Club lines

Discussion in 'Referee' started by IARef96, Apr 6, 2014.

  1. IARef96

    IARef96 Member

    Oct 19, 2010
    Clive, IA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I decided to take a couple of U-14 girls rec games today for a change of pace/opportunity to give back to lower divisions. Schedule shows no ARs for my first game - something new for me at this age level.

    Any advice on positioning other than "try to be in three places at once"?
     
  2. GrooveDog

    GrooveDog Member

    Apr 25, 2013
    Canada
    I recommend developing cloning technology that can create your own ARs. A little pricey but it dwarfs the cost of the headsets you'll need to buy for them.

    Realistically don't do anything differently except scrap your diagonal. I find AR-less games to be an interesting exercise in positioning because you don't have to worry about making eye contact with an AR and instead just focus on finding the best possible angle for any given challenge. Take a really quick snapshot every few seconds of any players in an OSP and if they get the ball put air in the whistle. Not ideal but it is impossible to be right with the offside line every time and in fact if you try to do this you are probably setting yourself up to miss more important calls (fouls).

    At the end of the day if anyone complains that you missed an offside you can go to the no ARs defense. I recommend not getting club ARs to try to call offside or fouls as chances are you will be close enough in a game of this level to catch everything, and they probably don't know what offside is (and if they did you can't assume they're completely impartial).

    Have fun!
     
  3. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    U-14 G game, you can run easily enough and see well enough to get into the 2LD position for every attack!

    PH
     
  4. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am not sure if you are saying that club ARs can call offside or not but they are not allowed to call anything like that. The only thing a club AR is allowed to do is signal the ball out. You have to decide who gets it next.

    Call the game the best you can and don't let people get under your skin. You are doing a service by taking a game by yourself.
     
  5. Yale

    Yale Member

    Nov 26, 2012
    It's not that hard, really. Some of the best called games I've had were with club lines. For one thing, you'll usually get a little more slack on things like offside calls and throw-ins, especially if you make a big show of going over to the parents beforehand, explaining it's just you out there today, and asking for someone to please help you out.

    In terms of positioning, as @GrooveDog said, forget about your diagonal. It'll be a hard habit to break, and you'll probably still be on some sort of diagonal, but you should remind yourself constantly to move closer to play, especially in the two outer quadrants.

    As for offside calls… good luck! Just do the best you can. Predicting the flow of play is key. If the ball seems to be mostly in one half of the field, cheat in that direction. Conversely, be ready for the occasional clear, but pay attention to where it's going. If a defender clears the ball all the way to a lone member of the other team, no need to run all the way back right away—odds are, if you just move ten or twenty yards up the field, you'll be perfectly positioned for when the ball comes back.

    If play is pretty even, well, then you're in trouble. :D Best thing to do in this case is to stay near play when it's near the half line, then cheat towards the goal line as it approaches either end of the field. Realistically, that means you can forget about calling offside unless it's near the goal line, but that's where it really matters anyway. Regardless, expect to do a lot of running.

    Have fun!
     
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  6. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But this is REC level. The girls can kick the ball 50 yards, but they have no idea which direction the ball will travel. Which makes it damn difficult to predict the flow of play.

    The dirty, little referee secret - sometimes we just guess. :)


    Enough jokes. Stay as wide as possible to triangulate for offside. Watch for retaliation because you're focused on staying wide and therefore miss a few little niggling things.

    That, too. :)
     
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  7. PhilaDoop

    PhilaDoop Member

    Jan 1, 2013
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gonna preface this all with a big YMMV. I'm sure others will have different experiences but this is what's worked for me.

    Honestly, I quit using club linesmen last season; they're more trouble than they're worth in my experience. Despite what you tell them beforehand, half of them try to call direction, a handful try to call offside, and once or twice they openly argue with you from the sideline! (I thought one guy was going to break my flag in half)

    I find typically that I can keep close enough to play that I can see when a ball goes out, and if I can't be sure, chances are no one else noticed either. I do have to run a little more than I might have to otherwise, but it's worth it, and it's not like I couldn't use the exercise anyway.

