News: Clark / Burch

Discussion in 'Seattle Sounders FC' started by BCLK, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. BCLK

    BCLK Member

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    question for you guys. As we all recall, the Houston Dynamo's Colin Clark said some homophobic things to one of your ball boys during a match at century link. The sounders fans ripped him and the Dynamo, even creating tifo's etc (sorry to lazy to tag the thread(s) here). What are your feelings now that one of your own did it? (and I know you already stand for no hate etc, I just want to know how outraged are you with one of your own)

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...s-burch-issues-public-apology-homophobic-slur


  2. BCLK

    BCLK Member

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    forgot to say: mods, please move to the appropriate place or delete if I just missed where this is being talked about
  3. Vander Decken IX

    Vander Decken IX Member

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    Did you just revived your inactive for almost a year account just to create a forum about Burch?
  4. BCLK

    BCLK Member

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    I guess so. I have been on for the year that it says I have been inactive, just not logged in. That is not relevant to the post. You guys were so passionate before, why not now?


  5. guelch27

    guelch27 Member

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    He deserves a ban. Not as long as Clark's since his was to a fellow player and not a ball boy, but it's only fair he be banned as well. I've heard a lot of derogatory terms on the pitch, even in high school and rec leagues.
  6. BCLK

    BCLK Member

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    Guelch, because he said it to an adult? How many games do you think is fair? Clark got three I think, is two fair? Personally I think it should be the same three as Clark. The term is just as derogatory no matter who you say it to. And yes, I know there is much more that is being said on the pitch, it is just when NBC sports cameras and mica pick it up
  7. Ganapper

    Ganapper Member

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    The term is as derogatory, yes. But since it was to an adult I expect the suspension would be less.

    If you don't think there is a difference between verbal assault on a child and verbal assault on an adult then you are just ridiculous.

    We have no idea what was said on the pitch leading up to that point, Clark yelled at a kid, a KID for not throwing the ball at him exactly when and where he wanted it.
  8. Hungryjack

    Hungryjack Member+

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    I will be genuinely surprised if it is anything but three games. The precedent has been set and the league wants to send a message that a line was crossed (to borrow from their own anti-discrimination advertisement). I sincerely believe that neither of them meant much by saying it and I believe both of them are genuine in their apologies and I don't think either of them are homophobes. I think some introspection can come to both players in the wake of this and that is a good thing just like it is a good thing that we are talking about it.

    To me, it seems that the point of the punishment is to demonstrate that to the league, this is not a casual expression of frustration, but a genuinely hurtful insult, even if the object of the insult isn't particularly offended. Handing down a three-game suspension every time someone is caught using the word is going to become an effective way of raising its profile to the point where it is simply no longer said casually and there will be no more "oops" moments.

    I believe the correct answer is to hand down the suspension and then forgive the players if and when they are sincere in their regret and they can grow from the experience.
  9. BCLK

    BCLK Member

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    Well put hungry jack and much along what I was thinking.
  10. Vander Decken IX

    Vander Decken IX Member

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    Passionate regarding reckless challenges and injuries, but I'm not sure about the words between players. For reference, swearing to the refs would get you a red card, so I guess that's one game suspension. I've seen Ljungberg in this situation before.

    Jorge Gonzalez almost gave Amarikwa a red card because he thought Amarikwa said something was directed to him. Gonzalez later nullified the red card when Amarikwa explained that it was not to him.

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2012-08-18-tor-v-skc/highlights?videoID=197035


    Swearing between players is pretty common in the field. While in some games they get too heated it sometimes lead to a headbutt, but then if you're caught you get a red. I don't see this any different from Burch incident.

    Materazzi said some nasty things about Zidane's sister, which in my opinion is much worse than being called f*****. Zidane later headbutted Materazzi and got a red card, then Materazzi got a 2 match ban, but I think this is because what Materazzi did had an effect to the game.
    Sounder repped this.
  11. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

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    I disagree with you. It is a particularly nasty insult with a particularly nasty history. Unfortunately, it has been all too casually used in society. I remember sitting on Delta Airlines a few years back and decided to watch "The Hangover" because I had heard it was funny. I was infuriated when that word was so casually used within the first 15 minutes or so. If it had been the n-word, the airline would have edited it out (or not shown the movie at all). But because the target was an "acceptable" group to discriminate against, it wasn't edited out at all (Delta Airlines said they saw nothing wrong with it when I filed a complaint). I applaud MLS for cracking down on it and expect Burch to get punished (I will be disappointed if he isn't - even though it puts us in a spot of difficulty at left back).

