Chinese Super League/AFC Champions League 2012

Shenshua gives up on Upson and signs Brazilian centerback Moises Moura Pinheiro:

http://sports.sina.com.cn/j/2012-02-17/20165947165.shtml

 

Drogba wants to stay in Chelsea:

http://sports.sina.com.cn/j/2012-02-17/21445947204.shtml

 

Nanchang to relocate to Shanghai, renamed to Shanghai Shenxin:

http://sports.sina.com.cn/j/2012-02-18/06505947436.shtml

 

As a part of my job, I've been watching some 30-40 CSL-games from last season over the past few weeks, and it really surprises me to see how physically rough and aggressive some of the players are.

Before I say more, I wanna point out that this is not an attempt at bashing Chinese football or China in general ( although my nickname says Nippon I'm actually from Norway and I live in Sweden), but just some viewpoints made from my observations that I wanna check with others.

Whenever I've seen CSL-teams against Japanese clubs in ACL as well as the China NT when they play Japan, it has seemed to me that the Chinese sides have taken the match much more seriously and put more feelings into the game than their Japanese counterparts, and thus at times played quite rough. I understand the reasons why some Chinese would have problems with Japan or Japanese sides due to the bitter history between the two countries, but that is not what I want to discuss now.

I always thought it was the "hate" towards Japan that caused the "roughness", but based on all the matches I've seen from CSL now it seems its exactly the same when two Chinese sides meet as well?

In almost every single match there are numerous mass brawls, players protesting on calls made against them almost constantly and compared to other leagues seemingly a lot more rogue play. So my question is then to you who follow the league regularly is this normal in CSL?

A lot have been said about "The little Emperor-syndrome" in China due to the 1-child policy, and I've been wondering if that can be addressed to this particular situation as well? Because it can look like some of the players can't take no for a no, and behave like exactly that: A "spoiled" little Emperor. Even a seasoned journeyman like Li Weifeng acted like this, so I was really surprised. I don't mind physical football, and I'm sure a lot of clubs from J.League could learn a thing or two from CSL-clubs in that manner, but somewhere there's got to a be a limit too imho.

Again, before we start a forum fight, I want to once again express that my intentions here are not to bash CSL or China, but I'd like to know your views on this.

Cheers

 

What is your line of work? I don't think even Chinese political prisoners are subject to such cruel and unusual punishment!

First, you bring up a very interesting point and do so in a respectable way, I can't imagine this turning into a forum fight based on this post.

There is a general lack of sportsmanship in Chinese soccer, it includes the constant crowding the ref and faking injuries (something I've complained about on my blog http://wildeastfootball.net/2011/04/what-i-hate-about-the-csl/), and bitching for fouls to be called. As a regular watcher of the league, fights don't happen as often as you say, but in almost every match there will be an incident which leads 3-4 players to crowd the ref looking for a call.

This lack of professionalism/lack of sportsmanship extends beyond football, it also exists in basketball too. However it's rare to see outside of these sports. I think part of it also has to do with a lack of professionalism when it comes to referees. It's a true crap shoot what kind of referee you're going to get and how he's going to call the game, there's been more than one time I've watched a game and knew in the first 20 minutes that things would get out of hand because of how loose the ref was calling it.

I think connecting things to the one child policy and the generation of spoiled children is interesting and may even account for some of the bad behavior, but at the end of the day its due mostly to professionalism (or the lack thereof) and the softness of referees.

 

Looks like Jiangsu Sainty lost to Partizan 2-0 yesterday in a friendly.

 

When I watch Chinese football the obvious comparision I make is that the playing style is simular to that of the English leagues i.e. height, strength and speed is much more important then skill and possession, which Latin teams are more famed for. While I'm not comparing the Chinese Super League to that of the English Prem I am comparing the CSL to that of the English league 25 or 35 years ago, where players were allowed the back tackle and total football was still unheard of outside the Netherlands.

The CSL is certainly a physically rough league, there are hardly any playmakers within China and because of this most players compensate for this by being tougher to the opposition.

As for your comments that there are numerous mass brawls I could be cynical and state compared to who? the Spainish where Real Madrid and Barca kicked the crap out of each other last season, the English where racism looks like its come back or Egypt where they burnt the stadium down. However I am assuming that what you meant is why is there a lack of respect with refereeing within Chinese football, the reason for this being that after so many match fixing scandles within Chinese football and especially the ones involving referees, have really hurt their profession, the CFA still hasn't done enough to help improve refereeing, either professionally or their image.

While finally your assessment of "The little Emperor-syndrome" seems to be the one that I believe you're most correct about, I do think that too many players don't know that no means no. I've also heard several other theories about how these little Emperors have affected Chinese football for the worst. The most interesting one I've heard of is that because these people don't have any siblings they lack certain natural talents that they would have learnt during childhood such as leadership, competitiveness and creativity.

 

Haha, I'm a kind of a sportswriter for a Scandinavian company/website, and up until last year I was only focusing on Japanese football. But this season I will cover some Chinese, Korean and Australian football as well, so that's why I've been watching old CSL-matches, to get an opinion about it=) I think CSL is just as entertaining as many other leagues, so I don't see it as a "punishment", although I understand why some would think of it in that way^^

I'm glad we can have a normal discussion about this, and not a fight=) I'm just being careful as I've seen so many fights start from harmless quotes when people from the Korean board wrote something on the Japanese board, or the other way around, so I was just taking some precautions=)

Yeah, you're probably right about the lack of sportsmanship/professionalism being the biggest problem. With professional football still being very new in China I guess its only natural that problems occur, but as far as I know it wasnt like this in K.League and J.League when that started. So then we're back to the question of why things seemingly gets so "out of hands" in China compared to those leagues?
Im not saying K.League and J.League are perfect in any ways, but due to them being established some years before the CSL I guess its still ahead in atleast certain areas.

