CHILE vs España, 2 de septiembre en Saint Gallen (R) (Amistoso)

I hope you're not entirely blaming the ref for the loss???

 

Muchas cosas que descatar...
1. Bravo, Isla y Bose volvieron a su mejor forma
2. Me gusto Vidal como alternativa en defensa aunque a veces arriesga mucho y al final perdió el control
3. Vargas mostró que si es una muy buena alternativa adelante

Lo que no me gustó
1. El gran bajón en el segundo tiempo y la poca reacción del equipo y Bichi
2. Seymour...
3. El descontrol al final

En realidad no me molesta mucho el resultado si es que aprendimos antes del partido con Argentina.

 

Una cosa mas...
Creo que va ser importante que Sánchez haga un par de goles mas con Barcelona para que entre en confianza.

 

Sabes que compa, toy totalmente de acuerdo que somos una de las mejores selecciones del mundo en términos de fútbol y de táctica. En todo lo que es mental, nos falta crecer mucho si es que queremos llegar a ser temidos como equipo. En mi opinión es la diferencia entre nosotros y los equipos grandes ahora.

Pero con la cabeza en alto todo se puede. Perdimos hoy, ganaremos mañana. Así es el fútbol.

 

no, just for those two specific goals...

i wouldn't expect Spain to not react to Chile's first half dominance....a tie would have been a fair result.

Vargas not being able to continue, Seymour's lack of form, and Spain's talents (Iniesta especially) are what turned the game deciseively in the second half....the referee's bad calls are what led to the two specific goals

 

excellent post...i'd add that this was one of the first times that the Carmona-Medel duo looked so strong

 

Agree on that one too.

 

Independiende lo malo del arbitraje, hay que reconocer un par de errores: No puede Chile echarse atras como lo hizo en el segundo tiempo, en especial los primeros veinte minutos, eso fue fatal. Vidal, no puede perder la "cabeza" como la perdio al final con Iniesta, si bien este ultimo lo provoco tambien.

El primer tiempo de Chile, ademas de los dos goles , debe ser lo mejor que ha mostrado Chile con Borghi al mando, a tal punto que nos debimos haber ido con un 3-0 en ventaja, en otras palabras podriamos haber cerrado el partido ahi mismo. Nos falta ese "instinto matador."

Conclusiones positivas: Eduardo Vargas, demostro ademas del gol, que puede ser una alternativa valida en las eliminatorias, sobre todo considerando las constantes lesiones de Suazo y Pinilla.
Isla al fin volvio a ser factor importante por la derecha, ademas del golazo que se mando. Bravo, pese a los goles, tambien se vio solido y no dio rebotes como en la copa america.

 

Ficha del partido

http://www.cooperativa.cl/chile-des...del-mundo/prontus_nots/2011-09-02/174230.html

España (3): Iker Casillas (46' José Reina); Sergio Ramos, Raúl Albiol, Javi Martínez, Alvaro Arbeloa; Sergio Busquets, Xabi Alonso (46' Andrés Iniesta), Xavi Hernández (63' Cesc Fábregas); David Silva (79' Santi Cazorla), David Villa (46' Pedro Rodríguez), Alvaro Negredo (63' Fernando Torres). DT: Vicente del Bosque.

Chile (2): Claudio Bravo; Arturo Vidal, Pablo Contreras, Gonzalo Jara; Mauricio Isla (83' Fernando Meneses), Gary Medel (88' Marco Estrada), Carlos Carmona, Jean Beausejour (78' Felipe Gutiérrez), Jorge Valdivia (85' Fabián Orellana); Alexis Sánchez, Eduardo Vargas (58' Felipe Seymour). DT: Claudio Borghi.

Goles: 0-1, 10' Mauricio Isla (CHI); 0-2, 20' Eduardo Vargas (CHI); 1-2, 55' Andrés Iniesta (ESP); 2-2, 70' Cesc Fábregas (ESP); 3-2, 92' Cesc Fábregas (ESP).

