Coaching Ideas for U8s

I think Reyna's curriculum wants to accelerate things a bit. Things are trending younger these days, and my guess is that USYS would get on board with Reyna.

Not entirely sure that's a good thing, of course. A few people who did quite well in their playing careers are skeptical about shoving kids into hyperorganized soccer at a young age. Maybe kids should just be *playing* in the elementary school years (not to say you can't teach them skills) and enjoying several sports.

 

That's a good comment. The more players out there, the bigger the field, the more a coach feels compelled to organize those players, and the less a kid just plays (and the less a coach encourages the kid to just play).

I'm not so sure USYS would fall in line. Talking to folks (for example, our state DOC; and the instructors for my National Y), they seem pretty committed to keeping the numbers down and the touches up at the younger levels. I believe there is some "science" to the USYS recommendations; I'm not sure Reyna's curriculum enjoys the same support.

In the grand scheme, I'm not sure this makes a heck of a difference - essentially, Reyna's recommendations moves up the recommended age for "real" soccer (what my wife likes to call it) by one year, from U9 to U8. I don't think the US Soccer world will stop spinning on its axis if some clubs are playing U8's at 7v7 and some clubs are still playing 4v4, since at U9 those players will all be in essentially the same place. The issue that does concern me, though, is what to do with the typical (at least around here) U8 league, which consists of U7's and U8's. Do you play 4v4 (depriving the U8's of Reyna's recommended 7v7) or 7v7 (forcing the U7's to play with more players on the field than either USYS or Reyna recommends)?

 

I admitted I was unable to handle the sideline its why I am on here looking for advice as well as reaching out to other coaches in the league. I have read online about U8 soccer I know I am not alone in not being able to instantly handle substitutions properly. I am glad you posted though it really allowed me to think more from the parents perspective and reevaluate some of my mistakes.

In my instance it wasn't one player that was playing in the 60% range it was 3-4 players most games while the others played a bit more however the parent that came to me felt it was just 2. As I described in an earlier post I had a core group and I was subbing out the players around them.

My intent was not to delay their progression in the sport I honestly felt that having them play while they were engaged in the game and subbing them out when I felt they began to become to disengaged from the game would work fine and not delay their development. I felt and after having read elessar78's post I will admit I was wrong that they weren't improving as soccer players if they were having prolonged periods out in the field were they were not engaged in the game. I always intended to play them more as they where able to focus on the game longer and that was happening they were playing longer but still less then some of the other players. I honestly didn't think equal playing time for all was the best approach in allowing them all to develop. I felt developing a lineup that could gain more possession so that we weren't just getting a few touches every game was the better approach. However now I intend to make equal playing time a point of emphasis.

 

Reyna and company certainly did a substantial amount of research backed by U.S. Soccer, but I think you're right that there may be some resistance.

And as you say, it might not be that big a deal. Frankly, it may depend on the kids involved. If they're enrolling in more advanced U8 programs, maybe they can move into 7-on-7.

As I blogged a little while ago, I'm a little skeptical of sticking with 4-on-4 at U8 because it's basically Year 3 or 4 of mob-ball, and I'm now seeing a couple of players with lovely ball skills who don't see the ball because they can't claim it from the ruck. We're 5-on-5 right now, and I'm trying -- slowly -- to teach positions and give other hints to spread the field.

 

You are addressing the right issues. The problem is complicated because you have to factor child development into your training plans. Most 6 and 7 year olds are not ready to play soccer like adults, i.e., an attractive possession style of play. They naturally want to chase the ball around the field. I think you will find Sam Snow's blogs very interesting reading.
http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/blog.asp?blogger_id=5

His September 7, 2010 blog is especially good as he compares what a coach should be teaching about tactics from one age group to another.

His September 29, 2010 blog is also very good as he discusses players learning how to stay focussed in matches.

His January 18, 2011 blog discusses the concept of age appropriate training.

No one person has all the answers, even Sam Snow. I am sure even he is constantly trying to learn more about coaching. It is the quest for improvement that makes us better. Keep up the good work.

 

They might. But there's also more incentive to spread it out a little.

 

I think that bunching around the ball is a product of the players' age and development, and not a product of 4v4 and 7v7, so I'd have to agree with the inference from elessar's post that 7v7 isn't going to solve the problem; indeed, it may exacerbate it, because now you have a dozen players chasing the ball instead of a half-dozen.