Interesting what u're saying about the referees though. Perhaps inviting foreign referees or take part in a referee-exchange project with some other countries like Australia or somewhere in Europe would be a good idea? Every year there are about 5-6 matches in Japan that has foreign referee, and I guess that is something that have helped improve the level of Japanese referees ( which still is pretty low overall).

 

Yeah, at times I got a feeling I was watching Championship football ( which I also get when i watch A.League) due to the physical style and lack of skills as you put it. So you think CSL is some 20-30 years behind EPL or European football in certain areas?

I've also noticed the lack of playmakers, and the vast difference between China and JApan in that manner. Where Japan almost have too many good "playmakers" ( up until recently, it has more or less been the only position that Japanese players have succeeded at in Europe), I've barely seen any Chinese players have the same impact. On the top of my head, Shao Jiayi is I guess the closest thing you've had ?

Yeah, I'm not saying that other leagues are necessarily better, but as you say, the lack of respect for the referee seems to be a bigger problem in China. As Chengb02 said, it probably has something to do with the lack of professionalism/quality of the referees, but can also be connected to the match-fixing scandals yes.

Yeah that's exactly what I meant. That the players doesnt seem to take no for a no. What u're saying about lack of leadership,competitiveness,creativity etc is also very interesting I think.
Btw, I saw a very interesting documentary 1-2 year ago about this very issue thats called "Please vote for me". I think its on youtube if anyone is interested.

 

While I'm not going to state my reputation on being an expert in 1970's or 1980's football because of my age, from the numerous Classic games I've caught on British tv as well as my own collection of classic Arsenal games I do get the impression that I was watching a current CSL game. So yes I do think that the CSL is 20 to 30 behind the EPL particularly in tempo, professionalism and skill.

I've been bitchin about the lack of playmakers within the CSL for years outside Shao Jiayi I can only think of Deng Zhuoxiang, Cao Yunding and Wang Xinxin after that I'm struggling.

Personally I would like to be optimistic with the Chinese refereeing situation, they're currently imprisoning a bunch of Chinese refs for match-fixing. Maybe this might instill some confidence within the players, however we won't find out until the beginning of the new season.

Yeah I've caught "Please vote for me", its a fascinating doc and I guess elections are just as cut throat, nomatter how old you are or where you're from.

 

I've said many times, the problems of Chinese society are all mirrored in Chinese soccer. Whether it be corruption, coverups, short cuts, etc all these issues that affect Chinese society as a whole are also prevalent in Chinese soccer. Chinese society nowadays is all about finding a shortcut and ignoring the consequences if there's a possibility of getting something you value. You see this in soccer too, bitch, moan, whine and maybe the ref might not give you this call, but you'll get the next one.

Also, look at how respectful and orderly Japanese society is, is it any surprise the players would be that way with a referee? Whereas China,in many ways, is lacking in order or respect. Is it any surprise none of the players respect the referee?

Then again, there are times when the referee makes seriously laughable decisions, so its also easy to understand why nobody respects them here.

I watch a few CSL games a week and I can only think of 3 real "mass brawls" from last season, I don't think they happen that much, at least not any more than any other league. But going back to my original post, what you do see at least once a match is 3-5 players in the referee's face complaining about a call. This is behavior that the league really needs to cut down on.

China's been doing this for a few seasons already, bringing in ACL level referees for a number of matches a year. Those games tend to be better called and more orderly, but not always.

 

Lack of a finalized schedule is really starting to make me nervous. I've been checking this site multiple times a day (as well as WEF) hoping to see some news.

 

My advise? Relax! We'll update the schedule on WEF immediately as we have it. I would expect 90% of the schedule we posted to be correct. There may be some juggling of Nanchang and Shenhua games so that only one team is in Shanghai each matchday, but that would be about it.

Other than that the only other change that looks likely is Guoan's home match against Fuli on matchday 1 will definitely be changed to a road game. The Guoan match a week later against Shenhua may also become a road game, though this has yet to be confirmed. The reason? Beijing needs to be at it's most "harmonious" during the Two Meetings and soccer and harmony don't mesh...so much for Xi being a football fan...

 

I'm telling ya, the one-child policy is also a reason. Kids are brought up spoiled these days. Just look at the idiot that got the red card against Kuwait yesterday. I don't think I've ever seen a Japanese player done that.

 

tried to watch it on sopcast...it's very buggy....
put cctv 5 back on.
didnt see the match on either of the sites

 

nvm ended up just refreshing it alot lol.
guangzhou wins 2-1 tianjin.
both goals from cleo and tianjin goal from wang xinxin

 

whaaaaaaaaaat? where will he play? how surprising. wasnt gz gonna sign another foreign striker

 

Haha, while ntg does a great service, this is why WEF is still the place you should go for CSL news. Yu has not signed with Guangzhou, he's met with them as well as Dalian Aerbin and an answer is expected this week. Guangzhou is offerring somewhat more money, but Yu is seriously considering the Dalian offer and has met with Li Ming over the weekend.

 

Funny that a mother is trying to sway her son's decision. Aerbin would definitely be the better choice career wise and is where Tianjin would prefer him to go. I've seen a lot of news that this is "close" to being finalized, but like anything involving the CSL, I'm waiting for him to hold up the jersey or at the very least a solid confirmation.