Circle of Honor 2014 Nominees released

A lot of it has to do with the way he went about things. That made him more than just a guy who played a lot. That's why I've noted the way his teammates and coaches viewed him. Any guy who your teammates use to define what it means to be "Crew" is more than just a single note about longevity. That's what tips the balance for me. And I heard it from more than one player. Respect from a fanbase is one thing. Dunc has that. But add to that respect from opponents and teammates, and you have something more.

 

Well, our FO still needs a lot of work, obviously.

I'll do the work for them, as most already have pointed out.

Here's 15 LEGIT names:
GK: Friedel, Hesmer
D: Hejduk, Clark, Dooley, Lapper, Fraser
M: Schelotto, Maisonneuve, Warzycha, Carroll
F: John, Cunningham, Moreno
Coach: Fitzgerald

Buddle & Marshall are still playing, Sigi is still coaching, and Gaven is young enough to change his mind, so they can wait a bit. The others are all legit.

Andrulis & Garey don't belong anywhere near that list. Yeagley, West, and Oughton & Dante were solid contributors, and I can live with the nomination, but they'll never make the cut. Martino, if he hadn't gotten injured....

For me, an easy five votes: Schelotto, Hejduk, Mais, Warzycha, Lapper. I could also live with a vote for Clark. Though, in terms of quality, he's closer to Yeagley than Dooley, Fraser, Hejduk, Lapper, and Marshall.

 

And you are still a bit off on these as Cunningham may still be playing and Carroll most certainly *is*, unless it was his ghost I saw at the Crew home opener.

And as I noted some of the guys just weren't here that long--and most of their fame came elsewhere. But I guess LeTraitor should be in the Buckeye Hall of Fame because he *might* have come to tOSU had the one and done rule been in effect by the way some folks seem to think. Then again, Colorado did retire Ray Borque's for playing only one season with them (which I think is nuts--but I'll chalk it up to thin air and other atmospheric disturbances that are now legal in that state).

BTW, I think Fitz is not on the list because he has already been honored with a memorial plaque at the stadium. And I'll also note that Lapper is one of the guys who noted that Clark was the definition of Crew. Heard him say it more than once.

That said, your 5 is very close to mine--I had Clark instead of Bob, partly because I think it's too soon for Bob (though I would have dropped Lapper for Bob).

 

The way Dooley exited the club? I'll pass.

As others have said, it should be about their time here, not what they did after they left. Theroetically, someone could start in Columbus, miss the playoffs two years out of four, and go on to win the UEFA Champions League and World Cup, but those other accomplishments shouldn't matter at all.

Trophies won in Columbus should certainly factor in, but they shouldn't be a requirement. You could be a great player but never win a trophy.

 

I don't think that there should be a set "timeline" for how often there is an inductee. It should only take place when someone has met a certain criteria.

I'm also not a fan of the "fan vote" but maybe this is just a trick as well to increase STH scores.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I think Stern John should be in. I watched him score goal after goal. The guy was a great, great striker.

 

For me the list should be much shorter and certainly not a fan vote where recency holds primacy. To get your jersey retired or be placed in a ring of honor you have to be really special to the club. You have to have people say " that guy was The Columbus Crew." I think here are currently out three on that list (would be four but Cunningham is reportedly still playing): GBS, Frankie, and Stern John. I am not going to begrudge a guy who owned the league in its infancy who left to try his hand in England). Mai's is close. Gaven could get there with Marshall but not yet.

 

1. Schelotto - He is Saint in Columbus.
2. Hedjuk - If you cut him, he bleeds black and when he drinks too much he pukes yellow.
3. Maisonneuve - Great player all the way around. And I still mess up his name every time I type or say it.
4. Warzycha - Did so much for the Crew but probably too soon after the slide as a coach.
5. Clark - He was Mr. Crew for so long. I am not entirely sold but solid solid Crew player.

And
Martino - so his wife can come to Columbus for the ceremony and get hugs from the Nordecke! HA!

Oh and Adrulis being the default choice on the website is a Sin according to Soccer God.

 

If you are going to put Andrulis up for consideration why not Timo Leokowski? Or Brian Bliss for his magnificent run at the end of last season as an interim coach?

 

Well hell yes im kidding. No KC, lets also nominate the popcorn vendors from the Eastern Conference Final in 2008. They had to work extra hard that night.

 

Per the usual, your memory isn't that good.

The '96 team was in the doldrums until Friedel signed and the coaching change was made. Winning 9 of 10 (with, I believe, 8 of those being the non-shootout 3 pt variety) to make the POs.

The '97 team was even better. We beat Tampa in round 1, but, like all our 90's teams, couldn't get over the DC hurdle in the POs.

Friedel led the league in GAA both year, but didn't play enough games to qualify the first year.

 

Schelotto and it stops there. Set the bar high.

 

Clark did make a couple of all-star teams (or was it just one?). And while I lean towards the serviceable/durable type of analysis on Clark's career, he did keep getting better as it went on. We used to yell "Keep it on the ground, Clarkie" at him every time he passed the ball for the first couple of years, because his pass went in the air, we lost possession. He was definitely a defense first defender, which isn't a bad thing. But that sort of thing went away as his career progressed.

But Dooley, Lapper, and Iribarren were better players.

