Unless the original round of 16 thread, which was only 7 pages long, returns, let's write here. I don't see why the other CONMEBOL forum threads were successfully migrated and a small thread like that one hasn't been uploaded. Some good action tonight. Boca Jrs. wins 2-1 at home against a gritty Uniao Espanhola team who came to play and who failed to bring Chile a valuable 1-1 tie thanks to a late goal by Santiago Silva. I definitely want to watch the return leg, because Uniao has shown it means business in this tournament. Ledesma injured? Vasco with the same scoreline against Lanus in Rio - what a glorious goal by Diego Souza to make it 2-0, but too bad for Vasco that they gifted Lanus with a goal. Although Lanus was aggressive and did what it could, it did err with passing and didn't exude confidence. I can see Vasco holding on for a draw in Argentina, and if they bunch up in the back to play on the counterattack, anything is possible. Good and bad news for Corinthians. Corinthians' replacement goalkeeper Cassio passed the test, but they played poorly and had a player, Jorge Henrique, red-carded. Emelec will come to Pacaembu with nothing to lose and the pressure is on Corinthians. If Corinthians plays what it can play, they're in the quarterfinals. They are a superior team. But if Emelec ousts them - it'll be an embarrassment, and Vasco (or Lanus) will blast Emelec.
Threads are still being imported, so hopefully they'll be able to recover the original thread. We can use this one for now, and maybe if the other one shows up they can be merged. Awesome win by Boca, I thought they could have scored more early, but in the end I was resigned to a draw, that last goal by Silva was huge. Union Española played a very smart game. I expect an excellent return leg in Chile, and I think Boca will advance, but it's not going to be easy. I missed the Lanus game, they were showing Corinthians on FOX so I figured I might as well watch that one. Disappointed with Corinthians, I thought they were playing the best football up to now, but not tonight. So, seven first-leg matches are done, all were very close, and only three home teams won: Bolivar, Boca and Vasco, all by a less than decisive 2-1 score. Looking forward to the return legs!
Silva scored a totally unstoppable header. I like Boca, they don't play spectacular football, but they play smart. Unión gave them a tough game, obviously el Coto had studied how Boca plays. Too bad the forwards didn't have better aim. According to ESPN, UE had 10 shots, 6 on goal, of which Boca saved 5. Boca had 9 shots, 7 on goal, of which UE saved 5. Both teams committed 12 fouls, UE had 2 corners to Boca 3. 2 offside by Boca, 3 by UE. All in all the stats reflect a very even game, which is good news for the Chilean team, since they were expected to mainly defend as visitors. UE is not a defensive team. The return leg promises to be a hardly fought affair. Missing Scotti is a blow to UE, so all in all I stick with Boca winning this interesting match-up.
Here are the goals of Boca 2 Union Española 1, with narration by Boca's homer radio announcer. Notice the contrast on how he calls the goals:
Dude, was he supposed to even say "GOL" when União Espanhola scored? If anything this is quite normal; you will, for example, never hear a Brazilian TV anchorman or radio announcer shout "GOL" as loudly and as long when a national team scores against Brazil as he does when Brazil scores.
Well, this is the narrator who follows Boca's games every week on the radio. His audience is Boca fans. If he shouts for the other team, I think he'd find himself in very serious problems.
Not feeling it this year. It's not Boca's year. If they struggle that much against UE, what's going to happen if they play U de Chile or a top Brazilian team? Looks like the economy is taking its toll on the Argentine league and they'll have to take a back seat to Brazilian and Chilean clubs for a while.
Your coach will have to be pretty creative given the names he can’t use either due to injury or to suspensions as your team currently competes in three tournaments. (Is the Argentine Cup a new tournament? My country has had the Copa do Brasil since 1989, so I presume this is a brand-new competition.) Last night, Ledesma got tackled hard. What a nasty two-legged tackle. The news says he's out for 20 days. I have seen him play – he’s talented and fast, and your team will miss him in Santiago. I have also read that the injured list currently lists Battaglia, Somoza, Roncaglia, and Viatri. I remember Battaglia and Roncaglia from previous Libertadores tournaments - experience is always pivotal in elimination rounds. And, União Espanhola gave more work to your team that I had expected them to (I actually originally predicted União Espanhola to eliminate Boca this year), and while your team did win, União Espanhola does decide at home with one goal last night - a match where Boca's current weaknesses were exposed as they were against Fluminense. If that's what we see next week, I don't see Boca advancing. But, we'll have to wait and see.
I wouldn't underestimate Unión. I think they could give U de Chile a run for their money too. The last time they played U de Chile barely won 3-2.
