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Discussion in 'Ecuador' started by colombiavive, Apr 6, 2012.
Aver ecuatorianos quero ver tus opiniones.
the best in the world. colombia can produce some of the best defenders and goal keepers in the continent. We produce great talent from the midfield up. I've thought about this before, we'd dominate everyone.
Unamos el thread aca
Colombia in the last years the worst thing that is producing is defense(our rb and lb)....in this NT is our weak point.....and our goalkeeper Ospina(is far to become a Cordoba or a Mondragon) is just decent...............Our best players in this moments are offensives!, Falcao, James and Guarin.....
Answered the thread here http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1928723
im speaking historically/in general.
Two medicore @ best teams would produce a medicore @ best team
Anyone care to comment on this? Here is a proposed team from that thread:
I keep our current team honestly. I might sub out our 2 CBs for another 2 Colombian CBs. I don't really rate Ecuadors or Venezulea's higher than ours. Only player I realistically want is Antonio Valencia but even then I think I'd prefer Pabon who has been beastily for us. Valencia also plays at LB for Man United but I prefer Armero there. Also James is a LW not RW.
Vargas - Santa Fe
Quintero - Nacional
Arias - SPorting
Quinonez - Junior
Juan David Valenca
Antonio Valencia - Ecuador
Jefferson Montero - Ecuador
Tomás Rincón - Venezulea
José Salomón Rondón - Venezulea
don't worry man is crzd.......
this is a tough one, well colombia hasn't been in the world cup for over a decade and Ecuador has finished ahead in the past 3 world cups. Also Ecuador seem to have much more star players in offense, in fact I cant think of any other offensives besides Falcao, Guarin and James rodriguez, sure there is good players in the mexican league like Jackson Martinez, Quintero etc.. but Benitez and other ecuadorian players such as Joao rojas, Suarez, Ayovi, Arroyo, etc rule that league... ALso great ecuadorian players in Brazil such as Joffre Guerron and Carlos Tenorio and soon the Argentine Hernan BArcos. In argentina theres is two huge wonderkids in river plate AND A FEW OTHERS IN Spain including one in barca. Not to mention the great Antonio Valencia currently considered the best winger in the premier league, Jefferson Montero revelation player in LA LIGA, Noboa and Caicedo and now Renato Ibarra all in europe. However I do agree with the previous comment that Colombia has produced better defenders I dont agree with the GK part though. Anyway I think this would be somewhat of a realistic lineup
GK- Alexander Dominguez
RB- Camilo Zuniga
CB- Fricson Erazo
CB- Christian Zapata
LB- Pablo Armero
RM- Antonio Valencia
CM- Christian Noboa
CM- Freddy Guarin
LW- Jefferson Montero
FW- Radamel Falcao
FW- Christian Benitez/Felipe Caicedo
Note: Overall I am sure Falcao is a better striker than any other ecuadorian or colombian striker out there.
I Like your line up, but you are forgetting venezuela.....Especially amorebieta, maybe rincon or rondon have scored a lot of goals in an important goal(i know that caicedo did last season too)
Much more stars in offense? that is relative.....
I don't know if montero is better than james, that is a debate he is the youngest foreign player in argentina to won a league and was a starter, know with porto is the third top scorer in liga sagres and the king of assitances, he scored on UCL and won a europa league, montero have been great in medium team, that is good.....you start to presuming wonder kids that don't play with river still....but we have, cuadrado and muriel from lecce, that have interested arsenal, milan, inter according to press, for the first one is cost is estimated in 40 millions according to udinese(i know that price is ridiculous for player that haven't be NT), ortega played in bayern leverkusen and is 20, ibarbo from cagliari have been a good wing......a lot of the player that you name for a lot of people arround thew they aren't stars.....We have in argentina Gio Moreno and Teo Gutierrez(top scorer of the league a year ago) and maybe for you they are not stars, also ramos from hertha berlin scores with frequency in hertha .....As if you don't know a lot of our players that I'm saying, i can say the same about a lot of you named....that is my point, i don't judge you because you ignore a lot of our players because surely you don't know, as i don't know a lot of that you mentioned
And that mexican league isn't that great, .....Rey have been top soccer like 3 times, and he hasn't been a regular in nt, edixon perea that is a shitty player scores there, there was andres chitiva that was idol in pacha and was champion a lot of time and he wasn't art of the NT....you can't say that players that are stars int hat league are stars for all.....Jackson, will be sold this summer to europe and i think that it would be more expensive if benitez some day leave america..........actually i don't like martinez
And with all respect who is alexander dominguez?, ospina is a goalkeeper in france since he is 21.....
ps: nowadays, colombian defenses sucks.....zapata soulhd be out of that line up....i will pick up amorebieta o vizcarrondo
I'm not trying to be an a-hole but honestly I don't see any Venezuelan player in a certain position as better than Colombian or Ecuadorian players with maybe the exception of Juan Arango who is a class player.
