Final Classification After Group Phase: 1. Fluminense 15/+3 2. Corinthians 14/+11 3. Santos 13/+7 4. U de Chile 13/+5 5. Libertad 13/+4 6. Vélez 12/+4 7. Lanús 10/+5 8. Unión Española 10/+3 ---- 9. Boca 13/+6 10. Vasco 13/+4 11. Atlético Nacional 11/+8 12. Cruz Azul 11/+7 13. Deportivo Quito 10/+7 14. Bolívar 10/+2 15. Emelec 9/-1 16. Internacional 8/+4 ---- 17. Defensor Sporting 9/-1 18. Flamengo 8/+2 19. Junior 7/0 20. The Strongest 7/-6 21. Arsenal 6/-1 22. Nacional (U) 6/-2 23. Godoy Cruz 5/-6 24. Nacional (P) 4/-7 ---- 25. Olimpia 7/-6 26. U. Católica 6/-5 (GF: 6) 27. Aurich 6/-5 (GF: 4) 28. Peñarol 4/-7 29. Guadalajara 4/-10 30. Dep. Táchira 3/-3 31. Alianza Lima 3/-6 32. Zamora 1/-8 ---- 33. El Nacional (loss to #5, Libertad) 34. Tigres UANL (loss to #8, Unión Española) 35. Once Caldas (loss to #16, Internacional) 36. Real Potosí (loss to #18, Flamengo) 37. Sport Huancayo (loss to #21, Arsenal) 38. Caracas FC (loss to #28, Peñarol)
Re: Copa Libertadores 2012 [R] Average position by Country: 11. Venezuela (38, 32, 30 = 33) 10. Peru (37, 31, 27 = 32) 9. Mexico (34, 29, 12 = 25) 8. Bolivia (36, 20, 14 = 23) 7. Uruguay (28, 22, 17 = 22) 6. Colombia (35, 19, 11 = 22) 5. Ecuador (33, 15, 13 = 20) 4. Paraguay (25, 24, 5 = 18) 3. Argentina (6, 7, 9, 21, 23 = 13) 2. Chile (4, 8, 26 = 13) 1. Brazil (1, 2, 3, 10, 16, 18 = 8) This reflects the last qualification cycle for the WC2010: 1. Bra, 2. Chi, 3. Par, 4. Arg, 5. Uru, 6. Ecu, 7. Col. It supports the idea that league strength correlates to NT strength, even if most NT players play abroad. Likely: Uruguay, Ecuador and Colombia will be competing for two berths for next WC. Venezuela and Peru won't be factors.
Re: Copa Libertadores 2012 [R] My predictions: Inter over Flu Boca over Union Española U de Chile over Deportivo Quito Libertad over Cruz Azul Corinthians over Emelec Vasco over Lanus Santos over Bolivar Velez over Atletico Nacional
Re: Copa Libertadores 2012 [R] The way we beat Atletico Nacional without key suspended and injured players makes me believe we are definetly a stronger side than last year, we have more strength in the bench. I got a good feeling about this copa, we might reach our peak at the right time...
Re: Copa Libertadores 2012 [R] Yep. They wore futebol society (as we call them in Brazil) soccer shoes as opposed to the real thing because Aurich's field has synthetic grass. It didn't work. They should've done what Santos did, and played the old fashioned way. They have nobody to blame but themselves.
Re: Copa Libertadores 2012 [R] In any other year I'd agree, but not in 2012. Internacional has excellent players but has been erratic and their manager's questionable lineup choices has cost them points. They played with an overly defensive system in Santos, and Neymar ran all over them. Additionally, Internacional has been weakened by a judicial imbroglio with São Paulo regarding Oscar. Brazilian courts have blocked Oscar from playing with Internacional at least for now. Had he been on the field, Internacional would probably not have lost to Aurich, and they may well have defeated Santos in Porto Alegre. It does not look like Inter will have Oscar back in time for the matches against Fluminense, who with the exception of the match against Boca in Rio has been pretty solid throughout this tournament.
