Circle of Honor 2014 Nominees released

And because of that you got Kunis, not Gomez.

 

I don't really care too much about halls of fame or rings of honor or whatever, but for some reason I'm extremely annoyed by this list and the criteria. The Crew can't even go about honoring its players without causing issues. What a bunch of dopes.

 

Outstanding reply.

 

I think everyone who has a certain term of service in the bigs is eligible for the MLB HoF. That's pretty standard. But most of them will never get even 5% of the vote--in a case where you can vote for multiple players. That's Garey. Eligible does not imply deserving.

 

I say this with love, but if BigSoccer had a 2014 baseball HOF ballot: "WTF? Mike Timlin? Todd Jones? Paul Lo Duca? There are way better players than them who aren't even eligible for the Hall of Fame! What a joke!"

Meanwhile, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and Frank Thomas get inducted.

There is no harm in every eligible person being on the ballot. They just won't get the votes that the most deserving candidates will. Jacque Jones and Richie Sexson being on the ballot didn't diminish Greg Maddux's election in any way.

 

I completely agree. It's the criteria they've decided to use that makes the whole thing ridiculous, not the fact that the lesser players are included.

These rules they've laid out makes it even more absurd when the players who have no chance in hell are on the list and better more deserving players aren't eligible.

Make it one rule, having been retired for a year. Problem solved.

 

Yeah but we (or whoever votes, I'm not crazy about it being fans) can weed the players who matter out by ourselves. The criteria is redundant and restrictive.

Garey and John are two great examples of why it's silly. Garey gets on the list because he played with the Crew for 5 years, but he started what, maybe 20 games in that time? He didn't start a single game the year they are crediting him with fulfilling the criteria of winning the MLS Cup.

John is the only Crew player in history to win the scoring title and was one of the most dominant in a single season that MLS has ever seen. He also started three times the amount of games that Garey did.

The rules aren't needed. We know neither guy would make it in, but we're denied the right of recognizing some important players in our history by not at least including them in the discussion.

 

See my example above. Again, not saying John deserves to be voted in, but Garey rode the bench for five years here and certainly didn't do anything "transcendent" in his career in that time. John is the only Crew player to ever win the scoring title and did it as well as anyone in the league's history.

 

Lol, come on, who came up with this shit:

• An individual must have served as a Head Coach for at least five years, or less with a total of at least 10 years on the coaching staff

• Exception: Requirement to previous entry may be reduced to three years as Head Coach, if individual led the Crew to the MLS Cup title in that time

Why doesn't it just say "Exception: Unless his name is Sigi Schmid"

Just make it a year retired and be done with it.

 

Martino? Damn. Why not just throw Szetela in that list too.

 

Yes. Frankie played well for both the Crew and USMNT during a long career. I'm assuming Bob is on the list for his playing career, not his coaching career. His main claim to fame as a player is a lot of assists. Bob was a great free kick taker and he happened to have McBride (and others) on the receiving end. He wasn't that good in the run of play, either offensively or defensively. By late in his career he was visibly arguing with team mates on the field to slow down play. A slow style with lots of route 1 and playing for deadballs favored Bob. Playing fast as Perez wanted favored guys like West, Cunningham, and Buddle.

Scores were higher and defenses less organized in the early years of MLS. So I don't rate Clark as highly as some. I also discount the scoring a bit and that's what Bob's candidacy hinges on. Simon Elliott had a decent number of assists during his time as the main free kick taker. He was also a team MVP. Should he be ahead of Warzycha?

Regarding the criteria, I guess they don't want fans to have to wade through everyone on the roster at some point, but maybe a 30 start minimum would be enough, along with the retirement requirement. Is Sigi not included because he is still coaching? Nee and Bob are still coaching as well, if not in MLS. Fitz is just short of 5 full years as HC, isn't he?

 

If Grady Sizemore's injuries ended his career after the 2008 season, he could have theoretically been on the 2014 HOF ballot except that he wouldn't met the years of service requirement. He was a unquestionable superstar at that point and one of the best players in the game. He would have been a much better player than some of the people who met the HOF's eligibility requirements, but he would have been ineligible. It happens.

