product that has true potential for growth. Come again? You might mean long term bond waiting for a yield? A Boston investment has the makings of a good return, so long as the services and product meet a proper goal that nets beyond equilibrium. Landscape is changing. You seriously can not compare Hartford to Boston as they are completely different financial environments. Doing so will always put each place in the wrong context. Um, ok. Thanks for the bedtime story. Where are you getting this from? I would never ignore you. I enjoy good conversations. Especially if I can eventually convince someone to give another team or league new found support.
And you respond with a defense mechanism to berate another person's understanding of your flawed perspective. Ok. If that works for you. Take your time. Drink a pina colada. Come back in a couple of years, and we'll revisit this conversation. By then, your acceptance might have evolved with age.