Your are serious about being silly aren't you? I didn't argue with anyone. I argue with you only because of how silly you are. You make empty statements and just can't back any up. Period. Do I need to back anything up? Nope. You insist that I was wrong. Let's see some proof. You won't respond anymore because you have hit a dead end. The only thing I made a mistake on was the teams still involved in play. Other than that I am as correct as anyone, even more so I think. What can you really tell us? Who do you know that hasn't been invited or given an assignment because they were not available for a previous CONCACAF or FIFA assignment. I don't believe the US was invited to send anyone or it was turned back. It is not a snub of US referees at all. Now, you were saying?
How and with what evidence except that because these guys say so? What was stated is a myth. Name one official that this has happened too. You guys always make statements then spend time trying to tell me I am wrong without spending time showing why. Let's see some proof. Otherwise, you are all full of BS just as you accuse me of being. And for you, who has picked apart my "argument" twice? What has been said that is so much more true in fact over what I have said? I disagreed and provided good reason why. Statements were made by, now you, and others that just can't be backed up with actual fact. You all just repeat what you hear and haven't said anything more than hearsay. Attack when you can't provide real answers is the way things are managed on the forum. That's all that has happened. Tell us what referee, either in CONCACAF or FIFA, has been dropped or ignored because he/she has not accepted an assignment. WHO??
There is a big difference between a CONCACAF assignment and a FIFA assignment. A CONCACAF assignment has a different set of political issues. The caribean nations are strongly influenced by Mr. Warner. He is not on the USA side of things. However, with B. Hall in charge of managing the CONCACAF referees things can be evened out some. He knows how the US officials are and when best to use them. Now if someone wants to quote any statement by Brian as to why there were no US officials at this tournament then please do. He would know best. You can also then ask him to back up the statement made by many on whether officials are ignored or dropped for nit accepting assignments. I'm positive he would just laugh at that statement. Part of accepting the appointment as FIFA referees is not an agreement to drop your life whenever FIFA or your region calls on you to officiate a match. Committing to. Month long assignment is not easy for anyone even a self employed official. If you never accept an assignment or turn back more than accept then yes you will be ignored. But, isn't that the case with local assignors for youth as well? Don't make empty statements and sell them as fact when there isn't one official that can be named who was ever dropped or ignored.
So you say. If its people like you who cares? Keep acting like a child. Why don't you add something of relevance instead of criticizing what you don't know? You haven't even read the whole thread have you? Hey dude, the world isn't flat and the US did put a man on the moon. Or, maybe you still believe that stuff too.
I agree it is troubling not to see developmental level referees from the USA get assignments for this tournament. Any opportunity to get our referees to tournaments is a positive step. The question will be whether the USSF chose not to send officials or the more troubling implication in your post that CONCACAF said no thanks. It also makes me wonder how much authority Brian Hall has in the Confederation. Is he not responsible to assess and assign the officials for all CONCACAF matches?
The US would not choose to send or not send officials. If CONCACAF asked then they would try and provide. CONCACAF makes to assignments and USSF. If CONCACAF did not assign then there is a very good reason or, if there were assignments they may have been turned back. Brian is part of the plan and may have nothing to do with these since they may have already been made before he took over in Dec. I do not think USSF is worried at all and except for the few on this board who believe they know better, our officials will be used and have been show cased many times already. Caribbean officials have a helping hand with warner in charge. That is one battle that must always be fought. So, seeing what a few on the board have said are top officials working this tournament means nothing. If US officials are ignored for WC qualifiers then there would be a huge concern. To speculate and present as fact as MASS REF does is just guessing.
But getting back to the point and the facts. MassRef, do you know which US refs went to the other major and minor tournaments in the past few years? I can remember Vaughn going to the U-20 in Canada in 2007, (although he did not do too well AFAIR) but don't know about others such as U-20 in 2009, any of the U-17s or Olympics, PanAm or World University games. I also don't know how valid the point about Warner is. It doesn't seem to adversely effect the Mexicans (who had 2 refs at the 2010 WC), nor the Canadians, so why should it effect the US refs? I always though the procedure was that each Federation is asked to nominate officials for tournaments, and then some committee, (probably Referees' Committee) makes selections from those nominated. It would be sad if our nominees were not selected, but even sadder if US Soccer did not nominate anyone. PH
Re: CONCACAF Referee Assignmentsim I'm requesting for everyone to take a deep breath and leave personal issues aside. Clearly no one here really knows what happened. This is speculation. Until we know otherwise all we are doing is putting out a hypothesis of what happened.