To be honest we also struggled against Union, we barely beat them 3-2 last time we met, we managed to turn it around in the last few minutes just like Boca did (I think we have improved since then though). Coto Sierra has built a decent side with the players he's got, but he does not have the depth Boca have, I think Union will miss Scotti more than Boca will miss Ledesma. It is by no means a done deal, Union know they can cause some damage so Boca will have to play their best to get through. I still fancy Boca to win mainly because of the experience, but it's going to be a costly victory in terms of loosing Ledesma and maybe another player due to suspensions. The biggest winner will be whoever they face next. In terms of injuries you guys mentioned Ledesma is out for 20 days... but you also have Battaglia, Somoza, Roncaglia, and Viatri out, but for how long? I suspect Boca might end up feeling their absence in the later stages...
It's the altitude bug. You never know when it's going to bite. But Deportivo Quito played it well. As far as the Boca vs Union Española series, it will be tough for Boca because UE is playing well, but in terms of home field advantage, going from Buenos Aires to Santiago (or viceversa) is not really a big deal. Of course the fans are hostile and it makes a difference, but other than that it's not a tough away game for either team. The plane trip is short -barely over two hours- the weather this time of the year is similar with nice playing conditions -most likely even nicer in Santiago- and the altitude is a non-factor. It's not like having to go play in places like La Paz, Quito, Caracas or Mexico City. Whatever happens, it will be more about the teams than about the home field advantage.
Except for last night's unexpected 4-1 rout by Esportivo Quito, I would say the results were pretty much within what most of us fans expected. I for one am still hoping for four Brazilian quarterfinalists. I will need to research and see if that would be the first time the "elite eight" of a Libertadores tournament had half of its members all from the same country. EDIT: in 2009 and in 2010, 4 of the 8 quarterfinalists were Brazilian, but in both years, São Paulo and Cruzeiro played off, with Cruzeiro winning in 2009 and São Paulo winning in 2010. In 2012, if Corinthians, Vasco, and Santos all advance, it would mark the first time that the bracket would be set up to potentially allow 3 Brazilian semifinalists. Very difficult and in my view, unlikely. But that's what makes the Libertadores the most exciting tournament soccer has every year.
This is an article written by Ubiratan Leal, a Brazilian sports journalist who writes at the website trivela.com. I am not going to translate it into English because most of you who write and read here speak Spanish and therefore you will be able to understand most of it. Very informative information regarding how the change of the away goal rule by CONMEBOL has affected the frequency of penalty kick shootouts. O Vasco ficará uma semana lamentando o gol de Regueiro no segundo tempo em São Januário. Tite chegou a dizer que era melhor fazer gol fora e perder em Guaiaquil do que empatar. O uso do gol como visitante como critério de desempate em mata-mata sempre causa polêmica, e muita gente não gosta por ser supostamente injusto ou nocivo (harmful) à beleza do jogo. Isso é bastante discutível. A graça de competições em mata-mata é ser imprevisível, e a regra dos gols fora de casa aumenta a imprevisibilidade do confronto. Além disso, a quantidade de duelos que vão aos pênaltis – um tipo de decisão legítimo, mas muito mais lotérico e aleatório (random) – é bastante reduzida. Os pênaltis servem de conforto aos jogadores, que muitas vezes preferem especular com uma decisão nos 11 metros ou em ganhar mais 30 minutos de jogo do que se expor a tomar um gol nos minutos finais do tempo normal. Por exemplo, o Barcelona não se abriria tanto contra o Chelsea se o 2 a 1 estivesse anulando o 0 a 1 do jogo de ida e levando a semifinal da Liga dos Campeões para a prorrogação. Basta ver o histórico da Libertadores. A regra dos gols fora de casa foi implementada em 2005. Foram sete campeonatos (não conta 2012) nesse formato, que vale para fase preliminar, oitavas, quartas e semifinais. Pegando os sete últimos torneios com a regra anterior (que não considerava gols como visitante), é nítido como os jogos passaram a ser decidido em campo, e não da marca dos 11 metros. Decisões por pênaltis antes da adoção da regra dos gols fora (15 duelos por ano): 1998 – 3 decisões por pênaltis (1 semifinal) 1999 – 3 decisões por pênaltis (final) 2000 – 6 decisões por pênaltis (1 semifinal, final) 2001 – 5 decisões por pênaltis (1 semifinal, final) 2002 – 5 decisões por pênaltis (1 semifinal, final) 2003 – 4 decisões por pênaltis 2004 – 8 decisões por pênaltis (1 semifinal, final) Foram 34 decisões por pênaltis em 105 duelos, uma marca impressionante de 32,4%. Ou seja, um em cada três duelos foram decididos assim. E muitos deles foram em fases avançadas da competição: cinco duelos semifinais e cinco finais. Enfatizando: em cinco de sete anos (99, 2000, 01, 02 e 04), o título foi decidido nos pênaltis. Após a implementação da regra, a quantidade de decisões por pênaltis obviamente caiu muito. Mas não foi só isso: os próprios empates no placar somado de ida e volta caíram bastante, mesmo se considerando os confrontos decididos pela regra do visitante. Decisões por pênaltis após a adoção da regra dos gols fora (14 duelos por ano*): 2005 – 1 empate somado (1 decisão por pênaltis) 2006 – 3 empates somados (2 decisões por pênaltis) 2007 – 2 empates somados (1 decisão por pênaltis, 1 semifinal) 2008 – 1 empate somado (1 decisão por pênaltis) 2009 – 3 empates somados (1 decisão por pênaltis) 2010 – 6 empates somados (1 decisão por pênaltis, 1 semifinal) 2011 – 3 empates somados (1 decisão por pênaltis, 1 semifinal) *Não foram considerados os jogos da Pré-Libertadores ou da repescagem em jogo único de 2003. E, em 2005 a 2011, não foram consideradas as finais, por terem um regulamento diferente dos demais (sem contar gol fora e com previsão de prorrogação). Em 2009, dois duelos das oitavas de final foram cancelados com a exclusão de times mexicanos devido à gripe suína. No total, 19 dos 96 duelos (19,8%) tiveram empate na soma dos placares de ida e volta. Desses, apenas 8 (8,3% do total) foram para os 11 metros. A quantidade de classificações decididas nos pontos ou no saldo de gols aumentou significativamente em relação aos sete anos anteriores. Outro argumento recorrente para contestar a regra dos gols como visitante é que ela favoreceria os mandantes do jogo de ida. Será mesmo? Veja o retrospecto: Mandantes (mandante: team with home field advantage) dos jogos de volta que passaram de fase antes da adoção da regra dos gols fora (15 duelos por ano): 1998 – 7 1999 – 6 2000 – 9 2001 – 10 2002 – 10 2003 – 8 2004 – 9 Total: 59 de 105 (56,2%) Mandantes dos jogos de volta que passaram de fase após a adoção da regra dos gols fora (14 duelos por ano): 2005 – 8 2006 – 10 2007 – 6 2008 – 7 2009* – 6 2010 – 8 2011 – 10 Total: 55 de 96 (53,4%) *12 duelos De fato, mais times que mandaram o jogo de ida acabaram passando de fase, mas a variação é mínima, de menos de 3 pontos percentuais. Fica dentro da margem de erro de uma amostragem que não chega a ser gigantesca. Dá perfeitamente para considerar que não houve mudança (change) nesse aspecto. Pelos números, não dá para argumentar que a regra dos gols fora de casa é nociva ao jogo ou distorce a lógica do campo. Pode-se preferir uma ou outra por gosto pessoal, mas não por beneficiar o visitante do jogo de volta ou aumentar a quantidade de duelos que ficam arrastados no final.
I guess Falcioni realized that Union Española means business. He decided to rest all the starters for next week's return game. Trying to win both the domestic league and La Copa sounds nice, but it's going to be all subs this weekend against Atletico Rafaela.
The commentators said this is the first time Universidad de Chile loses vs an ecuadorian team...this sux haha, those 2 forwards they have were good. The altitude did influence the game a bit though, for the first time under Sampaoli the team could not run.
No se: aparte de alguna esporadica genialidad de Riquelme y las subidas de Clemente por izquierda, ofrece poco en ataque Boca. No se si alcance para decir que plantean el juego de manera "inteligente". Quizas sea muy pronto para hacer predicciones pero con esto no les alcanzara para ser candidatos (si podria ser lo suficiente para superar a UE).
Good first half between Vélez Sarsfield and Atlético Nacional. Atlético Nacional dominated possession and had good chances, while the hosts came close a few times. Vélez Sarsfield is not strong in midfield, and this is making it easy for the Colombian team to have the football. The visitors recover possession rather easily. I can easily see Atlético Nacional score one goal - whether they'll get more than 1 in 45 minutes is another question.
So we have our first two quarterfinalists. Velez Sarsfield (barely getting through) and Libertad (advancing with authority). Lets see what tomorrow brings.
Did anyone see that golazo that Atletico Nacional scored against Velez? I got the luxury to watch this game and I'm glad I did. Congrats to Velez for advancing but I'm hoping Boca can beat them this Sunday in the clausura .