    I predict a two-game ban for Burch. First, because it was directed at a player and not a child. Second, because he issued an apology before any punishment was given. For those two reasons I anticipate his ban will be less than Clark's.
  12. Sounder

    Sounder Member

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    I was thinking the exact same thing! Maybe if you're gay it would be different, but as a straight male some dude calling me a ************ I'm gonna tell him to shut the hell up. Same dude saying he's gonna ******** my sister, gettin' punched. Not sure why one "special" group gets all the words that hurt their feelings legally protected. As a white, christian, straight male people have carte blanche on insults for people like me. Double standard IMO
  13. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator Staff Member

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    Is there a derogatory word for white, Christian, straight males that is commonly used? Admittedly, we are lilly white up here in the PNW, but I've never heard "honky" used outside of blaxploitation movies...

    That being said, I think there is a lot of stupid in your comment. The whole point on trying to quash the use of the word is because of the history of discrimination and mistreatment that has been directed at homosexuals. The hope is that by having people think twice about using the word, they'll think twice about discriminating or mistreating homosexuals. I'd also say that is the reason why there isn't really any backlash for insults on white, Christian, straight males, there is no history of discrimination or mistreatment for being a white, Christian, straight male... Maybe once they become a minority it will become a problem, but until then...
    Sounders78 repped this.
  14. Hungryjack

    Hungryjack Member+

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  15. Levy2k6

    Levy2k6 BigSoccer Supporter

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    you're a minority if you ever decide to move to Texas (especially Houston) btw but you're safe up in the PNW.
  16. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

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    First, it is not just one "special" group that is being included. Racial epithets are also covered. As are ones based on sex.

    Second, ask yourself why you put "special" in scare-quotes. Was it to demean the group under discussion? For example, evangelical Christian leaders typically use that technique when talking about Same-sex "marriage" in order to imply those marriages are not real marriages.

    Third, I am racking my brain to come up with commonly used words designed to insult and denigrate whites (I can think of a couple that I virtually never hear), males (none) or Christians (none).

    Fourth, why is it when gays are physically assaulted (which happens regularly), Christians are the last to speak out against the violence but the first to use language that encourages said violence, such as referring to gays as abominations (based on a mistranslation of Leviticus), unnatural (based on a mistranslation in Romans), or by deliberately and incorrectly associating them with pedophiles? Of the five death threats I have received for being gay, at least four have been from Christians, based on the biblical references, Bibles in hand, etc.

    Fifth, as a former evangelical Christian, I know full well that while evangelicals talk about being persecuted a lot, the reality is they are not, at least in this country. In fact, they are quite powerful. Ask yourself how many Christian presidents there have been, now ask yourself how many gay presidents there have been. Christian senators vs gay senators (the first openly gay senator was just elected). The problem is that Evangelicals in particular confuse criticism with persecution. While they typically think it is their right not to have to rent an apartment to a gay person, if the Christian is refused one because of their religion, they call it persecution. When was the last time you had your basic civil equality/rights voted on by the populace at large? For me it was this week. The double standards are everywhere.

    Finally, are you saying it is ok to tell people they are nothing but the bundle of sticks that were used to burn them alive at the stake in the Middle Ages?
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  17. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

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    Spot on.
  18. Mateofelipe

    Mateofelipe Member

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    True, but it would still be inappropriate and punishable by the rec league I play in for me, as a gay man, to call another player a "f...g breeder."
  19. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator Staff Member

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    If it weren't for the use of f**king, I'm not sure many would know that breeder is a slur. Heck. Some might take t as a compliment.
  20. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator Staff Member

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  21. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

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    edwardgr repped this.
  22. Ajas

    Ajas Member

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    Good. He deserved his 3 games, and I would totally understand if the Sounders released him immediately. Seattle doesn't need worthless trash like Marc Burch. Good riddance.

    Now... what we are going to do at left back in the playoffs is a mystery.
    edwardgr repped this.
  23. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator Staff Member

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    My guess:

    [​IMG]

    Might as sell finish off Evans's defensive Bingo...
  24. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator Staff Member

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    WASP is about all I can come with, and I never hear it. Then again it apparently has a fairly narrow focus target wise.
  25. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator Staff Member

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    And a completely idiotic one at that. Given that the majority of people are still products of breeders o_O.

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