Hell, Addie Joss, one of the greatest pitchers of all time, contracted meningitis shortly before his 10th MLB season and died that April and didn't get into the HOF until they granted a special exemption to allow him on the ballot with only nine years of service. He was elected on his first chance, more than 60 years after his death.

Most any HOF-type award has some years of service threshold. At the team level, I would have leaned toward three years myself, but four years is not at all unreasonable. (And the reduction to two years for winning an MLS award and being part of a champion is a solid exception.) [And Stern still would not have qualified even if the years of service were reduced to three.]

The years of service argument or the championship argument probably wouldn't have much impact for the time being. Not with some of the people already currently on the ballot. The criteria objectively trimmed the list to a manageable number for a fan vote. The Crew could have subjectively put five names out there as finalists, or even just picked a new inductee with no input. I think it's cool that the Crew involved the fans in the process. It will be interesting to see who rounds out the top five finalists. (I'm guessing GBS and Frankie will get tons of love.)

And for the record, yes, Stern John was an infinitely better player than Jason Garey. If Jason Garey's name gets put up in Crew Stadium while Stern John can only watch helplessly from the other side of the years of service / championship divide, then you'll have an argument. Just like if, when the time comes, a guy like John McDonald gets a plaque in Cooperstown while some guy with multiple All-Star appearances who only played eight years in the majors looks on. My money's on it's not going to happen.

PS- Since everybody is focusing on Jason Garey, I want to stick up for him a bit. Do I think he's Circle of Honor material? No. But he played a big role in the Massive Season. He scored that spectacular shorthanded goal in Colorado to give the 10-man Crew some desperately-needed breathing room in a 2-0 win. (That was the game Hesmer stood on his head.) He also crushed New England's hopes of catching the Crew with those two back-breaking goals in the 4-0 romp in September. But beyond that, he was one of the players singled out by Sigi as being a great teammate and busting his ass every day in practice, not only to make himself better when he got the opportunity, but to make his teammates better. Sigi was proud that the Crew had a bench full of guys like that and he specifically mentioned a few of them, one being Garey, in our postgame talk. And to top it off, Garey is just an all around good dude. I think Jason Garey represented himself and club well. He played a part in some of the Crew's greatest successes. He has nothing to be ashamed of about his career, even if he's not going to get voted into the Circle of Honor.

 

I always liked Garey as well but he is not Circle material. Personally, I am not sure if there should be a set criteria for eligibility. You either are or are not Circle material.

 

I'm obviously not worried that we're looking at potential for a scenario like what you're describing but it's not really the point.

When you have to bend the rules like they did (both of the exceptions they made were specifically to make sure certain players/coaches could be eligible) it cheapens it. Just make everyone eligible and let it be sorted out by the voting. Nobody is going to be worried about shit players to be put in over great ones.

You make good points and I agree with a lot of them but it doesn't change my opinion. In the end, I find it absurd that the most prolific scorer we have ever had is prevented from at least being recognized by being eligible.

 

Let's also stop comparing this to the MLB Hall of Fame criteria and process which is easily the most ridiculous of the major sports hall of fame selections.

None of the other major sport's HOFs have any rules about eligibility other than the player being retired.

 

I do believe that the baseball HOF was the first and is the biggest in terms of impact. Thus it is a model for the rest. Whether you feel it is ridiculous or not. Or are you a Pete Rose fan?? And basically the only major rule it has is that a player has to have played 10 seasons. That's especially reasonable in a sport like baseball where careers are longer.
But to get back to the point, one or two brilliant seasons do not make a ring of honor person for a specific club, in my opinion. And that includes Stern John as well as Brad Friedel. They had great careers, to be sure. Just not long enough with us.

 

So here's a real question - what about Sigi? Won us an MLS Cup. Only here 3 years. The other 2 seasons were woeful.

While I think he was the best coach we ever had, I would say no. 1 single season of glory in a short lived tenure doesn't make me think of him as Ring of Honor material.

 

At this point the only coach I would consider is Fitz. And I'm not 100% sure about that--except his tragic death would garner some support.