Amarillas: Silva (ESP), Valdivia, Sánchez, Vidal, Carmona (CHI).
Rojas: Pablo Contreras a los 82'; Jorge Valdivia (estaba en la banca).
Arbitro: Jerome Laperriere de Suiza.

Estadio AFG de St. Gallen.

 

Agreed. Finally another compatriot that admits this. We are really good at blaming the ref, but we can turn an eye when it benefits us. IMO Spain should have had a PK in the first half...so I'm not really moaning too much about that last minute penalty.

What we need to address is the lack of discipline when under pressure. Be smarter to foul, like Carmona, who made some good tackles and only got 1 yellow to show for it. To be fair Medel was also good on this.

I was very disappointed with Contreras. He was having a good game and I would have expected the red to come from Vidal or Medel... Contreras should lead by example. If our more experienced defender can't focus in high pressure situations, then what hope do we have?

I have been saying this for a while now, but I think Chile needs to seriously start looking for players with the mental strength and maturity to handle these situations. We need players with brains and a high game IQ instead of just 11 talented dudes. More balancing is needed in this department.

If we focus and choose our tackles well, we could and should be capable of holding a lead when we are without procession... and even when we are 1 man down.

Remember that Australia v Italy. Italy one man down, hold the Aussie's and manages to win the game and eventually the world cup. Chile would have tanked that and ended in a scuffle with another Chilean player sent off.

Remember Argentina v Uruguay. Perez got sent of early. Chile would have screamed injustice and start crying and complaining and eventually loose 3-1. Uruguay got their chin up, focused, sat tight and waited for their chance. They came back to win that match and eventually Copa America.

If I ever see this Chile win a high pressure game with 1 man down, then I will know they have what it takes to win a tournament/cup whatever.

 

others have mentioned that foul. i watched the game with British tv that said the penalty wasn't called because Negredo was offside...i don't know, doesn't really matter in the end.

I think most people are suggesting that a tie was the fair result. its natural to be frustrated over the last two Spanish goals, and a potentially huge victory that wasn't.

what you say about player mental strength is true, but its important to remember that you can't ask people to be perfect. We applaud Vidal and his 'ahi quedo brasil' mentality, Medel when he went after Xavi in his debut with Sevilla with the "que sucede"...... you have a young team filled with players who hate to lose, and who go hard all the time. you don't want them losing their heads, but you do want them to care.

its not perfect, but i'll take a little hot headedness from players that aren't scared of any rival and look to win everywhere they go.....over the calm and cool guys from before who would shit their pants at the sight of a spanish or argentinian jersey and leave the field thinking losing by only one or two goals was a good result

you take the good with the bad is what i'm saying......

 

Not to be a deadhorse here but if the ref or the linesmen do not call the offsides, it is irrelevant whether the players is actually offsides. In this play specifically, in practical terms Negredo was not off and he should've earned Spain a Pk.

 

That is exactly what I am saying. IMO we don't have the balance right.

We have TOO MUCH hot headedness. Personally I don't applaud those 'ahi quedo..' and 'que sucede' scenarios. Sure I find them fun, but in the long they are more of a weakness than a strength.

Midfield and higher up the pitch I don't care much about how hot headed they are. But in defence and defensive midfield. I want ice cold calculating killers. The 'choros' leave them at the door please. Ponce is usually the coolest. Contreras has maturity on his side, but he let me down against Spain.

Vidal and Medel are a danger... I would not put them anywhere below defensive midfield unless it is an emergency.

Because of our lack of depth in defence we will probably play them there anyway, but Bichi should be sharp to make a change as soon as they are yellow carded.

 

Mi análisis.

Qué se puede decir de este partido? En el fondo, la conclusión más clara es que esta Selección chilena tiene un complejo de "Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde". Qué quiero decir? Lo visto en el 1t. fue diametralmente distinto a lo sucedido en el complemento y si bien es esperanzador, hasta cierto punto es preocupante.

