Comparing the development of great young English players

Discussion in 'Premier League: News and Analysis' started by rymannryan, Nov 5, 2002.

  1. THFCfan New Member

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Location:
    Westchester, NY
    Landon Donovan is good, but Wayne Rooney is a little better at 16 than Landon is at 20. And Rooney doesn't whine constantly (that I know of)
          
  2. Clan Moderator

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2002
    How 'bout them clarets :p
  3. Wildman262 New Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2001

    THF, I will take your word for it. Clan no blood no foul. lol.
  4. theleftymop New Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It's too bad the World Cup went to so many people's heads.
  5. Wildman262 New Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2001
    leftymop, there are no big heads. The fact of the matter is that the US had a very good showing at the cup. The final 8 is not a shabby performance, no matter how they got there. I've heard arguements that if the Koreans wouldn't have beat Portugal, the US never would have went on. Of course this is true and the same could be said about other teams in each of the other brackets.

    -The US had held on for a 3-2 win against a technically better Portugal.
    - The US played so-so against South Korea in a tie.
    - They were soundly beat by the Poles.
    - The US looked better than Mexico in a 2-0 win, (which is a team the US has done very well against in recent years)
    - The US looked the better team against Germany in a 1-0 defeat in the final 8. The Germans escaped on that day. In the previous meeting only months before that, the US 4-2 in a friendly and the looked like schoolboys against the Germans.
  6. el_urchinio New Member

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2002
    Carlton Palmer played in Premiership AND played for England. Either way, in his prime, I wouldn't have picked him for my Sunday league team.
  7. sinner78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2001
    Palmer was an under-rated player...
    He was an awkward defensive midfielder who gave 110% every game .He wasn;t reallly international class but he was alright at club level.
  8. Matt Clark Member

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Landon Donovan might get a game at somewhere like West Brom or Birmingham City, I suppose. But as has already been pointed out, getting a game means nothing. Bjorn Tore Kvarme plays in the “best league in the World” for Osasuna. Vinny Samways also treads the green in Spain.

    By and large, a player who cannot get regular action in the Bundesliga is nothing to get all sticky in the seam about.

    Relativity. A wonderful thing.
  9. Wildman262 New Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Matt, Donovan is turning into a decent player. I rate him in the top 20% of English players in the premiership. There a few English players of that caliber starting at clubs better than West Brom and Birmingham.
  10. Matt Clark Member

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Of course YOU rate him in the top 20% of English players. Let’s see - there are 179 Englishmen in the Premiership … so you are basically saying that he is somewhere in amongst the top 36 English players in the Premier League. So you would need to draft that list wouldn’t you?

    I dunno, does he come above or below the likes of Matt Jansen, David Dunn and Franny Jeffers? All of whom are not making any notable progression toward regular full honours with England? Or is he a bit more peripheral even than that? You know - Chris Powell or Seth Johnson territory?

    No … hang on. You’re aiming a little higher, right? What with English players being so bad. You’re probably thinking around the Paul Scholes mark, right?

    LOL!

    I say again ... West Brom or Birmingham. He might give the likes of Darren Purse or Jason Koumas a run for their money.
  11. Pigs Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Location:
    England
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Country:
    England
    Hehe, Rooney has only just turned 17. He's got a whole YEAR to go before you can say whether Alan Smith did better than him.

    Did Alan Smith score in the Prem at 16? No, neither did Michael Owen.
  12. kingwho New Member

    Member Since:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Location:
    Minneapolis

    damn i am getting way off topic here
    ha ha

    lets take a look shall we

    landon donovan vs michael owen:

    we all know owen is one of the best playing the game right now

    these two guys come from different football worlds
    one has the highest quality training and 100 years of tradition
    the other is from a strong up and comer with a lot of support and opportunities

    the two have never performed in the same league so its tough to compare them directly

    but you can make comparisons on their world cup performances

    owen
    two years old than dovovan
    striker
    played in france 98 and korea/japan 02
    has been in 9 wc games
    has scored 4 goals

    donovan
    two years younger than owen
    midfielder/striker
    played in korea/japan 02
    has in in 5 wc games
    has scored 3 goals
  13. Pigs Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Location:
    England
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Country:
    England

    LMFAO!
  14. Wildman262 New Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2001
    He might give the likes of Darren Purse or Jason Koumas a run for their money.

