CONCACAF Referee Assignments [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Mar 2, 2011.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2001
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Country:
    United States
    As the CCL gets started back up again, I figure an aggregate thread might be useful to keep track of what's what in CONCACAF. Likely could be a potential resource for USMNT fans, too. I'm thinking CCL, WCQ, Gold Cup and major youth assignments could go here.

    To start...

    Champions League Quarterfinals
    QF Leg 1 - Crew (USA) v Real Salt Lake (USA) - MARRUFO (USA)
    QF Leg 1 - Cruz Azul (MEX) v Santos (MEX) - DELGADILLO (MEX)
    QF Leg 1 - Toluca (MEX) v Monterrey (MEX) - CHACON (MEX)
    QF Leg 1 - Saprissa (CRC) v Olimpia (HON) - LOPEZ (GUA)

    QF Leg 2 - Real Salt Lake (USA) v Crew (USA) - GEIGER (USA)
    QF Leg 2 - Santos (MEX) v Cruz Azul (MEX) - GARCIA (MEX)
    QF Leg 2 - Monterrey (MEX) v Toluca (MEX) - RODRIGUEZ (MEX)
    QF Leg 2 - Olimpia (HON) v Saprissa (CRC) - AGUILAR (SLV)


  2. ZipSix

    ZipSix BigSoccer Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Country:
    United States
    Geiger's crew botched an offside call on RSL's third goal. Espindola in an offside position has to leap over the ball in order for it to find its way to the net. Clearly interfering with play. Flag stayed down. Not sure why.
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2001
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Country:
    United States
    U17 Final Group Stages
    Haiti v Costa Rica - GUERRA (GUA)
    Cuba v USA - WINJGAARDE (SUR)
    Barbados v Honduras - CRUZ (CRC)
    Jamaica v Trinidad & Tobago - ARELLANO (MEX)
    Panama v Cuba - WARD (CAN)
    Canada v Barbados - PAREA (PAN)
    Guatemala v Trinidad & Tobago - TAYLOR (BRB)
    Costa Rica v El Salvador - HOLDER (CAY)
    USA v Panama - WINJGAARDE (SUR)
    Honduras v Canada - LEGISTER (JAM)
    Jamaica v Guatemala - BONILA (SLV)

    U17 Quarterfinals
    Costa Rica v Panama - ARELLANO (MEX)
    USA v El Salvador - LEGISTER (JAM)
    Canada v Trinidad & Tobago - BONILA (SLV)
    Jamaica v Honduras - WINJGAARDE (SUR)

    U17 Semifinals
    Canada v Panama - TAYLOR (BRB)
    USA v Jamaica - ARELLANO (MEX)

    U17 Final
    USA v Canada - WINJGAARDE (SUR)
  4. KMJvet

    KMJvet Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    United States
    I guess it's a money thing...but I think they should have sent Geiger and Marrufo to do the all Mexican games and sent two of the Mexican guys to the USA.


  5. Rydianstealth

    Rydianstealth Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    BYU Cougars

    The assistant referee did well in this situation. Espindola was doing everything he could to avoid making contact with the ball. Futhermore, he never made actual contact with the ball, therefore in my opinion Espindola was not interfering with play. Just my opinion.
  6. KMJvet

    KMJvet Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    United States
    I don't know this is the right thread for this? ...but seems to me this is how the rule is interpreted now...as long as the attacker doesn't touch it they're fine. It's not the way I wish it were called because I think if the player in the offside position jumps over the ball, they pretty much have to be obstructing the keeper's vision on the ball, which seems to me like interfering. Seems a pretty good attacking strategy actually to get in the way of the goal keeper's vision like is done in hockey all the time.
  7. oldmanreferee

    oldmanreferee Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2005
    Location:
    Mountain View, ca
    which AR was it gansner or the JR assistant referee
  8. McWaters12

    McWaters12 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Country:
    France
    Yeah - drawing a line on whether they are interfering or not can be tricky. I had a problem Saturday where I thought an offside striker might have been interfering during a FK - I let the goal go.
  9. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Why are there no US referees here?
  10. whistleblowerusa

    whistleblowerusa BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Because, the US was still involved with playing.
  11. KMJvet

    KMJvet Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Location:
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    United States
    So, were Jamaica, Canada and Costa Rica.
  12. whistleblowerusa

    whistleblowerusa BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    And I don't think anyone went
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2001
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Country:
    United States
    They did; the info is in the initial post. All three had referees--and Legister was still working in the QFs, while Jamaica was still playing.