I agree.. I am aware that James is a great player and he is a bit younger than Montero so he cold turn out better,however I dont consider him better than Montero, not trying to be biased I actually rate Montero higher than Valencia meaning I consider him the best ecuadorian player at the moment. I am sure he has the quality to be in a big team, I have seen him destroy the best fullbacks in the world playing at Betis and Villarreal but thats just my opinion.
Very good arguements and I am glad your calmly pointing these things out. Excuse my ignorance about your players but Ill be happy to find out more about them. Although I do have to tell you that I do know some of these colombian players you mention, not all but some I do. The point I tried to make in my first post was that I don't see these colombian players as the main stars of their teams even though they are good players. About the rumors of big clubs interests, I simply ignore them, we have so many ecuadorian players supposively atrracking interests from top clubs, Chelsea is after 3 of our players, Real MAdrid after 2 Barca after another etc but I honestlythink is b.s. at least until I see them really get transfered. One of the kids in River Juan Cazares(rated very highly)did have his debut, the other abel casquette is even a bigger talent and their is even interest in calling him to the u-17 argentina national team also the kid joel Valencia debuted against real madrid in la liga at the age of 16 but at that age is too young 2 tell if they will really turn out to be class
I couldnt agree more, I honestly don't take pride in Benitez because I know he's not a star in europe yet. Your right about all that we have shitty players like Guagua and Borja on the mexican league and they are seen as stars even though they're sh*t.. About Martinez I personally think he definitely has what it takes to be in european football.
Dominguez is the main GK at LDU has won copa libertadores, copa sudamericana, 2 recopas etc with them team. He is recognized by many reporters of fox sports as one of the best GK in southamerica and has offers from italian teams like Fiorentina but once again just rumors for now. I know Ospina has been playing in France but he hasn't impressed me so much. I see Colombia as a kick ass team and their defenders seem very gifted to me the only problem I see with the team is lack of good Goalkeepers, not trying to be disrespectfull but the Colombian Goallkeepers seem to always eat the most ridiculous goals including Calero and Ospina. Other than that finishing seemed to be a big problem although their is good strikers with great finishing like Falcao, I just think the lack of goals in colombia is a matter of bad luck. Oh and didnt Colombia have one of the top 3 defenses in the past qualifiers??
Valencia --------- ---------James
Ospina isn't my favorite....but at this moment he is our best option, Calero i always hated him, he believed that he was of the cordoba and mondragons level( mondragon could returned at 41, he is amazing in league)
I dont remember the last stats...i lost the faith of quality since the half of the qualify round, so i only watched the matches .........Nowadays yepes that is 37 isn't playing since he is injured in november, Perea isn't playing as cb in athletic and not is always starter, until this moment zap at start to improve in villareal, mosquera is our best cb but he is not so trustily for all(mexi league player that failed in spain)...because our desperate moment in defense, we called up a guy Bernanrdo from racing santader, that people think that is our savior because he is starter in spain...
Falcao is exelent but he have been a victim of our terrible coaches tactics....with pekerman things maybe will be different, (with leonel and gomez, he improved a lot )
i like to join both threads..
Funny thing esque habrian dos ballet azules Millonarios y Emelec
Aguinaga y Valderrama en la misma seleccion? Ademas en el Tin Delgado el Tino Asprilla hubiera tenido remplaso
Gourcuff seems confused. I admit, colombia has lots more players in quality teams/leagues than us. Im surprised to even see these comparisons. Lots of the players Gourcuff named are like 15-19 years old on the COME UP. Youth divisons. Cant compare that to James Rodriguez, Guarin, Cuadrado, etc.
Gourcuff, Colombia has way more players than we do in top leagues. And yes they are important/key players to their teams. Check it out for yourself. Player by player we are no way better than Colombia. Maybe in the past decade + we've been able to construct a stronger NT than theirs but player by player they out number us in quantity and quality. Not to say we dont have lots of upcoming talent, but they're still havent reached their full potential so theres no way to even argue this right now. We'll just let the world see it when its time. But for now, Colombia has the better players.
Ospina has been great in France. He's recognized as one of the best goalkeepers in the country and pretty much attributed as single handedly keeping his team from descending to the B League. Have you ever read any french forums or watched the actual french league?