4v4 at U8 doesn't have to be mob ball. Quite to the contrary, 4v4 lends itself to introducing the concept of shape e.g., a diamond, which has natural depth and width to it. What I wouldn't be teaching is positions at this age. You're defense and you're offense and you're on the right and you're on the left is counterproductive to player development. When I get kids who ask me at U8, what position am I, I tell them that there are no positions: when we have the ball you're on offense and they have the ball you're on defense; everybody up; everybody back (but remember your shape!).

I have a U8 inhouse team and a U10 travel team. My older U8 kids actually play really nice soccer in a 4v4 format (dual field). They don't bunch, they move up and back as a unit, they move the ball around nicely (a couple of the kids are even sophisticated enough to think about switching fields), they do a pretty good job at maintaining width and depth--and this is just your average, run of the mill inhouse (rec) team, not an all-star team (although granted, I've been coaching some of them for multiple seasons, so they have a feel for what I'm trying to get them to do).

The newly formed U10 travel team I coach (7v7) does play a formation so positions are reinforced, but I like the kids to play fluidly and pretty compactly. Ironically, the kids I have the toughest time with are kids who come up from U8 or who also play U10 inhouse and who had coaches who did teach them positions. These kids know how to stay "in" their position but invariably have little clue how to actually "play" that position. They will man their given position without regard for where the ball is or what's actually happening on the field. This is most obvious with defenders. The kids will trail 30-40 yards behind the play for fear of leaving their defensive positions, they don't step up, and trying to teach pressure/cover (forget about balance) is hard because they've been taught to play in a horizontal line at the edge of the box--both pressure and cover are concepts which run counter to that style of defense.

This team had its first game a few weeks ago, and I had one group of three players rotate among the two defensive positions (we attempt to play a 2-3-1, a double diamond). We ended up giving up six goals, and the defense was complicit. They failed to link up with the midfield because they stayed too far back (leaving acres of space for the other team to attack with speed), didn't step up on attackers until they absolutely had to (and were frequently successful in winning those tackles, but if possession was not won or immediately lost, we were under dangerous pressure, rather than having a whole half a field to recover; if possession was won, because there was such a separation between MF and D, the tendency was to just hoof it up field), failed to maintain any depth whatsoever, and were too spread out. Last week, three new players rotated through on defense, and they did all the things that the other group didn't (and the team conceded only two goals en route to winning). They kept in contact with the midfield and maintained a high defensive line. The one defender, in particular, was masterful at stepping up and broke things up before the other team could develop any rhythm or penetrate deeply into our defensive half of the field, and was more than willing to move forward with the ball, effectively switching with another player. Meanwhile, one of the other defenders stepped up as necessary, but also did a nice job covering for the other defender, and was also quite adept at trying to build from the back when she won possession (which she could do, because the MF was no more than 8-10 yards from her). No real difference in talent or experience between the two groups, but the first group had all been "taught" how to play a defensive position by inhouse coaches, while the second group had not.

 

What's the incentive? I don't think there's any more or less incentive to spread out at that age group. In fact, if I had to argue the case, it seems that the carrot for spreading out, i.e., receiving the ball in open space, perhaps with a clear path towards goal, is greater 4v4 than 7v7, because the smaller field and the smaller number of players makes it easier for a player on the ball to pass the ball to, and reach, the player in usable space.

 

How do you teach a shape but not positions?

Seriously -- that's roughly what I'm trying to do. I don't care if someone's a "left back," but I'd like them to break out of the mob a bit. And I tried to get them to play with two "defenders" because they were always nominating one guy to play "defense" by sitting in the goal. I'd rather have a couple of people hang back slightly.

 

While not the most competitive or dynamic activity, set them up in a diamond and have them pass the ball to each other (if you've got 5 players, park one in the middle of the diamond). A triangle works too. Another way you can do this is to set up a diamond with four cones (or a triangle with three), and have the players pass around the outside of the diamond (not through, at least at first). Then morph that into a game of keep-a-away in a confined space. This may be a bit old for them, but I really like the triangle and square keep away games. In the triangle game you set up a triangle with 7-yard legs and assign three players and one ball to the triangle. One player is in the middle of the triangle playing defense and can't leave it; the other two players are on the outside of the triangle and pass the ball to each other through the triangle, trying for the pass to not be picked off by the defender. In the square game, set up a 10x10 square, with three players on the outside of the square and one player playing defense in the square. Same basic idea--players pass the ball ball through the square trying to keep ball away from defender, who can't leave the square. The players really have to move to maintain possession, maintaining a triangle shape.

