I only watched the last five minutes of the first half, extra time, and kftm, but I thought the referee really stepped up and did quite well during that period, save the obvious encroachment on the first PK save. The number 18 for Panama also committed an orange foul that I don't believe earned a card. There was a bit of playacting by El Salvador, but Panama thugged it up a bit too so I look at that as a wash.
As I've said before, I was never a Marrufo fan and I think you can pull up some old threads where I expressed a pretty negative opinion of his work and frustration with his rise. That being said, he's been great of late and it's disappointing you won't concede that--even if he's not your favorite. More to the point, though, I fail to see the logic behind your argument. You say "he can't even get a knockout stage game from CONCACAF" and use it as evidence that he is unfit for WC candidacy. Well, there were only two games he could get--would your argument really be that Quesada is a better referee than Marrufo? Perhaps a better question... do you think any other American referee would have got a knockout stage game this past weekend? You can't just slag Marrufo in a vacuum if the goal is promoting an American referee--there has to be an alternative. The only alternative I see at the moment is Geiger and he's pursuing an alternate path at the U20s this summer. But I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have got a knockout match at the Gold Cup--if you think those assignments are dished out solely on merit, you are mistaken. There is a verifiable history here... go back to 2002 and 2005, when Brian Hall was shutout of any Gold Cup knockout matches when he was eligible for 8 of them between the two tournaments. He lost out to the likes of Sibrian and Prendergast and Pineda and a guy named Bryce from Trinidad and Tobago. Do you think that meant Brian Hall wasn't good enough to work at the top CONCACAF level? Especially when, in 2003, Stott did get a knockout match? Really? So which FIFA AR in the US are you calling a "bootlicker?" Rockwell? Morgante? Wienckowski? Gansner? Want to start naming some names here? If you think our ARing is so bad that Mexico deserves a 7-to-1 ratio over us at international tournaments based on quality, express that opinion. But I don't see evidence to support that alleged reality. Mexico got 2 more ARs than us at the Gold Cup, a full crew at the U17s and then a full reserve crew at the U17s (which it is hosting) where all the reserves were CONCACAF officials (a reserve crew there had Nicaraguan and Belizean ARs). If you honestly don't think politics had a hand in how those crews were picked and truly believe our top FIFA ARs aren't worthy of such assignments at the moment, I don't know how to debate you on those points. But it seems like you're just much more satisfied by dragging the names of our FIFAs through the mud wholesale.
We should have had a couple American AR's go to Mexico as backups. Our referees aren't the greatest as a whole, but I think we have some damn good ARs.
Agreed on all this. There is definitely some contact, which explains why the Jamaican walked with no fuss. You're right that it doesn't explain the theatrical fall, though. Also, that was contact which might have been impossible for Rodriguez to see at real-time, so he might have just got lucky with the foul call! It's funny, I thought something similar at the time of the foul. The last touch looked very heavy and part of me wondered if Jones went to ground because he knew he wouldn't get the ball. That said, this goes back to the situation where the spirit of the law should trump, in my opinion, the stringent ticking of the four boxes for DOGSO. It's quite clear that the Jamaican was deliberately trying to take Jones down and stop a breakaway. He had almost no chance of winning the ball and, though the contact didn't end up being substantial, ran a very high risk of bringing Jones down in spectacular fashion. Plus, Jones is in the middle of the park, heading straight at goal, with no one but the goalkeeper to beat (sorry but the players to the right and left of him don't matter, in my opinion; he's away with a head of steam and they are 7-10 yards to the right and left of him). The only question, from a 4 D's perspective, is whether or not he'd get to the ball before Ricketts. Is it "obvious" that he will? Absolutely not. Is it possible that he might? Definitely. At the moment the foul actually occurs, the ball is still only a couple yards in front of Jones--if he had stayed on his feet and pursued the ball at full speed, we'd have had a very interesting situation. So you end up with 3 D's checked and 1 in question. But you balance that with a defender who was committing the sort of tackle that this law was instituted to combat. Do we let him off on a dubious technicality or do we do what everyone expects and sends him off? I fall in the latter camp. I also was certain, by the way, that Rodriguez would take the same approach (no surprise there!). If this was a careless charging foul on a 60/40 ball, I likely would come down with a different opinion. Is that technically correct? Probably not. But it certainly encapsulated what the DOGSO law was designed to do. EDIT: I'd also ask, if you don't buy the DOGSO argument... was the nature of the foul SFP? Granted, there's no violent contact or true excessive force. But that's a tackle from behind and it certainly could have endangered the safety of the opponent. I don't think that's what was called, but it's another avenue to consider.
A thought on the DOGSO red card. . . Even if there WASN'T contact, it's quite clear (IMO) that the defender is not going for the ball, which makes this a case of tripping. The law 12 offense is Trips or Attempts to Trip an opponent. So if we decided we wanted to call the foul for attempting to trip (a Direct free kick foul) and we had the 4Ds, it's DOGSO even without contact. Thoughts?
When it happened on TV, all I could think was: "Two games out of 3 where the same ref gives us a yellow for diving!" When the JAM player walked off with no protest I knew he had to have clipped him. Well done, ref (again). And the 4D's be damned. He was most certainly trying to deny him an chance to be 1v1 with the keeper on his next touch. Of that, there can be no arguement. That was either red for DOGSO or yellow for simulation. No other options. (Except the theoretical and suicidal red AND yellow: for DOGSO and exaggeration LOL!!!)