Re: Copa Libertadores 2012 [R] Goleadores hasta ahora: Dorlan Pabón(Atl.Nacional) 7 Martín Alustiza(Dep.Quito) 6 Emanuel Herrera(U.Española), Neymar(Santos) y Leandro Damiao(Inter) 5 Antenor "Jr." Fernándes(Univ.de Chile) y Javier Orozco(Cruz Azul) 4
Programa de Octavos de Final: Juegos de ida (fechas y horarios a definir): Internacional(BRA) vs. Fluminense (BRA) Emelec (ECU) vs. Corinthians (BRA) Bolívar (BOL) vs. Santos FC (BRA) Deportivo Quito (ECU) vs. Universidad de Chile (CHI) Cruz Azul (MEX) vs. Libertad (PAR) Atlético Nacional (COL) vs. Vélez Sarsfield (ARG) Vasco da Gama (BRA) vs. CA Lanús (ARG) Boca Juniors (ARG) vs. Unión Española (CHI) Juegos de revancha: Fluminense (BRA) vs. Internacional (BRA) Corinthians (BRA) vs. Emelec (ECU) Santos FC (BRA) vs. Bolívar (BOL) Univ. de Chile (CHI) vs. Deportivo Quito (ECU) Libertad (PAR) vs. Cruz Azul (MEX) Vélez Sarsfield (ARG) vs. Atlético Nacional(COL) CA Lanús (ARG) vs. Vasco da Gama (BRA) Unión Española (CHI) vs. Boca Juniors (ARG) http://www.conmebol.com//copasantan...s-asi-quedaron-los-octavos-20120419-0005.html
I finally caught highlights of U. de Chile v. Nacional Medellin. That first goal by the Chilean team was awesome. I think every player but the La U. goalkeeper touched the football - they have excellent team chemistry and ballhandling. Esportivo Quito is a good team too, but U. de Chile, along w/ Corinthians and Santos, is in my analysis the only team I see as a "guarantee" to advance to the quarterfinals.
Re: Copa Libertadores 2012 [R] I'm not really sold on Flu. Really it was a very easy group that they won. It's not a coincidence that they were the best first and Boca the best second. And I thought Boca outplayed them in Buenos Aires in spite of the result, and also in Rio. (After watching the game in Buenos Aires I predicted here that Boca would win in Rio). Flu has a dangerous attack but they don't play well as a team and the defense is vulnerable. Without playing well, Inter showed me a more solid overall game. From what I saw of both teams, I have a feeling that Inter will move on. But my impression is mostly from watching the Libertadores games, and very little from Brazil's domestic games this season, (mostly highlights.) If you watch a lot of the Brazilian national and regional tournaments I'm sure you have a much better perspective than I do.
Re: Copa Libertadores 2012 [R] Boca is going to be a challenge to the Brazilian rivals, for sure. Their slow pace, covering of spaces, and energy management makes of them a rather cerebral team. Boring to watch, but not for it less dangerous. Unlike other teams, Boca accelerates as the game goes on, and they seem to be at their best late in the second, when the other team is tired. Brazilian teams sometimes suffer lack of concentration toward the end of a game. UE is a tough rival to Boca though. From what I've seen, they are precise in the counters and also tend to manage energy expenditure, to the point that their best counters are near the end. Seven of their ten goals have been scored in the last third of the game. The thing about Boca is that without Riquleme they play very different. They start at a faster tempo, and open up the field more. I even like them better that way. So the rival won't know for sure which Boca they get.