Play passing by the numbers, e.g., assign each player a number, and one has to pass to two, and two to three, etc. After a few minutes, start being proactive and work on the player's movement; stop and point out when they are in a nice diamond or triangle, or when they are too bunched.

During scrimmages, occasionally stop play and point out when the players are in a diamond and compliment. Similarly, stop play when they are bunched ("Freeze"), and then move them around so that they are in a diamond shape. Use guided discovery. Where do you want to be; where's a good place to be; now what shape do you see?

Play SSG games which encourage players to think about their shape. For example, in a SSG, set up multiple goals within the field, with players getting points for passing through the goals. Arrange the goals in such a way as to nudge the players to keep their shape (e.g., arrange the goals in diamond shapes (one near the middle of each goal line, one each along the offensive and defensive sides, and one in the middle of the field). Another game I like to play is on a short but wide field, with multiple (usu. 3) goals on each goal line. This is great for encouraging players to keep some width (the carrot here is if the play is on the right side goal, and you stay middle or left, chances are a quick pass to you will result in a goal), but also depth, because sometimes you have drop back to be open.

 

I'm actually teaching shape through positions, but not rigid positions. We're playing 4v4 with a forward, left/right mid and defender. The positions though only relate to responsibilities for restarts:
forward takes the kick-off and is up-field for throw-ins
left mid does throw-ins and corners from the left side, right mid on the right
defender takes goal kicks
The key to the shape during play relates to player responsibilities, which are general and not position specific:
1) If you have the ball, your only options are dribble, pass or shoot - no booting it away or out of bounds
2) If you don't have the ball, then get in position to receive a pass. One player should be behind the play for a back pass and to cover for losing the ball, one to the side for a square pass, and one forward.
The location of these players may relate to their position or not, depending on the flow of the game. This is key because the defender has freedom to dribble up the field also and someone needs to slide behind to provide cover in transition.
On defense, we have 2 players attacking the ball with one providing cover behind and one further up-field for an outlet pass when we win the ball. All players are responsible for winning the ball back when lost, which is why we sometimes have the forward as the last player - when the defender dribbles up-field, if no one has moved to cover back yet.

The biggest advantage this gives me is that I don't have to keep directing who takes a restart (throw-in or kick). Instead I can stay quiet and allow the players to figure it out. With frequent subs, I rotate the players through each position. When they sub off I give them pointers about where they were playing, let them get a drink and then tell them where they are going in next with some pointers.

This feedback with open experimentation on the field has helped them to advance in their teamwork tremendously. Sure, sometimes it breaks down into what looks like bunch ball, but that's perfectly ok at this age. This is a transition period from individual play to teamwork. Players should be encouraged to take the ball on the dribble and try to beat defenders, leading to the defense calapsing around them sometimes. It's a fun challenge to see how they can get out of that problem, and with the freedom to experiment many of my players have learned to turn and pass to their back support in order to switch fields around the other team.

The kids aren't going to figure all of this out through a couple of lectures or simple concepts. They need time, freedom to experiment, and some intelligent direction. Your job as coach is to be patient in these areas and keep them focusing on the positives. Use the mistakes you see as ideas for your next practice session, but don't dwell on them with the players. Build-up their self-confidence through positive encourage based on the good plays they make, and you will see them repeating those things over and over again.

 

I've assigned a dad to take care of subs. I give him a printout of the "schedule" of minutes (which obviously works only if the parents tell me who is going to play and who isn't!) These 6 are my starters. After 5 minutes, Alice and Barbara sub in for Carolyn and Debbie. He sends my Alice and Barbara at 4 to 4 1/2 minutes and I give them some quick reminders about what they should be focusing on.

 

I use something similar to this that I made. It's a page of four "fields" that have the corresponding quarters in them and the starting positions listed as they line up on the field, the team we're playing, date of game, and captains for the game. The night before I write down the starters of each quarter above the position and the sub for that position under it, working out my rotations and playing time.