    I don't know the answer to Pierre Head's question and I certainly get his implied point about a missed opportunity at development. The only thing I can think is that, for the most part, these were non-Elite referees (Ward and Winjgaarde excluded) so it wasn't something that we'd send our top guys to. That doesn't mean that we couldn't have sent Jurisevic, though.
  14. soccerking1990

    soccerking1990 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Country:
    United States
    Except he was at the Disney Pro Cup.
  15. whistleblowerusa

    whistleblowerusa BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    No one from the US went, who do you think went? The tournament did not invite top officials or anyone from the US. This tournament would not have help any of the US officials and availability needs to be considered.
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2001
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Country:
    United States
    I have no idea what you're getting at. The 10 referees that went are listed above. We all know who went. Pierre Head just asked why an American wasn't there, presumably when a lower-tier Mexican referee was. And you initially said the reason was because the US was playing; KMVJet showed that to be incorrect.

    But that's not true. Ward and Winjgaarde are Elite referees in CONCACAF and Winjgaarde was even a World Cup candidate. You could make the argument that Winjgaarde is ranked ahead of all our referees besides Marrufo (at least through 2010).

    I think that's a very debatable point and I would disagree. All international experience is good experience for our FIFAs. If a lower-ranked Mexican referee is going for development purposes, then it's reasonable to ask why an American isn't there, too.

    But this point is dead-on. If people had other commitments or if USSF/MLS wanted people involved in pre-season, that's an important point. But I think that is part of the original question Pierre Head was asking.
  17. whistleblowerusa

    whistleblowerusa BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    I said that US referees were not invited. Then, you said they were and were listed in a previous post. I asked who went then?

    I do not think any US Referee was invited. Why? CONCACAF maybe wanted to spread things out some knowing that the next level of officials have a better chance of showing big instead of screwing up at a lower level tournament. Something like that could ruin chances not only for CONCACAF officials but from US. Remember who is in charge there now.
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2001
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Country:
    United States
    Then it's a mis-communication. I quoted your response to KMVJet, where she talked about Canada, Costa Rica and Jamaica being in the tournament (as a counterpoint to your original point that American refs weren't there because the US was still playing). When you said "and I don't think anyone went," it looked like you were then talking about Canadian, Costa Rican and Jamaican referees since she didn't mention American referees. That's the only reason I responded as I did.

    Fair enough. But I still think some would argue it's always good to have one of your referees at these continental youth tournaments. It's where you first hit FIFA's radar and it's the process that UEFA and other confederations seem to use. Bjorn Kuipers, for example, leaped straight from a strong UEFA youth performance into being one of the go-to Champions League referees. So these events aren't a total waste of time for a younger FIFA.
  19. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Sorry, I didn't mean to start an argument here.

    But as to my initial question: Was no US referee invited?
    If this is the case, it is somewhat worrying. Are none of our guys considered
    to be suitable for this tournament? Marrufo has already been to high profile tournaments, so they know his strengths and weaknesses, but what about the others? Are none of them really international class officials? MassRef is correct and Whistle is wrong. These smaller tournaments are definitely stepping stones to the bigger ones and therefore important in development and progress. No-one at this level should be concerned about "screwing up." It's all about being able to show your capabilities. And the US should have someone there if our guys are to be considered good enough. Note that Mexico and Canada did.

    Consider that we have not had a WC referee since 2002. In previous years, there were also several of the others on the FIFA lists who did not referee in the WC, but were very definitely international class officials, and were invited to other major tournaments, such as Olympics, U-20 WC, Pan American Games, World University Games, etc. where they did well. (Examples would be such people as Kibritjian, Bratsis, Evans, Bellion, Kleinaitis, Dominguez, Stott. These guys were on the lists when Socha, Mauro, Angeles, Baharmast and Hall went to the WC.) So now we don't get invites to even the smaller tournaments? This is not a good sign, and once more points to the problems and issues at the top levels here.

    Or, was someone invited but turned it down? This is usually not good for someone's international career. Part of the unspoken "agreement" when getting on the FIFA list is that you will be available for international assignments, otherwise there is no point being on the list.

