Conference Realignment

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by Len, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. jdgaucho

    jdgaucho Member

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    they probably would. having a couple extra teams is wise in case any of the others are in danger of being cut. I think Denver and Seattle are a better fit for the Pac-12 as far as soccer is concerned (since Colorado and Washington State do not have men's teams). then San Jose State finds room in the WCC.

    I dunno about the BW dropping Sac State in three years. UC Davis needs a travel partner and Bakersfield joining the Pac means they are not coming to the Big West. I think Sac State stays and the Big West either stands pat at 9 or expands to 10 (maybe UC San Diego?)


  2. jdgaucho

    jdgaucho Member

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    I am torn on Bakersfield a little. On the one hand, the Big West is the most natural fit for them in everything. Their soccer team would make our already rediculously competitive conference that much more so, and another bid for the NCAA tournament would be had for the conference. This is good. On the other hand, that would mean yet another school joining the conference fresh out of Division 2 - which is the last thing our conference needs. The Big West has a bad image nationally. But for soccer and baseball, our members are considered a joke in every other sport. I am fully aware of Bakersfield's successes at the Division 2 level but at present, I think it's best that they look at the Big Sky or the WAC for membership in other sports.

    now if UC San Diego wants to make the jump to D-1 then Bakersfield can revisit the issue. but them going Pac-12 soccer pretty much eliminates any chance of joining the Big West
  3. jdgaucho

    jdgaucho Member

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    the teams I'm concerned with are Denver and Houston Baptist. Denver at least has some room to work with thanks to having the Pac-x, WCC and Big West (no shot, but still worth mentioning). They should be fine, but what good options are out there for HBU? the MAC? Conference-USA? Southern Conference?? they may be the ones left out in the cold.
  4. perspixx

    perspixx Member

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    The Big West has rejected UC San Diego in the past, and San Diego State would block any attempt to add them in the future. UCSD's students just voted down a fee increase to fund the move to Division I, so don't expect to hear anything from the Tritons anytime soon.

    CSUN being UC Davis's travel partner for men's soccer would not be a problem. Before UC Davis joined the conference, Pacific and Cal State Northridge were travel partners for basketball and volleyball.

    Cal State Bakersfield has had strong soccer and baseball programs over the last couple years, but it's still not proven that they can have long-term success. Their student body is 1/4th the size of the other CSUs in the Big West, so they can't raise as much money by increasing fees. Their academics are the worst of any Division I CSU campus; they failed to make the Forbes national list, which every other D1 CSU did. They were 283rd in the Washington Monthly (the next-lowest D1 CSU was San Jose State at 209).

    Oral Roberts is leaving the Summit League to join the Southland Conference, which does not sponsor men's soccer. Where is their men's soccer program going? They could be left in a geographic limbo just like Houston Baptist. I suppose the MPSF could add both of them if they go into survival mode. Tulsa is closer to Denver than Seattle and San Jose, for starters.


  5. jdgaucho

    jdgaucho Member

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    I didn't know what was happening with UCSD's student vote. okay then, now they are out of the picture.

    as for where Oral Roberts can go - C-USA or maybe the Missouri Valley?
  6. CPslograd

    CPslograd New Member

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    I think Cal State Bakersfield is better off in a conference other than the Big West. They are more ambitious. The facts that they were 7-1 against the BW in basketball, were a bubble team for baseball last year, and made the post season in soccer in their 2nd or 3rd year as D1, should be alarming to Big West fans. What you said about their limitations is true, but they have much better administrative support than Big West schools, and nothing in the Big West is comparable to Rabobank Arena. They also are able to keep coaches like Kernan because of the lower cost of living in Bakersfield as opposed to most of California.

    Gyasi Zardes will only be a junior next year, and most of their team is back. CSUB will be a top 20 soccer team next year.
  7. perspixx

    perspixx Member

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    Going 7-1 against the Big West in one season means nothing, when neither of the teams they beat were UCSB or Long Beach State. It means even less when you add in that they were 11-23 against the Big West in the four seasons before that.

    More ambitious than the Big West? That's funny, because they've applied to the Big West at least two times and started a baseball program for the sole purpose of trying to get into the Big West. Oh well, I hope they have a comfortable chair to sit in and a sweater to wear while they sit by the phone waiting for the Pac-12 or WCC to call offering full membership, because it's going to be a cold day in hell (and Bakersfield is a pretty good body double for hell) before it happens.