Re: Copa Libertadores 2012 [R] Refuerzos ----------- Here some points I've gathered around about squads and refuerzos: 1. Each squad needs 25 registered players. In case of extreme trouble (bad $$$ situation), fewer players can be allowed: 20 for the pre-Libertadores, and 23 for the Group Phase. 2. This time around Sport Hucancayo had only 20 registered players for the pre. Had they defeated Arsenal, they'd have needed to get 3 more players. 3. A team can get "refuerzos" between phases. CONMEBOL allows for a club to get players to play the Copa Libertadores only. Case of Teofilo Gutierrez and Lanus, for example. 4. CONCACAF only allows a "refuerzo" if he will play at least a full tournament with the club. It makes the situation much harder for Cruz Azul, since unlike CONMEBOL teams, they are nearly ending their liga, not just starting it. 5. Cruz Azul could ask for an exemption by CONCACAF. 6. You can have internal (from the same club) and external refuerzos during the Copa. External refuerzos are limited to three. Internal, can be any number. It's usual to pick injuries during the group phase and replace those players with players who were not registered due to injury. 7. When you get a refuerzo, you can shift numbers around as well. 8. You can replace a seriously injured player during the group phase, if he won't be able to play any further games. Not sure if that is allowed after. 9. A player that already played for a team in this edition of the Copa Libertadores cannot play for a different team. 10. In CONMEBOL, Copa Libertadores fixtures take precedence over local leagues and local copas, so their dates must be re-arranged around Libertadores dates. Not so for CONCACAF, which means Mexican clubs must beg their federation to have Liguilla dates changed (Mexican Liguilla and Libertadores Octavos happen always at about the same time: end of April/first half of May).
What? How did Nacional and Godoy Cruz finish ahead of Olimpia and Catolica when they had less points overall?
Third in their group. Position within group over-rides total points and goal difference. Also, in case of same points and GD, total goals scored breaks the tie, not head-to-head numbers.
I thought the next round started first week of May, but I see that Bolívar - Santos and Inter- Flu are both scheduled for this Wednesday. What happened?
Rede Globo, a Brazilian media communications conglomerate, owns broadcasting rights for Copa Libertadores matches in free TV, and it is responsible for this scheduling change. In the contract between Fox Sports and Rede Globo, there is an agreement that prevents more than one match per week involving Santos and Corinthians. The reason for this move is the final phase of the São Paulo State Championship (Paulistão), which begins also next week. Muricy Ramalho, Santos' manager, knows this. On Thursday night, right after Santos defeated The Strongest, Ramalho openly requested Globo to prevent Santos from having to play next week because this coming Sunday, Santos will play a Paulistão quarterfinal match against Ponte Preta. Muricy was already anticipating a possible tear & wear on the players, especially because the first match Santos has in the Libertadores round of 16 is in Bolivia. Globo is extremely powerful and influential in Brazil; the other networks lack its capital and influence. TV Record, another major Brazilian TV network, received exclusive broadcasting rights for the 2011 Pan-American Games (which were hosted by Mexico). As a result, Globo utterly ignored the Games, not mentioning them in its prime time news' sports segments. It did show some Pan-American Games coverage as the events unfolded, but this was its behavior because it did not have exclusive rights. Globo has been covering Libertadores, Olympics, World Cup qualifying, Copa América, Confederations Cup, and World Cup events live for many years. Other networks do broadcast Libertadores and World Cup matches, but none is as ubiquitous within Brazilian TV as Globo is. To get an idea of Globo's power, the official announcement of Santos' first match vs. Bolívar for April 25th was made by Globo's Globo Esporte show before CONMEBOL itself officially made the announcement. Thus, Santos will face Bolívar next week (with the audience to watch this only in the state of São Paulo; the rest of Brazil will only be able to watch Internacional vs Fluminense, unless of course they have cable/satellite TV). Vasco and Corinthians will debut in the Libertadores' round of 16 on May 2 as originally planned.
At the beginning of the Tournament everyone was on Inters bandwagon and don't blame Oscars situation for you guys hopping off. I think Inter will lose to Fluminese no doubt in my mind. Fluminese won at the Bombonera theres no reason to fear there away game at Inter. Fluminese have been really organised so far this tournament and Decos exceded my expectations so far. As for Santos defitenly us playing In Bolivia earlier is going to help us but that doesn't mean I'm not worried. I felt like Neymars lungs were going to explode last game there. We lost in extra time due to a set piece and exhaustion. I saw bolivar play in Chile with 3in the back, I really hope they use the same system when they come to Brazil.