    Hopefully, we can see some of our newer guys getting some nice appointments in the future.
  20. whistleblowerusa

    whistleblowerusa BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    These are CONCACAF assignments not FIFA. CONCACAF understands that we do not have full time professional officials and that other matters take front seat in their lives. If someone was invited, which I don't think happened, they probably couldn't work it. Not being invited to a minor tournament for qualifying doesn't mean that US officials will not be used at the formal tournament. It does not mean anything negative at all for the US FIFA officials. There are many other matches going on regionally that US refs are working. Turning back an assignment is no big deal. Always turning back assignments is.
  21. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    What is your basis for this point of view? I think you are dead wrong here.
    If you believe that this does not mean anything negative, I will send you a nice letter I just got from a bank in Nigeria!

    Most other countries also do not have full-time pro officials, and in fact we do!
  22. whistleblowerusa

    whistleblowerusa BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    What basis are you making your statements! You are going by what you hear and not by what you know. I'm sure that that bank loves your business.
  23. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    OK, I guess after being made to look silly in your previous posts in this
    thread, you are going for a repeat.

    One way to avoid answering a question is to repeat the same question back. But this is not an answer to the question. Unless you can do that, I feel it is safe to conclude that in fact you have no basis for what you posted. The errors in your earlier posts tend to prove my point. Furthermore, you don't know what I know and what I don't know. For you this is a known unknown.

    Now, I will answer your question, which was initially my own.
    Yes, I do have direct knowledge of these matters. Several of the people
    I mentioned in my previous post are known to me personally, and this is where I learned about how things work at the CONCACAF and FIFA levels.
    I also know some others who turned down invites, usually for work reasons, and their careers didn't go anywhere. Note that many of the people who went to the tournaments had their own businesses and could take time off easily, or were teachers and had all summer off anyway. (I believe Mauro either quit his job, or lost it as a result of going to the WC in Italy for several weeks.)

    One more point: no Nigerian bank has my any of my business, so once again you are totally wrong in this conclusion! If such lack of direct information can lead you to make such statements, it is no wonder that your other posts contain incorrect assumptions also.

    PH
  24. whistleblowerusa

    whistleblowerusa BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2001
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    Are you serious? I was not wrong or incorrect before. You may have a different opinion, which is all you have, but I not wrong here, or on my other posts. You and a few others feel that because you say so it is good enough and always correct. You think because you say you know some of those mentioned that you are now the authority when it comes to CONCACAF or FIFA. One day when I feel it is the right time I will reveal who I am. But I am much closer to FIFA then you believe I am. The old myth of you turn down an assignment at this level is just wrong. If you do it more than once without a good cause you will not be considered. What you say happens has no basis on fact. Tell us one of your known buddies already mentioned who has had this happen. You can't because it hasn't. Vinnie may have lost a job but I don't think so. Give us some real info that can be verified. You made a statement now back it up with more than you say so. Stop hiding behind the fact that I asked you the same question you asked me.
    You opened your mouth now let's see your proof.
  25. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    I beg to differ.
    You asked for proof so here goes.

    1. Your response to my initial question:

    This clearly was incorrect as to why no US referee was there, and this was
    pointed out by the response from KMJVet:

    meaning those countries had referees there even though they were still playing.

    2. Your comment in post #15

    The first part is also incorrect as pointed out by MassRef in post #16

    and the second part is something different from your initial answer regarding which teams were still playing.

    I think the above proves that you were factually wrong in your previous posts.
    You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts, and then your own revisionist version of them.

    How do you know what I think and feel?

    I didn't say I was an authority on CONCACAF and FIFA, those are your words.
    But I think I am just as much of one as you are.
    If several successful people, both on the US list and from other countries, who have been to these types of tournaments tell me essentially the same things, I tend to believe them, and simply repeat that info here. If you don't accept it, OK, but it does not make it incorrect.
    It didn't happen to the guys I mentioned because they went to the tournaments, they didn't decline. But I do know others who couldn't go when invited and were not asked again. No, I am not naming them for obvious reasons.
    Other than saying you are close to FIFA whatever that means, you still have not provided any answer to my question about the basis for your points of view, whereas I did. You may not like my basis, but I did provide it.

    BTW, what proof can you provide that you are indeed "close to FIFA"?
    Every grade 3 referee who is not too old can be considered close to FIFA I suppose, but I don't think that is what you mean. Anyway being close is not the same as being there.

    I must admit that I cannot understand your actions here. First you get involved in an argument with KMJVet, then with MassRef, and now with me.
    All I did was ask two simple questions. This type of blustering does not help anyone, so I am not going to respond to any more of your illogical rants.

    PH

Share This Page