    Also, whenever I have a game without ARs, I always use the so-called alternate corner kick positioning, behind the goal line off to the side of the goal. From there I find I have a much better view of any potential shenanigans in front of goal, along with the goal line itself in case of a scramble that puts the ball just over the line. From the normal position, there's too much potential to be screened out from things you'd typically count on your AR to see. Potential downside is a quick clearance and counterattack that you'll have to sprint to catch up with, but again, I think the positives outweigh the negatives for me.
     
  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    In the U.S., that is the rule. May not be the same mandate for GrooveDog in Canada. In the UK, I believe it is a local issue -- some parts use club ARs for OS and some don't.
     
  9. Billy South Philly

    Jan 28, 2013
    Newtown Square, PA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have stopped using club linesmen a long time ago. They are not worth the grief and I just run a little bit more to cover than I normally do with AR's on my line. Too many times they have raised offside or flagged for a foul. I get stranded by myself on a game about once or twice a year so this is really never an issue for me.
     
  10. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    IF you use club AR's, and I don't, I'd suggest two things: 1. have a cheap set of flags for them to use. We're talking wood shafts with flag stapled to the shaft. The chances are reasonably high that they will get dragged through the dirt and quite possibly be broken. 2. Place them at the corner flag. They can see the length of the touchline and goal line, they don't have to move along the line that way and they are less likely to have other parents talking with them and, therefore, distracting them, during play. Plus, you always know where they are, rather than them blending in with the other parents.

    Years ago, Tiffany Milbrett was asked about what her earliest memory of soccer was. She said that when she was about five, she remembered being a club linesman for her mother's game. :)
     
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  11. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A few years ago, I had a center on an adult mens' game. My daughter, about 15 then, was with me. One of the AR's didn't show and she was a certified referee. She did full duty and no one really complained about that. After the game she told me, "Wow! Those guys sure do whine a lot." Welcome to my world.
     
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  12. ref53

    ref53 New Member

    Nov 10, 2008
    I always ask for club lines if I am alone, and can pretty quickly figure out if they are going to be at all useful. Since I got my start doing club lines I am always prepared to give parents the benefit of the doubt. I am sometimes pleasantly surprised.
     
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  13. camconcay

    camconcay Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Feb 17, 2011
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I always let the coaches decide if they want them, rarely have to use them but if I am solo or one AR short I ask the coaches if they want to start now or get a club line. If a parent steps up I ask them to stay near the corner flag so they don't have to run and can see the ball out of play on the goal and touch line easier (and they are not in position to call offside etc) I tell them to only raise the flag straight up if the ball goes completely over the line.
     
  14. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    A fellow referee (now retired) accompanied his teenage daughter's team to a tournament in Scandinavia. He made some contacts and was assigned to referee boys' games at the tournament. Almost all of the assignments were solo. To his surprise, he's doing a U-16 boys' game and, before kickoff, one of the Brit coaches raises his hand and says, "Second last, right, ref?" Apparently, there the coaches are assigned to call offside! As he put it, "No wonder they always complain about the lack of scoring in European soccer!"
     
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  15. colman1860

    colman1860 Member

    Nov 13, 2012
    London, England
    I recently moved to England, and have continued refereeing here. I got my start (first 8 years) of refereeing in Ontario, where even U10 games have qualified ARs. Here, ARs are really only used at a very high level. Most of my matches over here are competitive mens' games (around the level of Ontario Soccer League games, for any Ontarians on here), and I don't get assigned ARs. I haven't refereed without ARs in years, so it's been a huge adjustment.

    We're expected to use club "linos", and not using them isn't an option, so I couldn't decide to do the game solo like I used to in house league. So at my first game, I instructed the two "linos" (the coach of one team, and a substitute from the other - ridiculous, I know) to call in/out only, and leave the rest to me. They couldn't believe it, and were insulted. Nobody had ever asked them not to call offside before. Rather than start my English career with a control freak reputation, I relented and allowed them to call offside, while making clear that I might overrule them if necessary. They (and all "linos" I've had since them) were awful. Obviously bad calls, obviously biased calls, dissent towards me when they're supposed to be assisting me, smoking a cigarette while "running" the line, cup of tea in hand, etc.

    It's a complete nightmare, and I can't believe that a country which prides itself in its football expertise allows this system to continue at any level beyond U10.
     
  16. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    In this situation, when checking in the teams, explain that I am a one person crew, I will do my best to be accurate with the offside calls. I will warn them if their defense likes to trap or they have a lingering pesky forward that walks that line all game long that they may be disappointed in my calls (or non-calls).

