Club lines

Discussion in 'Referee' started by IARef96, Apr 6, 2014.

  1. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm fairly sure I've worked games in the same adult leagues as you and I actually did the opposite. I didn't whistle unless I was certain and I let the teams know in advance not to expect the whistle, that I was obviously alone and would do the best I could and it will be the same for both teams. I never had that message be poorly received and the players adjusted. For me, a combination of communication and workrate went a long way.
     
  2. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    What do you guys do when you have only one AR?
     
  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Cheat on positioning to be able to see better at that end (but not too much) and tell the AR you may need more help at end as you may be further behind on some plays. And trust the AR. (Kinda like you do when you realize that even though there are two guys in bumblebee shirts holding flags, you only have one AR, if you know what I mean . . . .)
     
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  4. Billy South Philly

    Jan 28, 2013
    Newtown Square, PA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depends on the AR. If he is some newbie or some AR I don't rate, I cover a lot more ground and don't give as much leeway on foul selection. If I rate the AR, I concede more quadrant space to the AR and I cover the back with a wider diagonal. This is highly contingent on your previous communication/ experience with that AR.
     
  5. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    OK thanks. That's consistent with my own practice.

    And I assume you either employ a club line in the vacant space or not, depending on your own predisposition towards club lines? (Wasn't there some guidance at one point that indicated use of club lines was preferred to going without, or did I dream that?)
     
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  6. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I believe that was a directive - maybe in the old ATR (I didn't go back to look)? But the 2014 ATR is pretty clear that the referee "may" use club lines (and continues with the directive that they provide in and out only).
     
  7. RespectTheGame

    May 6, 2013
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    interesting those of you that don't use them. We are required to have 3 "officials" even if they are club lines. One is not an option.
     
  8. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    In the spirit of no duals on any USSF-sanctioned game, I've even heard the interpretation (here?) that if you only have one AR, they either cannot work the game (single ref only) or they get demoted to club line status (with an additional recruited club line). Can't say I've done this myself though.
     
  9. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    That is simply wrong. The concept is that there is only one referee -- that is why you can't have a dual. See http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/?p=738
     
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  10. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    FWIW, here's what the last Administrative Handbook I can find (2010-11 ... is there a newer one?) had to say about this:
     
  11. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    #36 Pierre Head, Apr 8, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
    The reason they play at those times is because of the professional games that many of the players want to go to on the weekend afternoons. Remember the games at this level are played for the benefit and enjoyment of the players themselves. It is their choice, not the local or national FA. Furthermore, many people who referee also want to go to the pro games, so they might not be available for weekend afternoon matches either. The availability of referees is not a major criterion in deciding when to schedule games.
    One other point is that people are not as content to run lines/AR as they are in the US. They much prefer having the whistle until they get to the very high levels, when it is more of an honor.
    As for weeknights, there are not a lot of amateur fields that have floodlights, so it is not really an option.
    University games are on Wednesday afternoons because traditionally there are no classes held then so that students can be involved in all kinds of other activities, sports being just one.

    PH
     
  12. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    Probably an interpretation by someone fond of hair splitting.
    If you are in a situation where you have one AR and only club line candidates who are affiliated with one team or the other, you fail to meet any of the situations in the AH. Hair splitting.
     
  13. iron81

    iron81 Member+

    Jan 6, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I interpret that RAH passage to mean that a club line is mandatory if you have one AR.
     
  14. Yale

    Yale Member

    Nov 26, 2012
    Also, they don't want you having one AR and one affiliated club line. But they also say it's a “preference”, not that it's mandatory, for what that's worth.
     
  15. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I actually don't think that's really what they meant -- I don't think they mean that if you can't find an unaffiliated club line that you strip the AR of his responsibilities. (It's a nonsensical idea: the team is short, so let's cripple the team more!!!) I think that 4 and 5 make clear that they are trying to make clear it is better to have someone neutral, but not trained, than some affiliated with a team. To which I say, "Duh!!!!" I think it is simply a case of getting carried away with trying to list all of the concieveable posibilities, and losing site of a piece in the middle. (I'm also curious how many games in the real world ever get an unaffiliated club line? Not to mention that it is a bit humorous to say unaffiliated club line, since the reason for the word is -- wait for it -- that it is someone from the club . . . .)
     
  16. Yale

    Yale Member

    Nov 26, 2012
    I'm not so sure that's not what they meant. I can see the argument that you shouldn't have one affiliated club line if you don't have two, since with two the possibility of bias evens out.

    That said, I think there's also a reason why this whole thing is stated as a preference and not a directive, since the real world doesn't operate like that. As you said, how many games are there where you can find an unaffiliated club line? Heck, a lot of the time you can't even get unaffiliated referees.

    It seems to me that they're basically saying that if you do what most of us do when we have just one AR and get an affiliated club line, you're technically going against policy, but not in any way that has any ramifications. It's more of a “this is what we like to see, in case you were wondering” kind of thing. So in that sense, they wouldn't want to officially condone a situation that would lead to an appearance of bias, even though as a practical matter it's basically a non-issue and everyone does it all the time without any problems.
     
  17. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
     
  18. Chas (Psyatika)

    Oct 6, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    For what it's worth, so far I'm liking the conservative approach. I had nothing even remotely close to dissent for the entire match between the 2nd and 3rd placed teams in one of the B divisions. Though, to be fair, I had maybe 4 offside calls for the entire match, so either the teams adjusted quickly, or neither team was interested in testing their offside trap against the other!

    I didn't announce my approach to anyone.
     
  19. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's all you can ask! :)
     
  20. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Interesting point that is easy to overlook here in the US, where most adult players don't attend pro matches, or don't have a local team to go watch. I used to leave at halftime to go see DCU if I had a Saturday afternoon game.
     
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  21. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Neat! Who refereed the 2nd half?:D

    PH
     
  22. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Zing! This was back when I was a player, and yes, everyone was probably glad to see me go! (I didn't take up the game until age 40, so skills are not that great. On the other hand, I'm slow.)
     
  23. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    We've got a guy around here who didn't start playing until he was 40. He's now something like 75 and still playing, in the O-50's, so he's playing with guys that are young enough to be his sons. About 10 years ago, he comes to me after the game with a big aluminum pan. "Ref, would you like some baklava? My mother made it for us." He's playing in the O-50's and his mother is still making treats for his little soccer friends. Alaska Airlines ran an article about him in their in flight magazine about a year ago.
     
  24. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Certainly better than oranges!
     
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  25. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Yeah, there was a guy who played in the league (and this is O-30, we don't have any older brackets around here) and weekly pickups until he passed away at nearly 80 years of age. Remarkable. He had so many friends - one of the things I love about soccer.
     
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