    Matt, players like the above grow on trees France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Brazil, and even the US. Donovan would be a valuable player for many of the clubs in the Premiership. I stand by the top 20% list.

    It might please you to know that I put Reyna in that same top 20% list, and Friedel and Keller are in in the top 10% list for keepers.

    It might also please you to know that I put Joe Max Moore in the top 30% list as compared to English Premiership players.
  15. Matt Clark Member

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 1999
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Comedy is always pleasing. Rampant delusion less so, but as it's exclusively your problem around here, I shan't be losing any sleep over it.

    JMM is not even in the top 30% of Everton strikers. He's utter pap.

    Agree on Keller and Friedel, but then even a "what is Heysel" debutante can pull that one out. They're both good keepers. Friedel in particular has improved immeasurably since we first picked him up from Columbus.

    As to Koumas and Purse, - never mind France and Spain and elsewhere, they grow on trees in places like Wales and the Black Country too. Glad you're finally with me.

    ROFL!
  16. Stinkey Turner Member

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2000
    C'mon you guys, this guy is obviously taking the piss and trying to wind you up. I'm a Yank and I don't even rate Moore in the top 30% of American Players! And yes, Donovan is decent(as are about a 1000 others), but he is also overated by many American fans.
  17. Pigs Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Location:
    England
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Country:
    England

    01. Kevin Campbell
    02. Thomas Radzinski
    03. Wayne Rooney
    04. Duncan Ferguson
    05. Nick Chadwick
    06. Rodrigo


    That is the current line of strikers that believe it or not (ARE AHEAD) of Joe Max Moore for actually starting for EVERTON. Joe Max Moore doesn't even get in the reserves anymore.

    Being the 7th choice Everton striker isn't good news.
  18. Pigs Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Location:
    England
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Country:
    England
    Michael Owen at age 18 scored 21 goals in the Premiership. Then he scored an amazing goal against Argentina in the WC98. The next season, aged 19 he scored 23 goals in the Premiership.

    First player to score a hatrick against Germany since Hurst in 66'. European Player of the Year 2001. Current Premiership top goalscorer. Scored more goals for England than ANY other former Liverpool player. (hes only 22). He's been a regular Liverpool player since he was 18 years of age.

    Do you really think Landon Donovan compares?

    Although Donovan scored 3 goals at the WC, what is his ratio for the USA? goals per game compared to owen?
  19. superdave Member+

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1999
    Location:
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    Matt (and some others), I think you're underrating Landon, in part because you don't know some of the facts. He left Bayer when he was only 18, and has been in MLS since. He isn't playing in the Bundesliga at 20 much like McManaman isn't in the Faroe Islands league. I don't think that means McManaman isn't good enough for the FI league.

    And before anyone goes there...Rooney looks to be a wonderful talent, and at an incredibly young age. IIRC, the poster who first brought up Landon made reference to Rooney scoring 2 at WC '06. Unless I'm missing something, that would, in fact, be a great, great feat. For that to happen 1) England would have to qualify, 2) Rooney would have to get playing time ahead of Owen, Vassell, Smith, etc. and 3) he'd have to bag two.

    If the poster's point was to compare the players, he's off the mark. But Landon's resume is pretty impressive for a 20 year old, and in the specific case, frankly, I'll bet Rooney doesn't score 2 at WC '06.
  20. 655321 New Member

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Location:
    The Mission, SF
    Pure f'ing comedy. Guys, c'mon. Why are even comparing these two players??
  21. Pigs Member

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Location:
    England
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Country:
    England
    I think I now understand the term "Only in America"
  22. strider026 New Member

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Location:
    Huh

    I think LD was last in Germany when he was 18. You are correct he was not getting playing time.
  23. Jordan New Member

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 1999
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Maybe you should get your facts straight. Donovan scored 2 NOT 3 goals in 5 games.
    http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/en/t/t/pl/175507/index.html
  24. Clan Moderator

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Jesus christ, now the yanks are starting to predict the leading scorers in the next WC..Four years away yet :rolleyes:

    Landon ......who?
  25. Wildman262 New Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Clan, he was the kid that scored more goals than anyone on the English squad besides Owen. He and Owen both had 2.

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