 

For the record, that is a relatively new rule. There are players in the MLB HOF who didn't play the requisite 10 seasons. Cleveland Ace Addie Joss comes to mind. He collapsed on the field and died shortly thereafter of teburcular meningitis. He only played 9 years. His ERA is the second lowest in MLB history. His WHIP is the lowest in MLB history. 45 shutouts out of 160 wins. 2 ERA titles. 2 no hitters (1 perfect game) and 7 1 hitters. Yet, he didn't play 10 years. So, should he be in?

And the rule leads to some absurd results. Take Sandy Koufax. He played 12 seasons, shortened by injury, of course. The first 3 years, he won a total of 9 games with a winning % under .500. In year 4, he went 11-11 with an ERA of 4.48. Year 5 is 8-6 and ERA over 4.00. Year 6 he goes 8-13. After six years, he's under .500, has never won more than 11 games in a year, and has only 1 year with an ERA under 3.50. Then he goes on an unbelievable run, perhaps the best baseball has ever seen, for the next six years.

Now, without three of those nothing years, he's not a HOF player? Everyone knows it's that six years of brilliance that gets him in, and deservedly so. But then you still need those garbage years to get in? Ridiculous. And he's far from the only MLF HOF to get in via the "garbage years."

You don't need artificial barriers. If the people voting are of reasonable intelligence, they can judge the player fpr themselves.

 

Koufax was an odd case--as a Bonus Baby, the Dodgers had to keep him on the roster according to the rules of the day (and I think for the 5 years of his first contract), when he probably should have been in the minors (I followed his career pretty close when I was a kid--he pitched in the first big league game I attended). Joss was under the 10 year rule--and an exception was made. One.

Even so, Koufax's *six* great years are far more than many of the players on the list even *had* with the Crew. John had two. Friedel didn't even have that. And we are talking about *Crew* fame here. Not overall fame. It's like putting Mark Fidrych in the Hall for one brilliant year.

 

Dooley? US Hall, of course. Crew Hall? He played most of his career in the Bundesliga. Lapper. A case could be made. But I will point out, as I have before, that Lapper was one of the guys who used to use Clark as the example of Crew. In my hearing. More than once. And that is an important point that you'all are missing. It's not just skill and quality, though those are important. Iribarren? Maybe when he was back home. MLS? Not so much. Heck he only had one season with the Crew and one with Dallas (and one in the USL). Gino had a better career.

 

That is not a new rule. From the beginning, ten seasons of service have been required. Joss is the only player with fewer than ten seasons who was voted in based strictly on his playing career*, and he was ineligible until late 1977 when the Hall of Fame granted Joss special dispensation on account of his 9-year career and premature death as an active player. Upon being declared eligible, he was voted in on the first opportunity in 1978. Deservedly so.

* Anyone else with fewer than ten years was voted in based on credentials other than playing, such as being a manager (Harry Wright, Tommy Lasorda, etc), owner (Charlie Comiskey, etc), executive (Al Spalding, etc), and then there's Candy Cummings, who only played six years but was inducted as a pioneer for being credited with inventing the curveball. (Whether or not he actually did is another matter.) And then there are those players with fewer than ten years of service who were voted in because they were excluded from playing in the majors for all or part of their careers on account of their skin color. (Satchel Paige, Monte Irvin, Josh Gibson, etc.) When it comes to being a traditional HOF MLB player, Joss is the only one with fewer than ten seasons of MLB service.

As this relates to the Crew, I don't know that the criteria are set in stone for all eternity. Exceptions can be made when warranted, and the criteria can evolve as the Circle evolves. For this stage of the Circle's life, where there is currently only one inductee and the search is on for a second, I don't at all object to a years of service filter. (And note that Stern and Dooley would have qualified except for the fact that they were not part of a championship team. Friedel too, but also because he did not play even 50 games.)

And since the Crew wanted to involve the fans in the process, it made sense to winnow the list down using some objective criteria. They could have just declared a new honoree or just subjectively came up with a list of finalists, but they wanted to involve the fans in the process. Doing so required narrowing the candidate pool to a manageable number. They set some criteria and went from there.

Unless you think the 2014 criteria will unfairly deny Stern John or Brad Friedel their place as the second inductee into the Circle of Honor, it didn't seem like something I'd personally get worked up about. I would definitely induct Stern John ahead of some of the people on that list if I had to choose between him and them, but that doesn't seem relevant for the 2014 induction, and probably wouldn't be relevant for the immediate future.

If you or anyone else thinks differently than the Crew did, I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't think the Crew did anything wrong either. But I think even the arguments are fun and constructive, as it has led to people reflecting on the club's history and some of the memorable players we've had the pleasure of watching over the years.

PS - For those earlier in the thread who asked about Fitz, the same championship requirement applies to coaches. For the coaches, the Crew went with five years and a title, but three years if that title was MLS Cup, since that is the league's official championship.

 

Fitz does at least have his own memorial in the stadium. And I'm good with that. He is honored and recognized.

 

I would agree until I consider that he earned us our first ever league championship. That can never be achieved again. Ever.

 

Well, its down to 5 now.

 

Clark, Hejduk, Maisonneuve, Schelotto and Warzycha

 

I can argue the merits of inducting every year for the first 3-4 years to deal with a little backlog from the first 17 years of the club before this tradition started. Then change it to every 5 years at which point "no one" is a standing ballot option. Just because it's ''time" for. CoH induction will not always mean there are worthy candidates.