    Then again, games with only a CR are usually low-level matches where the teams don't have the sophistication to do either. They will usually have a deep sweeper or a completely lazy forward. Either one always makes the day easy.

    Size it up during the first few minutes. You figure out the leeway or which direction you need to alert to when the play happens. Just be aware of the lazy far side back that leaves everyone on before calling the offside.
     
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  17. Wahoos1

    Wahoos1 Member

    Oct 31, 2004
    Make sure and tell coaches and captains that without a real AR you will need to see green between 2LD and attacker so be aware....
     
  18. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    It is because, as I am sure you have found out, there are barely enough refs to cover all the games with one CR let alone providing qualified ARs. In many places they are lucky if they get a "real" referee at all, especially for kids' games. This is true in many countries around the world. Not a lot of people are interested in being a referee.

    PH
     
  19. Errol V

    Errol V Member+

    Mar 30, 2011
    Amen to that. I have enough trouble with certified ARs not following my pregame instructions.
     
  20. Billy South Philly

    Jan 28, 2013
    Newtown Square, PA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I changed associations due to work and holy cow are the AR standards much lower. I have had AR's frantically wave the flag while I am 5 yards from play in the center of the field. What. The. Hell. Are. You. Doing?? I so want to blast them at halftime or after the game, but I am some new city slicker to them so I just kindly remind of my instructions.
     
  21. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I don't use them anymore. Don't need them. I ask both coaches to give me a signal if the ball went out, but usually the body language of the players lets you know what's going on along the line.

    And I do not tolerate arguing direction. I tell the coach who argued to find something way more important to argue about.
     
  22. Chas (Psyatika)

    Oct 6, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    In the Men's league I do, the teams never want to use club lines. After reading the advice of others on here, I stopped using club lines on youth games last year. I feel like the games go much better without them.

    My advice might be slightly controversial, but in my experience, it keeps the teams from wanting to follow you to the parking lot!

    If you're not 100% sure about an offside decision, just blow the whistle. I know this is the exact opposite of the official USSF/FIFA stance! If you have to take a guess, always guess offside. I apply the same thought to the ball quickly going into touch and coming back onto the field. If I have to guess, I'm blowing the whistle.

    You might find yourself calling back legitimate plays because it was too close to be sure, but I find that the players are more willing to accept a bad offside call, than a bad offside no-call that results in a goal.

    I'm actually wondering about telling the teams about this policy in advance. I never tell the teams how I plan on calling a game, but I wonder if telling them about my solo-ref offside strategy will help with game management, since they might understand why I'm calling their striker off when he's barely on, and further understand that if I'm letting them play, it's because that striker made it 100% obvious to me that he was even.
     
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  23. colman1860

    colman1860 Member

    Nov 13, 2012
    London, England
    You're right. However, I think this is poor planning by the FA over here. Almost every league plays in the same time slot: Saturday/Sunday morning. The occasional league plays in the afternoon on Sat/Sun. The college/university games are on Wednesday afternoons. Meanwhile, nobody plays in the evenings on a weekday. If leagues were more willing to space out their scheduling, there would be more referees available to take their games.
     
  24. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009

    I would really, really not tell teams that. Defense is going to use it to test you, and come out with "c'mon, you said..." (Not to mention you're going to run into the team with a ref who knows you're not following the official standards.) Leave it at "I've got no ARs, you know I'll do the best I can on OS." And when they complain, "Look, I've got to do the best I can here in the middle -- if you want more precise OS calls, tell the league you want ARs."
     
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  25. Billy South Philly

    Jan 28, 2013
    Newtown Square, PA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I also have a nice little threat that I tell coaches that if I hear a peep from anyone about OS calls, they are cautioned (if player) or they are gone (parents or coaches). I usually say this with a smile and a confident tone:

    "Look coach, I am going to do the best I can with this, but let's appreciate the fact that the players are going to get a game. I love my AR's and I want my AR's, but they are not here. So that is card we are dealt with so I expect you and everyone else to respect my judgments to the best that I can possibly do. I will not tolerate any dissent regarding offside infractions. This is cautionable offense. This applies to everyone. Instead, let's appreciate the fact we are getting the game off."

    Kinda asshole-ish, but it seems to work for me.
     
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