Desde que yo veo fútbol, el 1t. es quizás de lo mejor que he visto jugar a Chile y no me sorprendería si muchos coinciden con esa opinión. Y asimismo, se puede decir que la segunda mitad fue pobrísima y de lo peor que se veía hace muchos años. Como factor "aliciente" se puede considerar la calidad del rival pero sólo con la entrada de A. Iniesta y una torpe decisión de Borghi de retrasar al equipo en el 2t., vimos 2 caras.


Lo bueno.

-El 1t. En todo ámbito Chile se vio bien en el comienzo: atacando con eficacia, y defendiendo bien. Hasta en el fútbol aéreo se notaba una mejora substancial.


Lo malo.

-El 2t. Todo lo que se hizo bien y correctamente al comienzo se fue por la borda en el 2t. Quizás fue la entrada de Iniesta y/o los cambios que dispuso Borghi (sobre todo el de F. Seymour por E. Vargas) pero el asunto es que es casi impresentable que un equipo juegue tan diferente en tan poco espacio de tiempo.


Los goles.

-1ero: * nace de una jugada muy bien elaborada de España, que incluye un foul a C. Carmona. Acto seguido, toda la defensa chilena se paralizando esperando un cobro y C. Fabregas aparece sólo en el medio del área. Eso no se puede dar. Si van a reclamar (los jugadores chilenos), que lo hagan sin perder su posición y retrocediendo.

-2ndo: * gran chute de A. Iniesta. Poco y nada se podía hacer, y nuevamente Chile dejó jugar mucho a España.

-3ero: penal que no existió. Claro que la jugada en tiempo real no le permitía esa licensia al árbitro suizo, que dicho sea de paso tuvo un muy mal partido que de todas maneras no excusa el pobre rendimiento chileno en el 2t.


Uno x uno.

-C. Bravo: muy bien. Contra Francia ya se notaba recuperado anímicamente y ayer lo confirmó. Su mala Copa América ya parece estar en el pasado. Para mi, fue el mejor de todos. 9/10

-A. Vidal: bien. Al igual que todos, tuvo un 1t. perfecto y además en una demarcación que no maneja, líbero. Siempre criterioso, salió jugando, llegó a los cruces y es casi impasable por arriba. Y en el 2t. perdió la cabeza y debió haber visto la tarjeta roja. 7

-P. Contreras: bien. Similar a Vidal, Contreras estuvo impasable y perfecto en el timing en el 1t. No así en el complemento y su roja fue más que justificada: inaceptable, considerando que se supone que es el jugador de mayor experiencia en el plantel. 6.5

-G. Jara: regular. Con su 1t. hizo olvidar su pobre desempeño en la Copa América, incluso vistiéndose de asistidor con un pase magistral a M. Isla en el 1er gol chileno. En la marca estuvo bien y mantuvo su habilidad de salir jugando. Considerando que se esperaba un pobre partido de él, estuvo más que aceptable. 6.5

-M. Isla: bien. No metió un centro ni desbordó con gran peligro pero siempre tocó bien por su lado y se juntó harto tanto con G. Medel como con J. Valdivia. Su gol fue pura clase. 6

-G. Medel: bien. Otro que se desvaneció en el 2t. luego de un 1t. impecable pero la cantidad de balones que recupera y lo que estorba en la contención es siempre un aporte importante. 6

-C. Carmona: bien. Un rendimiento calcado al de Medel pero la cantidad de balones que recupera el volante del Atalanta es hasta increíble a ratos. Es bueno tener 2 opciones tan buenas en este puesto pero creo que Chile se ve mejor con un volante central con un poco más de fútbol, acompañando a uno de estos 2. 6

