China starts to "Get It"

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Attacking Minded, May 31, 2004.

  1. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    When I think through "what if's" there is only one country that seems to stand head and shoulders above the others in it's inability to understand reality and in it's ability to act on that misunderstanding. That country would be China. Too often I've seen Chinese opinion expressed as something like, "The US really doesn’t care about Taiwan. If we look like we are launching a credible and full attack then they will draw back and have to accommodate the new reality." In other words, the same sort of thinking that has caused many other wars. We now have this article from the AP,

    Thank goodness it's starting to sink in. Even if they believe our leaders don’t really believe in the idea of human rights at least they understand that that is a tool which motivates American voters. The US does not need an economic or other self-interest to defend Taiwan. In fact, a full attack on Taiwan would probably motivate the US to liberate all of China from dictatorship.
     
  2. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    I don't want to start WW3, possibly get nuked, and/or spend TRILLIONS, to save Taiwan or "liberate all of China."
     
  3. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    You must be a terrorist-loving commie pinko.
     
  4. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    That would put you in the minority on either the globalist or idealist spectrum. When idealism and pragmatism have the same objective, America acts.
     
  5. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    Wow, you really do believe this crap, don't you?
     
  6. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    I fail to see how fighting one of the most powerful armies on the planet and risking a nuclear exchange over Taiwan is pragmatic.
     
  7. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Because it's bad for business when free economies go under.

    Anyway, we have this from the WaPo, if you can beleive it,

     
  8. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    I don't believe any news unless I read it on Newsmax.com or I hear it on Rush or Bill O'Reilly.
     
  9. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I already asked in another thread, he said really, really!

    Further inquiry is redundant.
     
  10. minorthreat

    minorthreat Member

    Jan 1, 2001
    NYC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    No, actually, the US DOES need an economic or other self-interest to defend Taiwan - or do you not realize just how heavily realism informs our foreign policy? And for the record, that self-interest isn't there. If push came to shove, we'd huff and puff and make a big noise over Taiwan, but actual military action? Don't be ridiculous. It may be bad for business if free economies go under, but not nearly as bad for business as great power war.
     
  11. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    So said Japan in 1941.
     
  12. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    We have pledged to defend Taiwan from Chinese attack. If China calls and we show that we're just bluffing, what kind of message does that send to our allies and potential allies around the world--in places like, say, the Middle East?
     
  13. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    huh? America's actions in the last couple of years post 9-11 have been dictated by neo cons.....i doubt idealism is part of trheir vocabulary....
     
  14. minorthreat

    minorthreat Member

    Jan 1, 2001
    NYC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    That's an inappropriate analogy and you know it. Last I checked, we weren't occupying Taiwan, so stop trying to be cute with the Second World War analogies.
     
  15. minorthreat

    minorthreat Member

    Jan 1, 2001
    NYC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    That's why it's called the credibility paradox.
     
  16. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    :rolleyes: You and USATaliban need to get a room.
    That is such a terrible analogy. Pearl Harbor was a declaration that Japan intended to take control of English, French AND American interests in the Pacific. They wanted to dominate the whole region. A Chinese attack on Taiwan is no such thing. What, are they planning on using it as a springboard to attack the Phillippines?
     
  17. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Apparently Japan had something to do with 9-11 as well. And not the kamakazie thing, a whole different thing. A new one. This is really fun.
     
  18. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Is defending Taiwan if China invades really a partisan issue?

    If China invaded England, would we think twice before defending them?

    Liberate China? How many Chinese citizens want to be liberated?

    I have a number of Taiwanese friends who don't "get it" - and believe we wouldn't keep our promise and come to their rescue.
     
  19. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    How many bad analogies to WWII are you capable of making?

    Read a book.
     
  20. minorthreat

    minorthreat Member

    Jan 1, 2001
    NYC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I don't think it's a left/right issue so much as a realist/liberal/constructivist issue. I'm a realist. Defending Taiwan militarily doesn't make sense in terms of sheer cost/benefit ratio.
     
  21. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    Is president Attacking Minded going to attack China?

    Why does he hate America?
     
  22. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    What is the sheer cost? Taiwan won't need any democracy training if we "liberate" them. If China invaded England, would you also engage in this strict cost/benefit analysis? To be honest, this sounds like "I told you so" righteousness over Iraq gone wrong (emphasis on sounds like, I have no idea where you stand).
     
  23. minorthreat

    minorthreat Member

    Jan 1, 2001
    NYC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    The cost is whatever cost you'd associate with going to war with China, a nuclear-armed state with the world's largest standing military, in it's own backyard. Make of that what you will, but I'd think it'd be pretty significant. Iraq has nothing to do with it - and yes, if the UK was attacked, I'd say the same thing, minus the "in their backyard" bit.
     
  24. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    Talking fighting with China make these feeble conservatives feeling hard down there again. What miserable lots.

    Too bad USSR no longer exists.
     
  25. Coach_McGuirk

    Coach_McGuirk New Member

    Apr 30, 2002
    Between the Pipes
    Would there even be a debate on whether or not to assist England in any scenario??? Of course not. England is a member of NATO and we've pledged to act as if any attack on a NATO member is an attack on the US. There might be a 30 second debate on defending Taiwan, but we've had an understanding that we would defend them for so long that I don't think the US could possibly NOT go to war, simply to save face.
     

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