Then I fold it into quarters, grab a pen and I have an easy reference for each quarter of the game as well as something to take notes on. I scratch out names and add new ones as the game progresses due to injuries, kids wanting to play in different spots, etc. After the game I can use it as evidence if a parent questions playing time, or look at it later to see if that rotation works better than others.

It seems like overkill, but on game day I'm always prepared for subs and rotation. I'll link to the PDF of it later if anyone's interested or wants to use it as a reference.

 

I would like to see it as reference.

Thank you all for your replies this was very helpful

 

Just to ditto Equus. Making the list and taking note of playing time is the only way for me to effectively keep track of everything and makes it 1000 times easier to address parent questions.

 

7v7 Sheet

 

I started making a list of my starting players and my subs beforehand but I had a problem with certain people not showing up on time. I tried to make things as even as possible but because of the parents there were a few girls who only got to start one or two games. I got to the point where I just used the first five that showed up as my starting 5 and (we play 6v6 with a GK) praying that one of my two pre-assigned keepers actually show up early.
I want to try giving the duty of assigning subs and positions off to a parent but none of the parents had any soccer background except for one other who coaches at a local high school. But he wanted to stay away from coaching his daughter for personal reasons so even at game time he would sit far from our field to resist shouting something that would be ok at a high school but maybe not ok at U8.
By the end of the season I started to use a coaches clipboard/whiteboard thing where the first five were added as they arrived and they usually had some say as to which position they would play. The next few girls were added after they showed up so that by kickoff we had one half of the game planned out. Before each quarter was over I would hand the whiteboard to one of the team captains (two were needed for each game for coin toss) and had them ensure everyone knew which position they should start in.
It worked, I guess but I wish I had a full 12 girls on the team so that I could just sub in one half for the other at quarters and give advice to the girls not playing. Maybe I just need an assistant coach or something.

 

I have a tendency to over think things when I worry. I know it, and I've used that to my advantage for lots of situations. Its what drives me to learning new things and practice on my own.
I only really assign positions as an easy way to describe rolls and to designate where people stand at kickoff and things like that... at U8 my positions include: Right, Middle, Left, Forward and Defender. But after kickoff, everyone but the defender goes wherever they want. I'll work more on getting the defender to stay with the action instead of hanging back the whole time, I already have two good examples on the team, now it's just a matter of getting the rest to follow suit.

 

Don't worry too much. There is a constant need for the coach to balance long term player development versus winning matches. Doesn't matter if you are coaching U10 rec players or the national U23 Olympic team. The circumstances may change and the relative importance you put on development versus results changes, but the tension between these two goals remains. Like the players, we coaches do what we think is best and learn from our mistakes. Good luck!

 

Thanks. As I said, I know I overthink things and worry a lot before the season starts but it's something I've got into the habit of doing from voulenteer fire department stuff: "worry about the small stuff before an incident so that when it's time to act, we can act. Make a plan and work the plan. If you go through your contingencies, improvise, adapt and overcome"
So thanks for the encouraging words and I hope everyone has an awesome season

 

Can you elaborate on what you're talking about here? Not sure if this is the most precise way to say it, but I'm struggling with the not liking positions and the restrictions that they (implicitly or otherwise) impose on the kids at this young age level but seeing the value in using them as a means of explaining some of the concepts to the kids.

Thanks.

 

In your view what is the purpose of positions? In my view that purpose exists in 11v11 competitive soccer, but not in developmental SSG for pre-teens. The whole point of using SSG for pre-teens is to eliminate positions. This allows them to learn the principles of play by trial and error. If they are not free to roam (and free to make tactical mistakes), then they won't learn the principles of play. Instead they learn that particular coach's positions for 4v4 which is different than 5v5, 6v6, etc or another coach's positions for 4v4 even. Which is something that is not helpful in the long run for 11v11 competitive soccer.

A developmental coach's job is not to establish a system of play that prevents players from making tactical mistakes. You need to train the player's brain to think, not make the decisions for them. You need to design your training activities to not only force specific activities, but also to present tactical choices. That was what was orginally meant 40 years ago by the triangle theory of drill design. You need to include at least one option in a drill so that the brain is trained along with the motor skills.