Show me where I presented an answer to Pierre Head's question as fact. I'd call particular attention to the first three words of this response: The only things I presented as facts in this thread (aside from any deleted posts) were, you know, the actual assignments. They were the facts on which KMVJet based her initial response to your factually incorrect assertion that American referees weren't there because the US team was there. Everything after that was my opinion, freely stipulated to as conjecture, in a response to Pierre Head's question.
Continental or FIFA youth? For FIFA, it's been: 2005 U20: none 2007 U20: Vaughn 2009 U20: none 2005 U17: Stott 2007 U17: none 2009 U17: Marrufo 2008 Olympics: Marrufo 2005: Confed: none 2009 Confed: none Toledo also was a guest at the last Copa America and I believe we are slated to get someone appointed to the 2011 U20 tournament. Finding out continental appointments would take a little more digging.
Are the assisgnments out for the semi-final legs yet? Any takers on how gets them? Secondly i've been reading all these posts and i agree and disagree with them. I think when it comes time to assignments in CONCACAF you have to consider the politics of it all. USA and Canada always get robbed when it comes to this. No one in the us nor canada got a shake for the 2010 world cup(except for vergera). Geiger and Ward are probably the best in this region and should be this regions choice for the next short list of officials for 2014 in Brazil. Also the politics of it will include Rodriguze from mexico....3rd time representing.
A highly placed source in CONCACAF told me the selection of the officials for the U-17 tournament came from CONCACAF. They also stated it should not be construed to mean there were not US officials capable of doing these matches.
Not going to bother gussing the two Mexican refs for the first semi. It really could be any of their FIFAs. Saprissa/RSL I'll guess Paul Ward and Courtney Campbell. Other guesses would be Brizan (sp) and Moreno.
Thanks for the info. It does look a bit sparse, and makes you wonder why this is so. In theory, our officials, with an active pro league here, should be getting to these tournaments. And if no-one from the US goes to CONCACAF tournaments, which was what started this portion of this thread, there is not much chance of getting to the FIFA ones. There must be a problem somewhere. Is it a reflection of the way games are refereed in MLS? The selection of Marrufo to the Olympics in his 2nd year on the list,ahead of others with more experience is a consequence of his connections. I don't recall anyone else getting to a major tournament so quickly, and without being tested in a minor tournament first. So without this, the list would be even more sparse. This, and no WC selections since 2002 after a continuous 6 WC run of selections since 1982, is a cause for serious concern IMO. PH
Something you need to keep in mind about these tournaments, starting with 2005 only referees on the World Cup short list were invited, and to only one of the 4 tournaments. So when Stott was being looked at for 2006 WC, he went to the U17s. The other WC candidates got the other tournaments that year. In 2007 Vaughn was on the short list, but was later replaced by Marrufo.
Well...just what else should be construed from this? It must have been construed this way in the minds of the selectors, or that our guys are not as good as those from the Cayman Islands or Jamaica so they got picked instead? Or there is some political reason? And I don't believe the idea that they know our guys are good, so didn't need to pick them so that they could just see how well the refs from the smaller countries can do. Either way the fact remains no-one from the US went. I do agree that there are US officials capable of doing this level of match, including many I know who are not on the FIFA list. They are not that difficult for a competent referee. PH
Dead-on. You can look at the above and say "sparse," but that doesn't tell the whole story. Aside from a few select referees that had to replace others because of injuries, no official went to two FIFA tournaments in 2005 or 2009. And no official went unless he was on the WC short list. So Stott in 05 and Marrufo in 09 were are only eligible referees. This part isn't true, though (unless there was a non-publicized, much longer, "short" list). In 2007, just like 2011, there was not yet an announcement of WC candidates. I imagine Vaughn had a chance to make the shortlist if he performed well in Canada, because many of the other officials there made the list and ended up in South Africa, but that's just speculation.