    There's a reason Bakersfield has a lower cost of living. Heck, you can get a 3-bedroom house in Trona for $25,000... let's start a Division I program there and see what kind of coaches we can get with our lower cost of living.

    Bakersfield will have a good team in 2012, but Zardes will leave after his junior year and the rest of their best players will graduate, and the Roadrunners will be at or near the bottom of the Pac-12 in 2013.
  8. Gaucho Bandsman

    Gaucho Bandsman Member

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    Here are the reasonable "options" for CSUB for all sports (which is what they eventually want):

    Big Sky: The Roadrunners don't sponsor football, there's a lot of travel involved. Not really a great fit, but if the Big Sky needs somebody, then maybe.

    Big West: Best fit for Bakersfield - all CA schools (will change with Hawaii, but Hawaii pays travel subsidies), mostly public schools. Travel is cheap, and they've expressed interest in the past. If they were to get an invite, this is ideal for CSUB.

    Great West: No auto-bids, new conference, wide area geographically. Not really appetizing.

    MWC: No football, CSUB is a non starter for them.

    Pac-whatever: Hahano. Not happening, ever.

    WAC: Conference is falling apart, lots of travel. They'd take a spot, but it wouldn't be ideal.

    WCC: CSUB isn't a religious school, they aren't going to be interested.

    I think that covers all of it. The ideal fit is the Big West, but the Big West is wary of adding them, especially as they've been able to get SDSU and Hawaii recently. If CSUB builds a strong basketball program (one that would improve the conference every year), the conference would probably take a look at them again. If the BW were to offer, CSUB would be there in a flash.

    For soccer only, the Pac makes perfect sense for all concerned. I think if CSUB were to get a shot at the Big West, they'd take it, in the hopes that it would expand to all sports at a later date, but the Big West doesn't seem to be interested.

    I think CSUB has a great deal of potential as a program - Bakersfield is a bit of a sports dead zone and they are really proud of their community down there. I can see it developing into a Fresno State minus football.
  9. bisbee

    bisbee Member

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    I guess it did happen...CSUB is joining the Pac whatever for soccer in 2013.
  10. CPslograd

    CPslograd New Member

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    I wasn't trying to belittle the Big West, just stating my opinion.
    In talking to Konya I really don't think CSUB desires the Big West anymore than the Big West desires CSUB. The situation has changed in the past 16 months. Konya has said multiple times that if CSUB sets its sights on the BW they are setting them too low. I know, I know, obviously some of that is because they got rejected, but Konya wasn't AD then either.

    CSUB is likely to join the WAC within a couple of months. I know we laugh at it, but if you look at the lineup it isn't that bad.

    Boise
    Idaho
    NMSU
    UTA (probably)
    Denver
    Seattle
    TxSt (maybe)
    CSUB
    UVU

    The truth is that is a better basketball conference than the Big West top to bottom. Not as good in baseball as the BW, but if TxSt and UTA stay, pretty darn good.

    But back to soccer, and my point about how CSUB is better off not in the Big West. CSUB is never going to be UCSB, no one is. But Fresno State held the attendance record for decades, there is definitely a soccer following in the San Joaquin Valley, and since Fresno dropped mens soccer, that is a huge opportunity for the Roadrunners.

    If they had been invited to the Big West, their soccer program would have been lost amongst all the other solid but unspectuatular programs like UCR and CSUN. Being in the MPSF (which is one hell of a conference competitively) allowed them to differentiate themselves. And this Pac12 invite is the luckiest break in the world, especially with the upcoming Pac12 Network. CSUB is a motivated school, and they promote soccer a lot, and have a good coach. I really don't see them falling off the map once Zardes leaves.

    Full disclosure, I'm a Poly grad and fan, but am from Visalia. I'm a lifelong Bulldog fan, and have adopted the Roadrunners since they moved up.
  11. Gaucho Bandsman

    Gaucho Bandsman Member

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    I dunno, I just don't see the new WAC as being that great of a conference. It seems to me like it is at the point that the Big West was when the football schools left - needing to take teams, regardless of quality, just to stay afloat (which is why CSUN and UCR are in the BW). The football moves have really hurt the WAC, and I doubt those moves are done. I realize that the conference has a lot to offer FCS football schools who want to move up to FBS at some point, but I don't really see what it does for a non-football school other than provide a home with an auto-bid.