-J. Beausejour: bien. Nuevamente hace callar las injustas críticas en su contra con su trajín, velocidad y potencia. A S. Ramos lo tuvo de casero todo el 1t. y se pudo haber vestido de héroe con lo que habría sido el 3er y lapidario gol chileno. 6.5

-J. Valdivia: mal. Si bien tocó bastante y siempre pidió la pelota, no estuvo tan bien como contra Francia cuando fácilmente fue el mejor de la cancha. Ayer estuvo muy intermitente y para lo esperado no estuvo a la altura. 4.5

-A. Sánchez: regular. Tuvo una magistral asistencia en el gol de E. Vargas pero aparte de eso, volvió a la mala costumbre de tratar de ganar el partido con jugadas imposibles, encarando a 4-5 rivales. Luego de la asistencia a N. Córdova (vs. Francia) se preveía un Alexis más de equipo. Le sigue faltando madurez. 6.5

-E. Vargas: bien. No estuvo mal para ser primer partido con Borghi pero se nota que aún no se acopla 100% al sistema. Jugadores de su calidad tienden a ser intermitentes y en este caso Vargas mantuvo el estereotipo. De todas maneras, se convierte en un pieza válida para el resto del proceso. 7

-F. Seymour: mal. La idea de Borghi de jugar con 3 volantes defensivos (Medel, Carmona, Seymour) era principalmente para destruirle y cortarle el juego a los españoles. Al final, el bloque defensivo chileno estaba tan atrás que era casi imposible quitarle el balón al rival. Seymour cometió fouls y poco aportó en el quite. 4

-F. Gutiérrez/M. Estrada/F. Meneses/F. Orellana: ninguno de estos alcanzó a hacer algo de relevancia para el análisis. Meneses estuvo involucrado en la jugada del penal cuando al tratar de rechazar Vidal, le rebota el balón a él (Meneses). n/d


Conclusión.

Como ya se mencionó aquí, en un partido contra este tipo de rival no se puede regalar tanto, como lo hizo Borghi en el 2t. Si estaba funcionando el fútbol de ataque, no había para que retrasarse tanto.

Además, se perdió la compostura con mucha facilidad y eso a la larga le va a costar partidos a Chile...a menos que el DT lo corrija. Este problema se centra principalmente en el señor Arturo Vidal.

Y por último, hay que destacar lo positivo: el verdadero baile que se comió España--actual campeón mundial--en el 1t. Este grupo de jugadores chilenos sigue demostrando que le va a jugar de "tu a tu" a cualquiera y consecuentemente se pueden conseguir triunfos importantes plantándose en la cancha de esa manera.


*: no me acuerdo cual de los 2 fue primero.

 

[New to these forums here]

I'm a Chilean living in the Asia-Pacific region and have been watching Chile play since the late 1990s. During this time, I've seen players come and go and the national team change numerous times.

Our premature elimination from the Copa America and this loss against Spain, after being up 2-0, painfully demonstrated how we compare to the big guns of world football.

After all these years, I've come to the conclusion that Chile will never come close to winning any silverware because despite all the talent that we produce year after year, we always desperately lack disciplined and mentally tough players. And this isn’t a matter of under-producing these types; it’s a matter of priority. We are a football country that over-values technical proficiency and flair over the qualities that should come first; the qualities that win you trophies. We can have x5 Sanchez’s and Valdivia’s in our best 23, we can play a quick, gutsy and tactically effective pressing game with plenty of vertigo, we could even get Bielsa back; but it would all be in vain. It would be useless. Call me crazy, but I would take a disciplined and mentally strong player over a technically gifted footballer any day of the week.

It bothers me that some of our finest assets, like Vidal and Medel, lose their cool too quickly in matches of importance. Add to this the ways in which we throw in the towel too early, choke and lose winnable matches, lose our composure in big games against better opponents, and constantly give away ridiculously stupid free-kicks. Why have we still not found a manager to address these issues? To build a successful team capable of challenging for a title and becoming a serious contender, you need to search for players with these qualities first, and if the said qualities are scarce among your players, you need to implement them.