Panama v USA Referee: WIJNGAARDE (SUR) AR1: VERGARA (CAN) AR2: LEAL (CRC) 4th: GANTAR (CAN) Little surprised to see the Canadians here, but it's not exactly an MLS-based squad, so I guess it's not an issue. Couldn't ask for a better AR1 and Leal is a WC referee, too. Gantar seems to be getting a nice first ride at the top level (probably helps that Vergara is around). Anyway, with Wijngaarde... we will see. We've seen him be okay, but we've also seen him be very weak in the last WCQ campaign. I'm guessing his means Aguilar for the other semi, unless he's being held for the Final. If that's the case, I don't have a clue who we see later tonight.
Never been a fan of him. Then again, I've never been a fan of too many non-Mexican/American refs in CONCACAF not named Batres.
It's funny, I was just looking back on our discussions about the 2009 Gold Cup. Some things never change in CONCACAF. We've reached the point now, with Batres' retirement and Campbell's pending retirement, where the top two non-Mexican referees we can hope for are Moreno and Wijngaarde. And isn't that saying something? Lopez has shown minimal promise, in the little I've seen him, too--with Batres being his mentor, I give him a little more hope.
I don't forget him at all. I just dismiss him as being awful. Remember, I wrote "the best we can hope for..." I expect Aguilar for the big matches. But I hope for Moreno and Wijngaarde over him. Well, what I really hope for is the days of inter-confederational exchanges. But it doesn't seem like that is happening anytime soon.
If you bring in a CONMEBOL ref for USA/Mexico, then Honduras would want a CONMEBOL ref for Hondruas/Mexico. So on and so on.
And CONCACAF used to do it. Take a look at the Hex in 1997. The rule was that if your team made the Hex, you couldn't referee in the group. That eliminated Brizio Carter, Archundia, Baharmast, Hall, Prendergast, Sibrian and others. Essentially, all the top referees from CONCACAF were conflicted out. So aside from a few referees from Guatemala, Honduras and Trinidad & Tobago, the officials came from: Argentina Brazil Peru Chile Paraguay Colombia Uruguay Bolivia Spain UAE Italy The names included people like Castrilli, Toro, Sanchez, Nieves, Betancourt, Rezende, Aquino and Ruiz (all WC or Copa America referees from CONMEBOL). Aquino and Castrilli had the two US-Mexico games. Oh, and the Spaniard was Garcia-Aranda (WC semifinal), the UAE ref was Busjaim (WC opener and semifinal) and the Italian was a guy named Collina. And yes, our referees got to go to to other confederations. I seem to remember Baharmast working in CONMEBOL and a big match in Asia. For some reason, the exchange was relaxed in 2001 where there were still some Asian and South American refs, but CONCACAF officials from the participating teams were allowed to ref some games that didn't directly affect their own country. By 2005, however, the entire thing was scrapped and we've seen only CONCACAF refs in the Hex for 2005 and 2009.
Oh yes, Wijngaarde certainly showed his true colours today. His favoritism toward the US was obvious and pathetic. And, where are the linesmen in all of that?? Sleeping with blinders on.
If you are talking about Dempsey's goal, I am as much of a US homer as you will find. As I watched it live, my heart was in my throat, waiting for the flag to come up. Frankly, I was amazed it stayed down. Post game they showed a replay that showed the AR was inch perfect. USA! USA!
When football refs come up to the level of the IRB Referees' standards, laws and regulations, and the game adopts even a pinch of IRB rules on the pitch, then I will applaud. There has been so much dirt in football refereeing across the world and year after year, fans, players and officials merely shake their heads after a game and ........ play on to the next one. No changes, but granted, a few during these CONCACAF games, such as carding for dives and arguing with the ref.
If your going to come on here and accuse a ref of being bias in a game that had pretty much zero moments of controversy when the US had 19 fouls and Panama had 13 and all four yellows we're legit, you'll only come across as a bitter fan trying to blame the ref.
Lopez gets the match with two Guatemalan ARs. Looks like he's following Batres and might be the next hot thing in CONCACAF. And Aguilar is the 4th. So, yeah, I think we will see him on Sunday. If that's the case, Moreno might be the big loser of this tournament insofar as expectations go.
Lopez got fooled by Portillo and gave a Mexican player an undeserved yellow card for unsporting behavior. There have to be sanctions for these clowns.
The U.S. goal was onside. I thought it was offside live and on the first replay, but I rewound and watched it frame by frame. The Panamanian defender closest to Donovan keeps Dempsey on. It looks offside because Dempsey is behind all the defenders near him, but the one marking Donovan took one too many steps backwards, keeping Dempsey even with him. Its a bang-bang play and great job by the AR seeing it.
The panama us game had 2 canadians on it. Where was FLetcher? He was present for the beginning of the Gold Cup. Where is he now? Did he get sent home or on another assignment? Think he would of stayed to prep for the U20 World Cup. Aguliar for the final for sure! Slight chance you will see Moreno. Would be a great year for him if he does do it...champions league final plus gold cup final. Re: CONCACAF Referee Assignments Panama v USA Referee: WIJNGAARDE (SUR) AR1: VERGARA (CAN) AR2: LEAL (CRC) 4th: GANTAR (CAN) Little surprised to see the Canadians here, but it's not exactly an MLS-based squad, so I guess it's not an issue. Couldn't ask for a better AR1 and Leal is a WC referee, too. Gantar seems to be getting a nice first ride at the top level (probably helps that Vergara is around). Anyway, with Wijngaarde... we will see. We've seen him be okay, but we've also seen him be very weak in the last WCQ campaign.
I'm not quite sure I understand Gantar's rise as yet. Ward, in particular, has more experience and polish. Gantar has also had very few MLS matches. He's been ok, but in the matches I saw he still has some work to do.