Re: Copa Libertadores 2012 [R] Fluminense has not really shined during 2012. Its two best games were the victory in Buenos Aires and a match vs. Vasco in the Rio de Janeiro State Tournament. However, I still think they are likelier to advance for a few reasons. 1. Abel Braga. He is, in my view, a better coach than Dorival Junior. Braga has won the Libertadores (in 2006 - with... Internacional). He knows what this competition requires. He has for the most part fielded his team adequately, and minus the loss in Rio de Janeiro, he's done his homework and he'll continue to do so. Internacional's Dorival Junior isn't a bad coach, but he's too cautious. He deployed Inter with 3 defensive midfielders against Santos in Vila Belmiro, and as I wrote, Neymar ran all over Inter. 2. The defense. Yes, Inter has excellent players: Dagoberto, D'alessandro, Datolo, and most notably, Leandro Damiao. In terms of creative midfield and strikers, Inter can compete with anybody in CONMEBOL. But defensively, Internacional leaves much to be desired. An interesting anecdote: the back 4 with which Inter started against Mazembe in December 2010 is the same back 4 with which Inter started against Joao Aurich 2 nights ago. Not that Nei, Bolivar, Indio, and Kléber are absolutely awful, but rather, that they are older. They may have good chemistry, but they're older and slower. 3. Fluminense's players are talented and experienced: Deco, Sobis, Thiago Neves, Rafael Moura, among others. There are some "youngsters" like Wellington Nem, but this is a highly talented side whose prime has not yet arrived. Internacional is a team with a lot of talent and potential, but its prime can be said to have passed. Datolo's arrival has made the team better, and without a doubt, Internacional is still a very good team. But the coaching, as I pointed out, is not up to par; Internacional underachieved in the group stage. Losing to a team that has been so bad in the Peruvian league is inexcusable. For all these reasons, I view Fluminense, an admittedly sometimes erratic team, as the favorite to advance. Internacional may prove me wrong - can't wait for next week.
Not one of the top candidates but certainly a contender. In my predictions I have them losing to Santos in the quarters, but it could easily go the other way. I don't count them out.
Velez was stronger at the start of the tournament. Now, for one they're having some medical problems: Insua has a recurrent foot fascitis, Franco Razzotti is definitely out for the rest of the season (including the rest of the Libertadores) due to tendinitis that required surgery, Olivera will be out for a couple of months after surgery. So that's three of the 25 registered that are out (although Insua may come back in time, I'm not sure). Another one from the list, Ezequiel Rescaldani, has been loaned to Quilmes, so I expect them to get at least one refuerzo to replace him. Although so far they haven't said a thing about getting any.
Inter has problems, mostly defense and a chicken-shit coach...but when the tough gets going don't count us out. Oh and we lost Dalessandro today to injury...but he has barely played all year. Arentine Datolo is doing great and scored twice today. Damião is finding his form. If Fluminense doesnt score in Porto Alegre they are in trouble. And dont forget Inter has won a FIFA sanctioned Intermational Title every year since 2006, we dont want to make 2012 the first we dont. 2006- Libertadores 2007- Recopa 2008- SulAmericana 2009- Suruga Cup 2010- Libertadores 2011- Recopa
I was surprised your team lost to Defensor Sporting at home. Even though your team was already in, Defensor was a beaten and eliminated rival as far as group competition was concerned. Yet your team played without the grit I saw in last year's Libertadores playoffs. If they show that edge again, they will definitely be a contender. But other than that I can't say much as I haven't watched them closely. I do think that Velez has to be very careful w/ Nacional from Colombia, though - that Pabon is quick and he can score.
I doubt Fluminense won't score in Beira-Rio. This is their away scoring record in this Libertadores: At Boca Jrs: 2 goals At Zamora: 1 goal At Arsenal: 2 goals Fluminense is sometimes erratic, but they've got a very strong front line. Combine that with Internacional's unimpressive defense, and it's quite realistic to predict at least one Fluminense goal in Porto Alegre. And, it is true that Fluminense's offensive output has been modest: 7 goals in 6 games. But Spain wasn't a scoring machine in 2010, yet they emerged as World Champions.