There is a pretty significant difference between a team deciding not to recruit foreign players and a team deciding that it will only hire people of a discrete national origin. If a Boston team decided to only hire players who could trace their roots to Ireland, that would also be unacceptable (and illegal). And, no, teams in the US don't have the right (either morally or legally) to build their identity as they see fit if that identity is based on things like race, ethnicity, national origin or religion. Wow. You just called Chivas fans a bunch of bigots. I'm hoping that's not the case and hopefully other Chivas fans will chime in and tell us that you're wrong. If it is true, I think MLS needs to spend some time educating Chivas fans on what is and isn't acceptable in this league. I would hope that all fans of Chivas, regardless of their ethnicity or national origin, are opposed to bigotry and discrimination based on national origin. The fact that there are no professional sports teams in the US that pander to national or ethnic identities and that discrimination based on those characteristics is illegal should tell you that approach has been consigned to the bad old days.
Yes, discrimination is discrimination, regardless of whether it's practiced by the Yankees or Chivas USA. And MLB (and American sports in general) dealt with this issue decades ago. In any event, even if MLB was still discriminating againt black players, it still wouldn't justify another team discriminating against players of non-Mexican origin. As long as Chivas USA is treated like the ugly stepchild compared to GDL, the club will continue to struggle on the field and in the stands. For whatever reason, Chivas ownership isn't smart enough to figure this out.
Which is puzzling. Why buy a sports team if you don't want it to be successful and popular? There's nothing preventing the ownership from trying to turn Chivas USA into a winner. If anything, doing so would be positive for the entire Chivas brand.
This is very stupid even by your standards ICF; you are saying it would be ok for a club to discriminate in favor of a group because other groups did it back in the 1940's and 50's.
Chivas Guadalajara is proudly Nationalistic Mexican. Celtic was a proudly Roman Catholic club. Rangers was a proudly Protestant club. Atletic Bilbao is a proudly Basco club. zenit saint Petersburg is a proud white only club. Team USA was an Americas only NASL club I am pretty sure all of the above would break USA law (even team USA if they deny green card holders the same rights). Now how morally right or wrong they are, I guess that is up to each person to decide.
So let me understand this. Guadalajaras tradition in Mexico of not hiring non Mexican citizens is ok, but Chivas USA trying to do the same here is morally wrong? I agree that it might be illegal, I am not a law expert, but if so, why would MLS allow it. They knew exactly what Chivas USA was trying to do. I was speaking about Guadalajara fans, which if Chivas USA is trying to pander to and are representigng Guadalajara here in the US then yes, its important Chivas USA looks just like Guad. I'm not a Chivas USA fan because they didn't stick to the traditions they were supposed to. They claimed to be a Mexican club in MLS but as the years went by they had fewer. There was no reason for me to support the team and they were also tarnishing my beloveds Guads name as the years went by.
My position is that everyone who is living in a country legally should be treated the same for hiring purposes, regardless of their national background (with exceptions for things like national security). If Guadalajara discriminated against people living legally in Mexico, then they're in the wrong. On the other hand, if Guadalajara's policy is that they're not going to seek out players in other countries but will instead rely on the player pool in Mexico, I have no problem with that. But, if Chivas USA decides it is going to discriminate against a large percentage of people living in the US, that's morally wrong. It would be no different than a soccer team saying it will only hire players who can trace their roots to Germany. Back when Chivas entered the league, MLS couldn't be too choosy when it came to expansion teams. The league had almost collapsed the year before. I think you need to re-examine your personal values if you refuse to support a team due to their unwillingness to engage in discrimination. Change the ethnicities involved and imagine an Anglo soccer fan refusing to support a team because there are too many Mexicans on the roster. How does that work for you? In any event, Chivas' original strategy of trying to appeal only to the fans of the senior club in Mexico has clearly been a bust. It's rarely a smart move in business to start from a position where you willingly limit your pool of customers.
Well, MLS needs to re-evaluate their moral compas if they think what Chivas USA wants to do is morally wrong now and this how they justify their descision to allow them into the league. "if you give us money we will be ok with whatever you do" i refused to support a club that is trying to make money of of my Guadalajara team and dont uphold the constitution and values In place of said club set in place for more than 100 years. Chivas USA might as well be Houston or Columbus for me they dont have anything that appeals to me, im not from LA. if i lived in LA i might support them cuz i hate the Galaxy. in MLS i support the timbers because they have things that appeal to me personally, which is why eventhough i live in the bay area i dont support the quakes
Boom there it is maybe Chivas is a matter of National security for Mexico BTW We understandably single out Chivas MX because of Chivas USA, but they are not the only team that fields nationalistic, religious or ethnic line ups.
That's is exactly why they let Chivas in. At the time there were three people running all of MLS (Hunt, Kraft and Anschutz). They needed to take the financial burden off somehow, so they sold franchises to Chivas and RSL and eventually sold the Metrostars to Red Bull, all of which at the time were not exactly optimal partners but the only ones willing to invest in MLS at the time. If any of these three came to MLS today with their proposed teams they'd likely all be rejected in favor of other cities/potential owners.