We never, ever learn. We’re passionate, and this fuels our hope, but at the end of the day, it’s only a fool’s hope.

There’s a good chance that we can make it to Brazil in 2014, but our constant stubbornness and inability to build mentally strong and disciplined national teams will always be our downfall. Unless we adopt these mentioned qualities, we will continue to be the team that plays well, but nothing more.

 

Awesome first post. This is what I have been saying for a while now.

One of the great qualities Bielsa had with his system was that the mechanization of certain movements lived little room to creativity, which relies heavily on composure. If your players are not mentally composed, creativity suffers and pressure makes them make bad choices in attack and in defence.

When these choices have already been taken for you and all you have to do is pick one of the available passes, then it takes a big load of the player. He knows where he has to be, where he has to go and where the players around him are.

With Bielsa our weaknesses narrowed down to the lack of proper central defenders. Which is our other big weakness.

If Chile ever wishes to win anything there are two areas we need to address:

1. Lack of a top quality defence.

2. Lack of game IQ (dealing with pressure, handling refs, creative choices, defensive choices, situation awareness, etc).

Not all is doom and gloom though. Chile has already overcome one of the big barriers of ages past. Our lack of speed an mobility. Currently we are one of the most dynamic teams in the world and this is something worth celebrating. I still remember when I used to watch 11 players walking on the pitch.

Now we need to tackle the other 2 points.

 

I think people are overreacting a bit. Yes: there are issues and for anybody to mention them would not mean discovering fire but there are also positives. Chile did not play badly against Mexico: I think the press is making a big deal out of that and against Spain Borghi gifted them one half but Chile played the current world champions off the park.

Usually I am one of the most reserved/conservative/pessimistic posters on here but to me it did not seem like Chile is playing horribly as the press and some of you are making it out to be.

It seems like Vidal's switch to the SW position might benefit the team and all that is missing now is that 9. I am not so certain Pinilla will be the answer "right away" but it's never bad to have too many options. Ultimately, I'd like Suazo to come back into the starting XI (and that will probably happen, too) and with him having regained his fitness, the team should be Ok.

 

Nobody is saying we are playing horribly, we just think Chile needs to address those two other issues mentioned if we wish to make it into the top tier teams and fight with the big boys. At the moment I get the impression that if we play any of the top 8 teams in the world we will come out loosing or with a draw 9 out of 10 times. Regardless of how well we pass it or 'dominate'. We need that extra height and extra intelligence when facing situations of high pressure.

I don't worry so much about dominating or not dominating. I worry about keeping composure regardless weather we had the ball or not. If Chile had been calmer and played the ball more carefully I think we would have kept that lead over Spain easily.

 

I think that when it come down to it there's no denying that there are a number of things to work on, the most important being consistency and maturity.


Overall, as you know, i take a positive view of the NT at this moment in time for the simple reason that despite the inconsistency and apparent lack of maturity at certain times the team has not been overrun by any opponent. in fact, despite it, we seem to be among the best in conmebol (which is what we should be worrying about right now)

Part of the disappointment and frustration comes from the feeling that we deserved more against both Venezuela and Spain, and in truth we did.

In chile there's too much stock put in results. The comments would be very different had we not lost against spain or venezuela, and that's bothersome for me because to a certain extent both losses were affected by poignant refereeing mistakes.


When all you can control is the way you play on the pitch, and without denying that there are things to work on, Chile will be alright.

We lost to Venezuela, but there were two posts, two balls cleared off the line, and a legitimate goal called back by the linesman.

We lost to the best team in the world, but it took 2 highly controversial goals for that to happen.

in the long run, over a two year qualifying process, if you're the better team on the pitch you will be successful. and most of the time in recent history, Chile has been the best eam on the pitch

 

Agreed, when it comes down to "luck", theres nothing Borghi could of done...We are better prepared than some think.