    The Big West, on the other hand, looks like it is benefiting from the shakeup. Yes, it's a mid-major, but so is the WAC, and the Big West is compact geographically - which is very important from a financial standpoint.

    I don't really agree with the argument that the new WAC is better than the new Big West from top to bottom in basketball. Yeah, the Big West has some awful teams, but the top is actually pretty decent as far as mid-majors go. Kind of irrelevant though, with the conference adding SDSU and Hawaii they don't need a newly minted D-I member. It's unfortunate because CSUB has a much higher ceiling than many (if not most) BW members, and I fear that the current shunning will turn off CSUB from being interested should they begin to realize their potential.

    As for CSUB soccer in the Pac or BW...I don't think it matters. I think they'd be successful either way. In the Big West they would have been able to use UCSB the same way Cal Poly does to drum up interest. In the Pac they can use UCLA and UCB. The program is on the rise, and the important thing was for them to get a stable conference home to get a solid schedule. They've done that, and don't have to sweat the whole MPSF situation.
  12. CPslograd

    CPslograd New Member

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    Great? The new WAC will sure as hell not be great.
    But the median RPI is quite a bit higher than the BW, especially if you remove SDSU. They also have bigger basketball facilities.

    In mens soccer the Pac12 will help CSUB more than the Big West. It will help with fan interest, exposure, and recruiting.
  13. bisbee

    bisbee Member

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    WVU has joined the MAC for the upcoming soccer season. Will be a boost for the conference.
  14. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

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  15. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

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    Good to see.

    Hopefully it's for more than just one season but the way the chess pieces are moving around these days, maybe they should all just go year-by-year.
  16. Hax

    Hax BigSoccer Supporter

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    It's a four year commitment to the MAC by WVU, scroll all the way to the bottom of this press release.

    http://www.msnsportsnet.com/page.cfm?story=20995&cat=exclusives
  17. CPslograd

    CPslograd New Member

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    The MWC and CUSA are leaning towards an association rather than a full merger, that should be good news for the MPSF teams.
  18. perspixx

    perspixx Member

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    it's good news for the MPSF, but they'll still be down to six teams, all of whom will be looking for a better opportunity one way or another.

    It's also not great for CUSA, which will move forward with UAB, Marshall and Tulsa along with associate members South Carolina, Kentucky and FIU.

    Still no official word on what Oral Roberts is doing, but there was talk that they would seek associate membership in the Missouri Valley.
  19. perspixx

    perspixx Member

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    I don't see that happening, and if it does, what a mess! CSUB isn't within 800 miles of any of those schools except UVU (650). Denver is the only one that has a non-stop flight to/from BFL.
  20. lr3forme

    lr3forme New Member

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    where is Belmont going to end up?
  21. perspixx

    perspixx Member

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    Pacific is leaving the Big West, joining the WCC and adding men's soccer starting in 2015.

    I guess this is good for the sport... but 2015? really? It takes you three years to put a team together?

    Pacific had no interest in adding men's soccer while they were a member of a conference with an average RPI of 48.5... now that they're leaving for a conference with an average RPI of 91... they're all for it. Gutsy.
  22. CBSoccer

    CBSoccer Member

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    Does that mean Pacific will be dropping their football program?
  23. jdgaucho

    jdgaucho Member

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    Pacific has not played football since 1995
  24. jdgaucho

    jdgaucho Member

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    I was wondering about why Pacific dragged their feet for so long in terms of men's soccer. now that they are leaving a good conference for it, they decide to field a team. I guess peer pressure in the WCC has something to do with it?

    on another note, I guess Sac State is staying in the Big West after all!
  25. CPslograd

    CPslograd New Member

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    They have already been playing most of those teams the past couple of years, not really that different. Bakersfield does not have a major airport, so of course they aren't going to have direct flights to most of those places. This isn't really the place for it, but you are welcome to join the discussion at the CFN WAC board, I post there all the time.

    My real point was that the Pac12 is better for soccer for CSUB than the Big West, even though the Big West is a better (at least deeper and better attended) soccer conference. And I still think that is true.

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