Also one of Colombians greatest strength's have been goalkeeper. Everything Ecuador knows in Goalkeeping was brought over from Colombia. We had greats like Pedro Zape and Caiman Sanchez who were considered the best in south America back in the 60s and 70s! We had Higuita who was world famous. We had Oscar Cordoba and Farid Mondragon who were at points amongst the best in the world. We had Henao and Calero who despite not being as great and Cordoba and Mondragon were still considered leading stars in their leagues. We had Zapta and Viafara who were the best black goalkeepers in the world in their prime. We have others like Neco Martinez and Augustin Julio who were really good or continue to be good. We had great youth talents throughout the u17 and u20 world cup in the 00's with Libis Arenas and Landazuri and David Ospina the current national team goalie. We continue to have promising youth goalies like Victor Bonilla who was bought by Manchester City and Andres Mosquera.
If there's anything that Colombia has the best of it is most certainly Goalkeepers. I think Colombia undoubtedly has the best Goalkeepers in the history of South America. They are certainly ages ahead of Argentina. And while Brazil may have had two or three good ones in the past 20 years they certainly don't have the depth of goalkeepers to choose from.
You need to understand mistakes don't necessarily mean a goalkeeper is bad. All goalkeepers make mistakes, and not all mistakes need to be blamed on the goalkeepers. The majority of goals given up by Colombian goalkeeper in 2009-2012 are the fault of a aging defense who make horrible mistakes themselves, like the game versus Peru. There's not a single goalkeeper in the world who could have prevented the goal caused by Yepe's mistake.
As for those claiming any of the other fullbacks in Ecuador or Venezuela are better than Zuniga and Armero you're completely insane. Those are both starters with Napoli and Udinese. Considered the best young fullbacks in the league. And probably the best fullbacks in South America after Daniel Alves.
I agree with this 100%. THANK YOU!
Gorcouff lined up in his team...zuñiga and armero as starter why you are arguing that?
Goalies like Julio and Neco should exist all around the world,and ecuador, Bonilla haven't been bought by city that is a bogus info, Landazuri and Libis whoo are they in this moment? they are shitty players, and that mosquera didn't showed up skills, the fact that he was goal keeper from the u 20 doesn't mean that he is good,............the fact that Mondragon that have 41 years, is being consider again in the national team, only show that we have a huge problem finding a good sub in that position......
solo que agustin Julio se retiro hace 5 meses y que landazuri se quedo en promesa, al igual que libis arenas. Lo de mas esta mas o menos cerca de la realidad.
encontrar un arquero hoy en dia en la gran colombia esta como berraco!!! Un arquero que haga la diferencia
algun arquero de la gran colombia ha jugado N la LIGA o il calccio?
ni siquiera se acercan a EPL....no podemos pensar que es nuestro punto fuerte.
Without a doubt Colombia has produced some world-class goalkeepers but saying they are the best in South America is just ignorant. Names you missed: Taffarel, Leão, Julio César, Rogeiro Cení, Dida, Abbondanzieri, Carlos Roa, Goycochea and even Cevallos. Once again, Colombia has produced many great goalkeepers but I'd say right in line with Argentina and Brazil, not necessarily above or below.
And the claim that Zuniga and Armero are the best fullbacks in South America, once again you are unbelievably Colombia-centric. Names to consider (many, if not all, I would say are better): Maicon (Inter), Marcelo (Real Madrid), Fabio da Silva (Manchester United), Pablo Zabaleta (Manchester City), Juan Manuel Vargas (Fiorentina), Maxi Pereira (Benfica), Jorge Fucile (Santos)
Do you still disagree?
I disagree with juan m vargas...en esa ultima lista.
tampoco creo que armero y zuniga esten al nivel de marcelo o de los grandes carrileros de suramerica en espana.
Armero se lleva a marcelo en nivel....
Zuñiga no creo
Y se comieron en la lista a alavaro pereira
I mean Armero es 2ndo en asistencias en el Calcio por ensima de Pirlo... (tiene 9)
Pero Marcelo no es ningun pintao en la pared ademas tiene gol
ES UNA comparacion fuera de contesto
juegan en dos mundos y acompanados de dos grp MUY diferentes....
\si fuera Pablo tan cotizado en nivel, estaria en un club mas grande y jugando competencias internacionales. Hasta Maxwel el otro braca del barca era mas y creo que esta perdido en una liga obscura.
que otro carrilero del Ecuador o venezuela podemos considerar?
Maxwell era un suplenton en el inter de miedo....O este otro brasilero rafinha del bayern, que fue un fracaso completo en el calcio y ahora es titular con los teutones
Efer,la ventaja de los juagdores argentinos y brazileros sobre los demas de sudamerica todavia existe
.....armero apenas ha tneidos dos temporadas en europa apneas, luego de ser exelente en brazil y ahora parece que el milan esta muy interesado en el para reforzar su ala izquierda, marcelo la tuvo muy facil para llegar al madrid sin descrestar antes a alguien.....si armero fuera brazilero ya estaria por lo menos en el barsa