Most MLS fans have actively hated the Chivas USA concept since inception. It's against the law, it's against what MLS stands for and a complete mistake. Lately, we've let the issue slide because Chivas was just one more club, albeit badly run. Now, with the return to policy, we're back to square one. The only real solution is for Vergara to sell the franchise.
I hear the Galaxy supporters chant, "F-- Chivas USA, F--- Chivas USA, you're not Mexico, you're not L.A., find your own damn place to play..." It's true, y'all.
Yeah, and that's always had a negative impact on the sport and its fans. When Rangers and Celtic play each other, the number of people brought into emergency rooms for assaults in Glasgow is 9 times the usual rate.
Am I the only person having trouble wrapping my head around the entire existence of Chivas USA? To me, the team exists as one giant contradiction: Chivas- "We want to grow and expand our brand by founding an MLS franchise." MLS- "What brand would that be?" C- "Fielding a team of players that have not declared for any other nation. We want to bring a bit of Mexico to the league." M- "No prob. By the way, you're roster is going to need about twenty or so players, at a minimum, that are legal residents of the USA." C- "Pfft. We'll bring in as many Mexicans as we can, then, to fill out the roster." <fast forward a few years> C- "Hmm...this strategy isn't working. Let's act more like a typical MLS club." <team meets with some success, then regresses> C- "Hey, guys...I have an idea. Let's go back to our original plan. It'll work for certain this time!" ...what am I missing???
Somewhere in the middle they were led by a young core of American players with non Mexican coaches to moderate success
Don't start your trolling again, Mexican. If I had a dime for every stupid post you've made... This is all a matter of opinion, and I support this club's policy, if in fact it exists. It may drive me, and others, to suppport them, thus giving money to this league. But please, don't even try to call any post stupid after all the nonsense you've said in the military PC&E thread, among other threads.
I think People are jumping the gun on this. Unless Chivas USA cuts Casey Townsend\Dan Kennedy\other non Mexican players for not having Mexican ties then I don't really have a problem with Chivas trying to field a mostly Mexican team. I don't see much of a difference between what they are doing and the Canadian teams reaching to get Canadian players. Long story short I don't think a trading Labrocca for Avila (former CUSA academy player) is enough evidence they are going to go 100% Mexican decent. It'll be interesting if they make legit effort at signing Ben Spencer. (best HG prospect trialing around Europe) That being said Economics kind of dictates that their strategy isn't very smart for on the field success unless the Salary cap greatly increases. A good soccer player of Mexican decent can make so much more in Mexico than in MLS, I don't see how Chivas could field a competitive squad with only Mexican decent players. The way the rules are setup even if they get some elite prospects in their USA academy, those players are basically free agents to every team in Mexico. So they really don't even have a guarantee that a theoretical Mex American Messi in their Academy actually ends up at the mothership. Their new perceived Farm Team mentality is way more troubling than their desire to field mostly players of Mexican decent. Just my two ill thought out cents.
Here's an idea. Have MLS institute a "Heritage Roster." For each team in MLS, there would be 4 individual international slots and a heritage roster consisting of a block of 4 international slots from one country. The team could choose a country of focus for each heritage roster they owned. Obviously we'd have to figure out how these are distributed up front, maybe you can trade in 3 int'l slots for a heritage roster or something like that. It's a sister city concept, really, that would promote focused interchange with clubs and players from that country, and engagement with a particular segment of the community. Chicago would probably pick Poland, NE might pick Ireland, RB - based on their recently displayed acumen - would pick Faroe Islands, and Chivas would pick Mexico. Chivas could then go out of their way to acquire multiple heritage rosters in order to facilitate exchanges with the mother ship, Which they would likely do. At that point, we're probably talking more about nationality as the discriminatory factor, which is built into the MLS system with int'l slots anyway, and the issue goes away. Two more ill-thought out cents. Eventually we'll be able to afford a pez dispenser.
Maybe? I did say it was ill-thought-out. But what's the difference between this and having someone from x country taking up an international slot at all? The point of an international slot is that it gives you an option while limiting you to use American players by its very existence, so someone really only has the same complaint as with any other international slot.. "I'm an American and I was cut because the team unjustly got someone else from another country to take my spot!!!" Just because you hold a heritage roster, wouldn't mean you'd be required to use any of the slots, or that you couldn't change the country at any time to fit the makeup of your roster. You pick up two guys from Spain and only have one guy from any other country, and you can declare your heritage roster to cover individuals from Spain. It's just a group of international slots. I guess the teams could legally complain that MLS limits international acquisitions at all..? I come down on the side of "we're a country of immigrants, let's celebrate our heritages (and the heritages of others)." It adds a dimension to the game that reflects life back at us in a way that helps us process our differences and commonalities. It's healthy. Look at how much discussion this one topic has generated. Ya, the way Chivas has gone about it has rubbed me the wrong way. But I'm willing to admit the differences are mainly semantic, and the legalities are very technical. Love it or hate it, Chivas is a topic of discussion.
Chelis is just Chelis. MLS has all the rights to players that sign with Chivas USA. MLS wouldn't allow Vergara to send the best players from ChivasUSA to Guadalajara for nothing unless they are out of contract. LigaMex teams always lure Chivas USA academy players down south or academy players choose to play in Mexico. At this point i think Chivas USA players have a better chance of making the USMNT than El tri.